nergal
staff puppet account
Noted Liar
Posts: 46
|
Post by nergal on Jan 14, 2020 15:53:26 GMT -5
I appreciate your comments about the TMC situation. You often discuss a feeling of not enough manpower/being to thin at staff for different activities. Can you elaborate on what you mean by that? Many other games are able to service very large player populations with less staff than Armageddon has traditionally had. Is there something about RPIs that make it more time consuming? Something about how stuff was handled on the back end? I think a better way for me to describe staff being short-handed is that the system that Armageddon uses to staff the game was short-handed. Of course, compared to other games Armageddon's system was pretty inefficient. I think the other MUDs I tried after Armageddon - Haven, Sindome, and Arx - had far fewer staff members compared to Armageddon, but there also seemed to be more going on and more communication between players and staff. So the focus of recruiting staff becomes filling gaps on the team. What's probably way more beneficial is a general reshuffle to get unproductive members off the team, and more active members to share the burden of staffing the game equally in a system different from the current four-tier system where builders, storytellers, admins, and producers are hyper-specialized. In my experience I think a lot of staff burnout happened on the storyteller level when new storytellers realized just how little of an impact they could have on the game with all the red tape in the way. That said, if you make it to storyteller you're probably competent enough to understand what's appropriate for your clan and the game world. Other games function with staff who work together to achieve consensus on a direction for the game, but for Armageddon there's an arduous process, and I would argue an inefficient process, involved in getting things done. |
|
|
|
Post by lechuck on Jan 14, 2020 17:05:42 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on this? It's something that gets brought up periodically here, but we rarely get an honest account of it. To hear some people tell it, storytellers are constantly pulling out their hair as producers thwart them at every turn. Is it as bad as all that? What's the reason for this red tape, and what do you think of it?
We all know that the discourse on this forum reaches staff's ears one way or another, and this red tape issue is one thing that I suspect is holding Armageddon back a lot. It would be a healthy discussion to have. It's rare that we get someone from the "other side of the fence" who isn't just spewing bullshit, so what's your take?
|
|
|
|
Post by anaiahlation on Jan 14, 2020 17:19:03 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on this? It's something that gets brought up periodically here, but we rarely get an honest account of it. To hear some people tell it, storytellers are constantly pulling out their hair as producers thwart them at every turn. Is it as bad as all that? What's the reason for this red tape, and what do you think of it? We all know that the discourse on this forum reaches staff's ears one way or another, and this red tape issue is one thing that I suspect is holding Armageddon back a lot. It would be a healthy discussion to have. It's rare that we get someone from the "other side of the fence" who isn't just spewing bullshit, so what's your take? Storytellers cannot add new items, NPCs, or rooms to the game, let alone stuff like craft recipes, without direct admin approval. I definitely felt like Nyr as an admin was trying to thwart my efforts. Senga on the other hand was just literally not there, not logging in, not doing things, and actively discouraging my doing things which required her approval. It was very unsurprising to me that she was bounced from or left staff during the first staff rotations when I was on as a storyteller. nergal - tbh rolling storyteller and admin into one sounds like it would have done a lot to help the frustration I most commonly had as a storyteller, it sucks to hear that you tried to get that done and it didn't stick. |
|
ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 138
|
Post by ask on Jan 14, 2020 17:31:17 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on this? It's something that gets brought up periodically here, but we rarely get an honest account of it. To hear some people tell it, storytellers are constantly pulling out their hair as producers thwart them at every turn. Is it as bad as all that? What's the reason for this red tape, and what do you think of it? We all know that the discourse on this forum reaches staff's ears one way or another, and this red tape issue is one thing that I suspect is holding Armageddon back a lot. It would be a healthy discussion to have. It's rare that we get someone from the "other side of the fence" who isn't just spewing bullshit, so what's your take? Storytellers cannot add new items, NPCs, or rooms to the game, let alone stuff like craft recipes, without direct admin approval. I definitely felt like Nyr as an admin was trying to thwart my efforts. Senga on the other hand was just literally not there, not logging in, not doing things, and actively discouraging my doing things which required her approval. It was very unsurprising to me that she was bounced from or left staff during the first staff rotations when I was on as a storyteller. nergal - tbh rolling storyteller and admin into one sounds like it would have done a lot to help the frustration I most commonly had as a storyteller, it sucks to hear that you tried to get that done and it didn't stick. Yep. I was incredibly discouraged with the amount of bureaucratic red tape that was required for doing anything. Luckily, Nergal was pretty, 'on the fly,' when it came to allowing me to be creative and run my own plots and he sponsored just about anything I wanted to do. |
|
nergal
staff puppet account
Noted Liar
Posts: 46
|
Post by nergal on Jan 14, 2020 17:43:03 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on this? It's something that gets brought up periodically here, but we rarely get an honest account of it. To hear some people tell it, storytellers are constantly pulling out their hair as producers thwart them at every turn. Is it as bad as all that? What's the reason for this red tape, and what do you think of it? We all know that the discourse on this forum reaches staff's ears one way or another, and this red tape issue is one thing that I suspect is holding Armageddon back a lot. It would be a healthy discussion to have. It's rare that we get someone from the "other side of the fence" who isn't just spewing bullshit, so what's your take? I can try.  That description you've heard is perhaps a bit overblown, but I would say it's not by much. Storytellers had to get approval from admins for most long term plans, especially if it was some sort of plot a PC wanted to start within that storyteller's clan that would require staff assistance somehow, but also if it was a staff-created plot that required building or world changes of any kind. Producers are supposed to be in charge of the general direction of the world. Storytellers had some autonomy, but the line was never clearly defined. This led to the classic problem of a storyteller telling a player they can do something, and the player is told a few weeks or months down the line that they can no longer do it. Because by then, an admin or the producers are paying attention, have done the calculus or simply decided based on a gut feeling that the plot thread isn't one they like. Or a change in staff teams can lead to changes in opinion, as well. The reason for the red tape is ostensibly to make sure that every change to the game is carefully thought out and approved on all levels, but in practice I think it was used to shut some players out of achievements they could conceivably make, while providing the opportunity to older or better-connected players. It's a case of a system being well-intended - in the sense that the theme of Armageddon needs to be preserved - but poorly executed because the inherent limitations in the system are used to blackball certain people, sometimes at the most soul-crushing moment possible, of being essentially done with all the IC work required for a part of a plot that was previously approved. |
|
MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
|
Post by MartenBroadcloak on Jan 14, 2020 18:23:06 GMT -5
this shit is fascinating
please continue
that is all
|
|
|
|
Post by shakes on Jan 14, 2020 18:26:57 GMT -5
Wow.
This is probably the coolest shit I've ever seen on this forum.
Glad you're doing alright, dude. Sounds like you came out on top of it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 18:29:54 GMT -5
Hey Nergal
Could you talk about the east side kings elf gang? At some point a big chunk of them was wiped out by NPC animation? What was the reasoning behind it? How was it done?
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Jan 14, 2020 18:37:26 GMT -5
Welcome to the shithouse! We'd offer some toilet-paper, but Qwerty ate it all.
|
|
nergal
staff puppet account
Noted Liar
Posts: 46
|
Post by nergal on Jan 14, 2020 19:01:49 GMT -5
Hey Nergal Could you talk about the east side kings elf gang? At some point a big chunk of them was wiped out by NPC animation? What was the reasoning behind it? How was it done? Doesn't ring a bell. |
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Jan 14, 2020 19:09:32 GMT -5
I believe Qwerty is asking about the super-statted mul npc that got dropped on our heads that one-shot two-thirds of the gang in seconds.
|
|
nergal
staff puppet account
Noted Liar
Posts: 46
|
Post by nergal on Jan 14, 2020 19:16:21 GMT -5
I believe Qwerty is asking about the super-statted mul npc that got dropped on our heads that one-shot two-thirds of the gang in seconds. If I recall correctly, some elves did some weird stuff in the Folley, the mul guard there was animated and went after the elves, the mul flew into a rage during combat which subsequently boosted its stats, and started smashing people much faster than intended. If that's right then Ath and I were a part of that animation and I believe I was apologetic at the time, but if not, I'll apologize now. (Had to ask Cayuga if she remembered the details.) If we remember all of that right that was clearly pretty heavy-handed and wrong. |
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Jan 14, 2020 19:19:43 GMT -5
I'm unsure of the timing of things, if there was something that happened involving an elf in the folley, I wasn't aware of it but then I was just muscle, it wasn't really my job to know everything. What I do know had happened was we ambushed a newly promoted green bandanna on Hathor's in retaliation for them killing one of our "Nightrunners" in Allanak. A couple minutes after that, while we're in the sinkhole debating what to do with the body and dividing up the loot, a mul with the sdesc of the Red Storm alleys mul (if someone I asked is to be believed) dropped in there and one-shot a five year byn veteran, with a hit to the leg, before turning on the rest of us. No speech, no emotes.
|
|
grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
|
Post by grumble on Jan 14, 2020 20:14:39 GMT -5
That was one of the things that bugged me the most of Arm, not just the lack of player agency (save a blessed few), but that if you weren't some sort of annointed one then the whole system is designed to crush any worthwhile endevour you may persue with a "realistic world response"... and in the case of city elves the only play that isn't looked down upon is failing a steal check in the Gaj and dying in the dungeon. Doesn't leave a lot to aspire to, really.
|
|
vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
|
Post by vex on Jan 14, 2020 20:23:56 GMT -5
Really, it's an interesting thread. Its a unique opportunity that would be impossible to have, normally.
Personally, I'm curious about staff culture, or rather, how staff on Armageddon tend to behave towards players, compared to their contemporaries on similar games. I've found the staff to be very distant, aloof, dismissive of and disconnected from players in general, but especially at the intersection where RP/gameplay meets OOC considerations. However, I have spoken with a few (current) staff outside of the confines of Armageddons official channels and they're almost entirely different, from how they behaved in official interactions.
It strikes me as curious, and I wonder, if there is some kind of formal expectation placed upon staff, wherein they're required to behave a certain way, or maintain a certain image?
I feel one of the biggest hurdles the game faces, is that staff have such a negative reputation, and they seem entirely disinclined to take steps to correct it, despite the fact that I have, in fact, had some pleasant enough interactions with staff- but only outside of official interactions. I'd go as far as to suggest, they often actively reinforce all the negative opinions people have, as a matter of course.
It is, frankly, baffling behavior.
That aside, as I understand it, you were the one who founded the new class system, with Brokr doing to follow up work after your departure. As you can doubtlessly find on either of the games forums, its polarized a lot of people. Some love where you (and Brokr) took it, and some decidedly do not. There is a lot of insinuation that the new system reflects staff personal preferences, or an interest in designing a system that favors specific styles of play.
I don't, personally, see it that way, and I am in general, rather pleased with the variety. Once again, though, its an opportunity to hear from the original designer on such a broad change, without the trappings and limitations imposed by your former position, so if you felt inclined to give some insights on it, it'd be fuel for discussion, if nothing else.
Another one that I see quite often, is the player MMH system: What are your thoughts on it? Its a sore spot for a lot of players, and having some insight on staffs thought process behind its implementation, and reasons for its stiff "time invested" requirements, would probably be welcomed by a great many.
Regardless of if you choose to respond, or not, thank you for sharing what you have so far.
|
|
