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Post by sirra on Dec 30, 2019 18:53:45 GMT -5
i said it before and i'll say it again. if qwerty was at penn state, he'd be covering up for sandusky and claiming that the guy was a net positive for the university because he was a good coach. It wouldn't even be for something vaguely understandable like good coaching. The best analog would be because of his dedication to water conservation by encouraging communal showers.
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Post by shakes on Dec 30, 2019 19:08:00 GMT -5
Hey, don't drag me into this. I know I got rage issues. That goes well beyond this game. HOWEVER, I keep my shit together and don't rage at friends, neighbors, fast food cashiers, etc. I certainly don't bully people over any small amount of power I have in my life.
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164
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Post by tedium on Dec 30, 2019 22:28:22 GMT -5
Sirra just has a axe to grind.
If you meet an asshole in the morning, then you met an asshole. If you meet assholes all day, then maybe you're the asshole.
"X has an axe to grind" against literally every single person who has complained about staff. Maybe you should ask yourself why.
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ShaLeah
Clueless newb
Sooth Saying & Seeking Clueless Vet
Posts: 65
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 31, 2019 1:47:07 GMT -5
ShaLeah Unfortunately... If we accept Shalnooosh really did give access to his discord account. and If we believe that staff are competent enough discord users to check properly. then The conversation with Kaitrena or Katerina or whatever the spelling is would still exist even if it is only one sided. They would just need to go up to the top left side where it lets you search for discussions and you'd enter in her username. The issue is if she has changed her username you'll need to know the first letter to be able to find the old convo. So deleting everything would just remove his side of the convo. Like the things he said, but not her replies nor the timestamp on those replies. Unless he swapped out his entire discord account which is possible which is why the staff would have to check a convo between him and someone else to make sure it backdates to prior to the incident. You can delete your conversation and IF THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND you cannot reopen it unless you share a server and can click on the name to do it. She left the server. He deleted whatever conversation he had. He can't delete the shit WE spoke of because I was kicked off the server.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Dec 31, 2019 2:01:05 GMT -5
Would like to see the Two Moons docs but I don't see it as a success by any means. The game really didn't need some new d-elf clan when there were already plenty of good d-elf clans to play in. There are many other areas of the game that require attention.
It's a good idea, and I liked most of the pcs I've played with, but it's implemented with entirely too much "we're beholden to/fear allanak+luirs", wherein you can, in most situations, assume they're going to tell Allanak/turn you in to Allanak/kill you for Allanak, and be right.
ATM, the entire game is basically Allanak vs indies, and 2moons is no exception, even if that maybe was not the original intention.
They'd have been much more appealing, as a more renegade faction without ties or obligations to outsiders, who do lots of meddling/plotting/sabotaging the major powers and being 'friends' to the less-than-reputable peoples for trade and such. I feel that, Kurac/Luirs, would be better as the bad boy merchant clan, too, instead of the... continuous wet fart, that they exist as now.
Tired of everything being about allanak, in general, though. The game really, really does need, at least one other major power.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 31, 2019 6:25:48 GMT -5
ShaLeah Unfortunately... If we accept Shalnooosh really did give access to his discord account. and If we believe that staff are competent enough discord users to check properly. then The conversation with Kaitrena or Katerina or whatever the spelling is would still exist even if it is only one sided. They would just need to go up to the top left side where it lets you search for discussions and you'd enter in her username. The issue is if she has changed her username you'll need to know the first letter to be able to find the old convo. So deleting everything would just remove his side of the convo. Like the things he said, but not her replies nor the timestamp on those replies. Unless he swapped out his entire discord account which is possible which is why the staff would have to check a convo between him and someone else to make sure it backdates to prior to the incident. You can delete your conversation and IF THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIEND you cannot reopen it unless you share a server and can click on the name to do it. She left the server. He deleted whatever conversation he had. He can't delete the shit WE spoke of because I was kicked off the server. And since it's likely that Kaitrena and Shalooonsh are not friends, but in fact the former blocked the latter for being a creep, it's really no wonder that staff couldn't find evidence of Shalooonsh's discussion with Kaitrena among his private messages. We also have to consider that staff are not necessarily technically adept and may not have checked every nook and cranny while searching Shalooonsh's account. Though I can't help but wonder how many hours Shalooonsh had to spend deleting shit before he turned over his password to the administrators, lol As a side note, I can't help but think what precedent that sets for the other staff. Does every staff member use a "dedicated" Discord account for Armageddon or do some of them use their Discord account for both Armageddon and personal purposes? Staff members have a right to personal privacy, just like anyone else. If you're asked to turn over your password to an account that belongs to you and you refuse, will the Producers just dismiss you from staff? Probably something to think about, staff members reading this, if you use your accounts for anything besides Arm.
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mfduck
staff puppet account
Posts: 19
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Post by mfduck on Dec 31, 2019 9:28:50 GMT -5
There are clearly underlying grudges that are born of deep cuts.
But the staff never pinned the blame of nile for being one of loonish' s harassmen. Nile wasn't banned for that and wouldn't have been banned at all if he hadn't exploded.. Nile was under a justifiable suspicion based on the information that staff had which they cleared without much harassment.. The extra complaint insinuating a shadow board explosion probably set nessalin off, since he probably didn't want to deal with this and has better things to do than try to cater people that uses autism or pedophilia to judge someone they don't knows character. I also think describing arm as a club is fitting.. there's clearly an out crowd, and that's here. It won't ever be anything like a business, because its not a service you pay for.. Would changing anything really make it better? No... What'd make it better is more dialogue on how to make it more inclusive that doesn't exclusively vilify the actual people who could make it so..
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Post by anaiahlation on Dec 31, 2019 9:42:31 GMT -5
The fun part. Is that someone on these boards who caused all this. Provoked staff. Provoked you, Nile. Is laughing and enjoying himself. And you, Nile joined this board and validated ... All of his actions. Now... I'm not saying you're Shalooonsh. Hell, I am not even going to go so far as to say that the particular incident in question is real and happened. But I /am/ going to say that if you /are/ Blaze, the above is funny as fuck, especially if the situation is actually true. Because goddamn the context that would put this post in. I am lawling.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 31, 2019 9:55:39 GMT -5
Okay this is someone I have had a conversation with. I do not share a server with them. As you can see we are not friends. I go up to the top left, search their name and I can bring up the old conversation whether I have deleted all my messages or if they have blocked me. The only thing that stops me (or someone on my account) from checking this is if Zombino over here changes his name thus I no longer know what to search for or they delete their account.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 31, 2019 10:05:00 GMT -5
Would changing anything really make it better? No... What'd make it better is more dialogue on how to make it more inclusive that doesn't exclusively vilify the actual people who could make it so. I would argue that, on an individual level, most of the staff members are not inherently bad people. What is actually bad, that we've actually seen in this thread? - We've seen that staff themselves see individual players as expendable. This has been an attitude that has persisted for years at the top levels of staff and in this particular thread in the form of turning Nile into a scapegoat to, at best, give a false sense of security to a newbie who ostensibly was afraid of returning to the game. When Nile had the gall to protest being scapegoated, he got banned. Not only is Nile affected, but everyone playing around his character was also affected by his character's sudden disappearance. - We've seen that people who defend staff actions on the virtue that staff have the right to do anything they want for their game (or to their game) create incomprehensible discourse at best, and toxic discourse at worst. No one here is arguing that staff don't have the "right" to ban anyone they want from the game, or that players have the "right" to play Armageddon. The staff are welcome to choose and curate their playerbase how they see fit. Just because someone can do something doesn't always mean someone should do something, and just because someone shouldn't do something doesn't always mean they can't do something. Yet we have one person here saying that Nessalin will do anything he wants, even if it's bad for the game's overall health. How are we supposed to interpret this? Nessalin certainly can do this, but is it in the best interests of the game to drive off its players? Who is actually responsible for the game's content: the programmers, the storytellers, or the players? Is there, perhaps, a shared responsibility? - We've seen that when a member of staff makes a mistake, the staff body as a whole circles around to cover up the mistake instead of fix it. Shabago clearly made a number of mistakes: he provided the character and account name of one player to another player without the first player's permission and accused that player of doing something wrong. He explained the matter in an intentionally vague and possibly menacing manner to that other player to leave open the possibility that staff would target her with a ban as well, or at least view her with deep suspicion, if need be. The correct response to Nile was not Nessalin's flippant response that Nile shouldn't believe everything he reads on the internet, but a conciliatory apology signed by both Shabago and one of the Producers stating that Shabago understands he made a mistake and that he will never do it again. What actually needs to change? Staff should consider alternatives to the current staff structure that actually allow players to reconcile with staff by putting a neutral party of mediators between them. People who are neither fully staff nor fully players who can arbitrate when necessary. If staff are interested in inclusiveness then they should explore a means of resolving player-staff conflicts in a neutral manner. If staff can't clear this basic hurdle then it's impossible to expect anything other than continued mismanagement and CYA-style actions.
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najdorf
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 265
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Post by najdorf on Dec 31, 2019 10:18:01 GMT -5
I would argue that, on an individual level, most of the staff members are not inherently bad people. What is actually bad, that we've actually seen in this thread? They are just incapable, which is worse. They are bad at management. If these guys were given a proper company, they would bankrupt it in months. You can't expect such retards to maintain any game, be it a MUD or something else. That's the way it is, a loser is a loser. Previous staff was (10+ years ago) perhaps slightly better at it.
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mfduck
staff puppet account
Posts: 19
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Post by mfduck on Dec 31, 2019 10:31:23 GMT -5
What actually needs to change? Staff should consider alternatives to the current staff structure that actually allow players to reconcile with staff by putting a neutral party of mediators between them. People who are neither fully staff nor fully players who can arbitrate when necessary. If staff are interested in inclusiveness then they should explore a means of resolving player-staff conflicts in a neutral manner. If staff can't clear this basic hurdle then it's impossible to expect anything other than continued mismanagement and CYA-style actions. This is a good idea in theory, as a neutral body of moderators who act as tactful, patient, and reasonable as possible.
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Post by gringoose on Dec 31, 2019 10:35:40 GMT -5
Would like to see the Two Moons docs but I don't see it as a success by any means. The game really didn't need some new d-elf clan when there were already plenty of good d-elf clans to play in. There are many other areas of the game that require attention.
It's a good idea, and I liked most of the pcs I've played with, but it's implemented with entirely too much "we're beholden to/fear allanak+luirs", wherein you can, in most situations, assume they're going to tell Allanak/turn you in to Allanak/kill you for Allanak, and be right.
ATM, the entire game is basically Allanak vs indies, and 2moons is no exception, even if that maybe was not the original intention.
They'd have been much more appealing, as a more renegade faction without ties or obligations to outsiders, who do lots of meddling/plotting/sabotaging the major powers and being 'friends' to the less-than-reputable peoples for trade and such. I feel that, Kurac/Luirs, would be better as the bad boy merchant clan, too, instead of the... continuous wet fart, that they exist as now.
Tired of everything being about allanak, in general, though. The game really, really does need, at least one other major power.
Make the change happen that you want to see. Allanak is supreme over Zalanthas it's true but it doesn't have to be that way. Even in the real world where law and authority are monolithic criminal organizations still operate with varying degrees of success. When a Templar tells a PC to do something they cooperate out of fear and because there are little to no consequences for PCs to cooperate with Templars. What if there were consequences? What if PCs had something to fear if they do cooperate with Templars and instead are forced into a dilemma rather than straight forward compliance? Essentially if more PCs killed PCs that cooperate with with Templars it would open up a lot of possibilites than the standard whole world goes and hunts whoever has been designated to die next by Allanak and rinse and repeat
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Dec 31, 2019 12:32:31 GMT -5
What actually needs to change? Staff should consider alternatives to the current staff structure that actually allow players to reconcile with staff by putting a neutral party of mediators between them. People who are neither fully staff nor fully players who can arbitrate when necessary. If staff are interested in inclusiveness then they should explore a means of resolving player-staff conflicts in a neutral manner. If staff can't clear this basic hurdle then it's impossible to expect anything other than continued mismanagement and CYA-style actions. This is a good idea in theory, as a neutral body of moderators who act as tactful, patient, and reasonable as possible. Getting decent administrators in the first place would make this not an issue. All the mechanism of "neutral advocates" does is creates a wall of obscurity that somewhat dulls the smell of shit in the other room. It's still going to be shit in the other room: installing a wall doesn't fix that.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Dec 31, 2019 12:38:18 GMT -5
It's a good idea, and I liked most of the pcs I've played with, but it's implemented with entirely too much "we're beholden to/fear allanak+luirs", wherein you can, in most situations, assume they're going to tell Allanak/turn you in to Allanak/kill you for Allanak, and be right.
ATM, the entire game is basically Allanak vs indies, and 2moons is no exception, even if that maybe was not the original intention.
They'd have been much more appealing, as a more renegade faction without ties or obligations to outsiders, who do lots of meddling/plotting/sabotaging the major powers and being 'friends' to the less-than-reputable peoples for trade and such. I feel that, Kurac/Luirs, would be better as the bad boy merchant clan, too, instead of the... continuous wet fart, that they exist as now.
Tired of everything being about allanak, in general, though. The game really, really does need, at least one other major power.
Make the change happen that you want to see. Allanak is supreme over Zalanthas it's true but it doesn't have to be that way. Even in the real world where law and authority are monolithic criminal organizations still operate with varying degrees of success. When a Templar tells a PC to do something they cooperate out of fear and because there are little to no consequences for PCs to cooperate with Templars. What if there were consequences? What if PCs had something to fear if they do cooperate with Templars and instead are forced into a dilemma rather than straight forward compliance? Essentially if more PCs killed PCs that cooperate with with Templars it would open up a lot of possibilites than the standard whole world goes and hunts whoever has been designated to die next by Allanak and rinse and repeat Are you seriously parroting the "be the change" bullshit here? That is a complete fabrication. Nothing has changed on Arm in the two decades I've played despite the many pursuits of multiple players playing at the highest levels of power/karma. Here are a few things that existed back in 2000 that haven't changed since. -The rinth is the same. Except there are no more vampire plots from bhagharva and they united the elven tribes then closed the clan to players. -allanak. byn. noble houses. Still the same allanak it was. What has changed in the city? -D-elves. The big change that did happen was you can't play a tribeless d-elf. Which I would argue is worse for the game. Now d-elves are recluse PCs, or even worse they are basically being roleplayed as human tribals that are cool with allanak, luirs and every other faction in the game. They're supposed to be the ultimate wanderers, deadly wastelanders but they aren't anymore. They have been castrated down to social PCs that trade and have no interest in being territorial anymore. -Tuluk was closed. One of the biggest "changes" that happened but I wouldn't call it a change as it had no effect on the overall game. It was just closed to play. -Kurac lost Luirs and it was given to the GMHs. I will admit this was pretty big change, still not sure how I feel about the garrison as a clan. -Red Storm is exactly the same. -Gith are still the only plot hook they use as apparently they can't possibly be wiped out by the combined forces of d-elf tribes, city-states with all powerful templars, etc. -Areas are relatively the same. Silt sea had some additions and stuff but the excel map from 20 years ago holds up quite well to this day. There were some minor changes here and there but little realistic change such as wind erosion, rock avalanches or any natural disaster that would likely have happened in the past 200ish IC years we've been playing the game. Overall the game is the same as it was, I can't tell much of a difference lore-wise. There have been some things happen here and there like Borsail compound being fucked over by a black robe but that didn't stop Borsail from just coming back for some reason? All the clans are the same, no clans ever get wiped out (red fang being the one exception). They just get closed down because there is no support from staff for it. PS: This isn't a negative thing either. I like that the game hasn't changed much, makes it easy to jump right back in. I'm just saying that players cannot and have never really changed much in the game. Adding a clan is great but ultimately meaningless when said clan (crimson wind) is empty and has no players.
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