nergal
staff puppet account
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Posts: 46
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Post by nergal on Jan 14, 2020 20:55:00 GMT -5
Regarding expectations on staff to maintain a certain image: Those expectations never really existed formally. There was a sort of unwritten rule on professionalism and impartiality in official communications, which seemed to hold up most of the time. Staff and former staff were also generally held to a higher standard with respect to how they interacted with the community, but again, obviously, this standard was occasionally broken. When it was followed though, staff often came off as stiff, stern, or uncaring. It also didn't help that staff had legitimately acted that way and players could, often rightfully so, assign that tone to a neutrally-toned message by default, just because they expect staff to be condescending or abusive by default.
Regarding the class system question: I'm kind of surprised how it turned out. The initial 15-class plan was a rough draft, and I wanted to trim the amount of classes down to three groups: a group of combat-focused classes, a group of crafting-focused classes, and a few jack-of-all-trades classes. The focused classes would have had high starting skills (30-40) and skill maximums (90-95), but relatively fewer skills; the jack-of-all-trades classes would have had more skills (think "legacy ranger" amount) but lower starting skills (20-30) and skill maximums (80ish). There probably would've been 7-9 classes in the end if I saw it all the way through. I'm not too familiar with how the classes turned out in the end, since I don't play, but from what I've heard it seems some classes are way more powerful than others, which was not the initial goal of the class revamp at all. I wanted to address that specific problem, actually, to make sure that each class was seen as a viable option for some concept.
Also, it's worth noting that I wasn't a huge fan of classes in general; my preferred system would have involved some sort of skill-picking system or skillset-picking system, but since code limitations meant that wasn't going to happen I ended up working on designing the classes.
Regarding the MMH system: I think it was well intended but overly complicated. It was a part of the game before I joined staff, so I wasn't involved in its design. It seemed to encourage players to spend an unhealthy amount of time on the game to achieve results. It was also very narrow, since the system could only be seen through to the end for trade-focused groups and there was no established pathway to, say, make a clan that doesn't dwell in any of the cities/towns. If I had been more involved with the independents team I'd probably have done something to revamp it, I just don't really know what. I'd probably have started with making it more generalized, so that the system didn't only support legally-sanctioned Houses but things like gangs, new tribes, and full-blown raider groups.
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Post by shakes on Jan 14, 2020 21:17:58 GMT -5
I had to look through my old emails to ever find any interactions we had, Nergal. You have me a karma point for my play with Stonejaw, a Kadian hunter, and some Christmas kudos back in 2016. You were never the face of any of the big blowups I've had with staff.
In some ways, I find your post extremely interesting, but in other ways it's very disheartening.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Jan 14, 2020 21:18:56 GMT -5
A full-blown raider group was founded in Red Storm, by players (I hope). It's pretty neat but, kind of removes a certain something at the same time. There was work put into founding a gang on the east side, but that has a tendency of falling apart at the seams because inevitable conflict with organizations that simply cannot be resisted due to, er, environmental factors.
EDIT: I remember Stonejaw (I think?), he was cool
EDIT 2: No, this isn't just about the Kings... more came after that. There's literally no way to get around the Guild if they don't have someone sensible and capable of negotiation around. Mostly you get a bunch of hard-asses that have to be disposed of, over, and over again, until that one magical time, then they get templar'd or something and it starts anew.
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vex
Clueless newb
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Post by vex on Jan 15, 2020 2:19:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the response.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Jan 15, 2020 13:30:52 GMT -5
If you're still around:
I haven't really seen an acknowledgement from staff, that there is an issue with player retention/recruitment, or indeed, that there are any 'real' problems at all.
With some perspective from past times on staff, and an overview of the various dramas that plague both staff vs staff, player vs player, and staff vs player, what kind of changes could potentially be made, at any level, to ease communication troubles, and spur some change in a more positive direction? Players have a lot of ideas on this, and unsurprisingly, they tend to conflict with each other, my own included, no doubt due to a combination of personal investment and differences of wants/desires/opinions.
Active staff, likewise, seem anchored to their own bias and desires, and are in the thick of it, having to (ideally) balance workload with having time to partake in the game as players.
I'd think that, former staff, having been away from the stress and toxicity of the 'arm working environment', but having seen things from that birds eye perspective, might have a less clouded perspective on the current state of the game, and what might be done to better it.
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nergal
staff puppet account
Noted Liar
Posts: 46
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Post by nergal on Jan 15, 2020 15:53:39 GMT -5
If you're still around: I haven't really seen an acknowledgement from staff, that there is an issue with player retention/recruitment, or indeed, that there are any 'real' problems at all. With some perspective from past times on staff, and an overview of the various dramas that plague both staff vs staff, player vs player, and staff vs player, what kind of changes could potentially be made, at any level, to ease communication troubles, and spur some change in a more positive direction? Players have a lot of ideas on this, and unsurprisingly, they tend to conflict with each other, my own included, no doubt due to a combination of personal investment and differences of wants/desires/opinions. Active staff, likewise, seem anchored to their own bias and desires, and are in the thick of it, having to (ideally) balance workload with having time to partake in the game as players. I'd think that, former staff, having been away from the stress and toxicity of the 'arm working environment', but having seen things from that birds eye perspective, might have a less clouded perspective on the current state of the game, and what might be done to better it. I'm a believer in the idea that easing communication troubles goes hand-in-hand with rebuilding trust. And I'm not just talking about player trust in staff, but also staff trust in players, and staff trust in other staff, and player trust in other players. And that starts with laying out the benefits of having a more trusting community: when staff trust each other, they're more inclined to work together. When players trust each other, they're more inclined to involve PCs whose players they don't know in plots. And when staff and players trust one another, good communication should occur naturally. So the question leads to how to build trust. And I think trust-building starts with systemic change. Here are a few ideas on that: 1) Public accountability for staff communications towards players that are out of the ordinary seems like it should be a priority, in light of all the recent news about the game. 2) Either staff PCs should be clearly marked, or staff should be restricted to playing NPCs, because far too many staff have benefited from the conflict of interest that arises between playing and staffing and there isn't any other realistic way to prevent that. Sometimes this is purposeful, but oftentimes it is incidental or accidental. Individual staff members can't control the information they take in as much as they like to think they can, and by extension the line between ICly known information and information gleaned from being a staff member is often blurry. I know this from experience and from observing other staff members play the game. I understand and support the idea that staff have the right to enjoy the fruits of their labor, but something has to be done to ensure that staff are joining the team for the right reasons: to support and improve the game. 3) Some sort of player liaison role between staff and players to mediate any disagreements and engage in conflict resolution makes sense in theory, although it can't be done without changing other aspects of staff behavior and culture. Otherwise it simply adds an extra layer to shield staff from responsibility for abuses. I may have more detailed thoughts on this subject later, but that's what I have for now. |
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Post by Azerbanjani on Jan 15, 2020 16:03:39 GMT -5
nergalWhat would you think if staff lost the ability for them to play PC's but were incredibly encouraged, or almost required, to play clan NPCs that they normally wind up animating anyway? So instead of: The staffer having a soldier character and 3 other shmucks they play a Red Robe or a Lieutenant. They probably don't play as much as your average 'On for 5 hours every day' player but they hop on 2-3 times a week and do shit
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on Jan 15, 2020 16:09:24 GMT -5
nergal yeah hes talking abt shit from this post armageddonmud.boards.net/post/39455staff get encouraged and expected to animate their clans npc leaders more when it comes to handling most major ic communications to leader pcs and to show more of an occasional presence and leave the ooc comms stuff offline where it belongs as before they can also animate their clans npcs to interact with players in numerous ways as they like now if theyre allowed to play pcs then staff are only permitted to play pcs that fulfill limited nongamebreaker purposes and rolecalls such as gladiators tuluk saboteurs and others that require rp ability and trust to execute some of the railroadier plots and good-in-theory-but-cringier-in-practice theme ideas that players wont have to worry abt leaving unfulfilled both of these let staff continue to play literally as much as they like and taste the food while removing the key factor causing them to play in bad faith which is identifying too much with their chars and overinvesting their ego into their fates
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nergal
staff puppet account
Noted Liar
Posts: 46
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Post by nergal on Jan 15, 2020 16:10:11 GMT -5
nergal What would you think if staff lost the ability for them to play PC's but were incredibly encouraged, or almost required, to play clan NPCs that they normally wind up animating anyway? So instead of: The staffer having a soldier character and 3 other shmucks they play a Red Robe or a Lieutenant. They probably don't play as much as your average 'On for 5 hours every day' player but they hop on 2-3 times a week and do shit Seems like a good idea, both because it would increase the number of animations significantly and, in the case of some sort of reasonable requirement around this, it would outline that staff members who volunteered to do a specific job are required to do what they agreed to volunteer for. |
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 15, 2020 16:12:07 GMT -5
In your experience what was it like for someone to leave staff and come back?
I ask because part of the NO PC policy normally has an exception like, go on hiatus for a joy ride on PCs and come back to staffing. Is there any reason this hiatus approach could not work within Armageddon's system, there are staff rotations which could be used to onboard and offload staffers right?
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nergal
staff puppet account
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Posts: 46
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Post by nergal on Jan 15, 2020 16:15:01 GMT -5
In your experience what was it like for someone to leave staff and come back? I ask because part of the NO PC policy normally has an exception like, go on hiatus for a joy ride on PCs and come back to staffing. Is there any reason this hiatus approach could not work within Armageddon's system, there are staff rotations which could be used to onboard and offload staffers right? I think it could work in a reasonable hierarchy, but at the end of the day, keeping the current system maintained with staff rotating in and out regularly is all about numbers. I can't imagine there are many more players who both would make good staff members (in the context of not abusing their power and also being hard workers) and are also willing to join the team. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 17:29:26 GMT -5
Good Evening, Nergal.
I'll preface this post with an apology, because it does sort of end up sounding hostile. But, in my opinion, the post rises pretty hostile events. Hostile enough that I do not think a 'blanket apology' suffices. You talk of failures of multiple staff, but I feel you tend to gloss over certain deeds you yourself have performed out of your own volition, unless I am somehow mistaken. Please correct me. Would you be willing to speak more about these events and what was your train of thoughts? I might be mistaken on some others, so clarifications would be welcome.
Things like when you animated a mul who one shot killed half of the player made clan in the middle of Hathors. What was going through your mind? Why did you do this? Why did you think that was a proper course of action?
When a sorcerer (ran by Blaze) gathered self inside a tent that was described as empty, with no soldiers outside. The soldiers were animated to gather closer in and attack the sorcerer, killing him. Do you still believe this was an adequate response?
When a player ran inside the cavern where an Ankheg lived, only to run out, then come back to try again, and escape when shit got sour. The ankheg was transferred past the exit of the cavern which was too small for an ankheg to fit in (Ankheg was theoretically imprisoned there), so he could catch that character. Do you believe this was an adequate course of action?
When Aniah's character was harassed, against the theme of the game. You rejected her complaints and even animated an NPC to reinforce the harassment. Do you believe you're justified in doing these things still?
This is what comes to my mind at the moment. I might've forgotten others, or misremembered these somehow, somewhere.
There might be more to these stories. I do not know. But I'd be curious to learn your thoughts about these. Now that you're not trapped by the need to be stoic and infallible.
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nergal
staff puppet account
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Posts: 46
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Post by nergal on Jan 15, 2020 18:22:30 GMT -5
@qwerty, I already explained the mul situation to the best of my ability.
As I recall, Blaze's sorcerer was in a populated area in Cenyr while gathering, and was practicing magic in a tent, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Sounds like you got one half of a story.
I also have no idea what you're talking about regarding the ankheg. I ran a plot related to ankhegs, but I can't even recall a time where anything remotely like what you described happened. Sounds like you got one half of a story.
I also didn't animate an NPC to harass Anaiah. Not only do I have no idea about any event like that happening, I can't imagine a situation where I would have motive to do that.
Ultimately it seems like you're asking me "when did you stop beating your wife?" but in a few different ways, so I'm going to stop replying to those kinds of questions now.
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Jan 15, 2020 18:39:47 GMT -5
Never had any dialogue or anything with you Nergal but you've earned my respect for having the guts to come here and share your thoughts. I don't think you need to apologize to anyone but if you think you do that's all that matters.
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Post by shakes on Jan 15, 2020 18:46:10 GMT -5
I don't know why Qwerty went from "haha that's not the real Nergal" to suddenly attacking him for past actions.
Don't sweat it, Nergal. We cool.
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