ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 13, 2019 8:09:37 GMT -5
It's a connection issue. Your connections to other people are what matters. Increasingly, the positions of power are encamping and fortifying themselves ... That was good. ... and then you lost me. I don't think there is as much OOC commiseration as you appear to think there is. For one, staff marks that shit on your notes and will only tolerate so much of that before bitchslapping your account with notes and giving you a warning talking to. Trust me I know. I understand that connection thing though, I think they're not retaining players partly because the people trying it aren't connecting with the game in general. The theme, the commands, the stories, the people. And (some) governing staff can be two faced or like mineminemine toddlers, or highly unprofessional, or they're Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde or Dr. Frankenstein, or hell, Hitler. I laugh when an actual newbie comes in. They're all over it like white on snow. They're the epitome of customer service... if they treated their veterans like that MAYBE they'd stop leaving. |
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 13, 2019 10:49:03 GMT -5
Excuse me, rice would like to have a word with you about your noun selection.
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 13, 2019 15:20:48 GMT -5
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 13, 2019 15:54:41 GMT -5
OOC connections definitely do have an impact, it's just not as pervasive as many would think. Some people with OOC connections make it onto staff, and then the presence of these connections become way more pronounced. It can unfortunately work the other way too, when staff with a grudge against another player get on the team and make it their purpose in life to endlessly fuck with them.
Staff have no tangible reason to treat veterans on their game as well as they treat new players. Veterans are already hooked, and we've seen just how much they will tolerate before veterans will throw up their hands and say they're done. And even when they do say they're done, they often return, thinking the game has changed for the better or that playing under the radar will make a major difference in their enjoyment of the game long-term. Newbies have no investment in the game and are the most likely to walk away, so staff have to be nice to them in order to retain them.
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grumble
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Post by grumble on Dec 14, 2019 3:35:54 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone ever has had someone say to them, at some point or another, "Hey, I'm trying to do this thing over here and I think you'd be perfect for helping me get it done."... but few of you would go over there and accidently turn it into a catastrophe (which is a 50/50 chance for me, flip a coin). Sometimes an epic catastrophe. To deny people OOC collaborate is foolish. And to deny staff have favorites is downright ignorant. We already KNOW they have those they disfavor, which, likely don't include murder-dwarf day one out of chargen repeatedly. The question is the degree to which favorites and those they disfavor are treated. I haven't played the game enough lately to get a perspective, but before I mostly stopped playing I got the impression things were steadily improving. Just my take on it.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 14, 2019 6:17:19 GMT -5
Speaking of treating veterans like crap:  Tapas had a decent response to this attack: Personally I would have added that Shabago didn't address the main thrust of tapas's concern, which was that PK is so prevalent because players play the game as if they can win or lose. That's probably a topic for a different thread, which focuses on how players gain clout within the community and what they effectively do with it. |
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 14, 2019 7:42:20 GMT -5
OOC connections definitely do have an impact, it's just not as pervasive as many would think. Some people with OOC connections make it onto staff, and then the presence of these connections become way more pronounced. It can unfortunately work the other way too, when staff with a grudge against another player get on the team and make it their purpose in life to endlessly fuck with them. Staff have no tangible reason to treat veterans on their game as well as they treat new players. Veterans are already hooked, and we've seen just how much they will tolerate before veterans will throw up their hands and say they're done. And even when they do say they're done, they often return, thinking the game has changed for the better or that playing under the radar will make a major difference in their enjoyment of the game long-term. Newbies have no investment in the game and are the most likely to walk away, so staff have to be nice to them in order to retain them. I can agree with that. Predatory as fuck though. Lure them in under false pretenses. One person's seedy is another person's player retention I guess. Armageddon's one and only problem has ALWAYS been its staff. |
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 14, 2019 7:44:47 GMT -5
I'm sure everyone ever has had someone say to them, at some point or another, "Hey, I'm trying to do this thing over here and I think you'd be perfect for helping me get it done."... but few of you would go over there and accidently turn it into a catastrophe (which is a 50/50 chance for me, flip a coin). Sometimes an epic catastrophe. To deny people OOC collaborate is foolish. And to deny staff have favorites is downright ignorant. We already KNOW they have those they disfavor, which, likely don't include murder-dwarf day one out of chargen repeatedly. The question is the degree to which favorites and those they disfavor are treated. I haven't played the game enough lately to get a perspective, but before I mostly stopped playing I got the impression things were steadily improving. Just my take on it. Were they steadily improving or have you stopped being a tool player? |
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 14, 2019 9:35:45 GMT -5
OOC connections definitely do have an impact, it's just not as pervasive as many would think. Some people with OOC connections make it onto staff, and then the presence of these connections become way more pronounced. It can unfortunately work the other way too, when staff with a grudge against another player get on the team and make it their purpose in life to endlessly fuck with them. Staff have no tangible reason to treat veterans on their game as well as they treat new players. Veterans are already hooked, and we've seen just how much they will tolerate before veterans will throw up their hands and say they're done. And even when they do say they're done, they often return, thinking the game has changed for the better or that playing under the radar will make a major difference in their enjoyment of the game long-term. Newbies have no investment in the game and are the most likely to walk away, so staff have to be nice to them in order to retain them. I can agree with that. Predatory as fuck though. Lure them in under false pretenses. One person's seedy is another person's player retention I guess. Armageddon's one and only problem has ALWAYS been its staff. I think the biggest tell in staff's new strategy has been ending the reports on monthly player retention statistics. They saw the numbers as pathetic (although realistically speaking, they were pretty good for an RPI) and decided to stop tipping their hand by showing how few people actually stick with the game. Nowadays they just operate under the assumption that it takes a lot for a veteran to decide to cut years' worth of investment in the game and leave. It's hard to decide to leave a place when you've built up max karma, have friends on the staff team, can easily get sponsored roles, have good account notes, etc. For a player with a lot to lose, they will suffer a lot of indignities to keep that status. I liken the phenomenon to new subscriber deals. If you're a new subscriber to X subscription service, you get a sweet deal that longtime customers aren't eligible for. But instead of not being eligible for sweet deals, veterans expose themselves to potentially harsh treatment if they even ask. Karma reviews are the biggest example of this. Staff know how much power they have to influence a player's experience with the game and use that power as they please. Karma categories like "good communication" and "contributes to the game" give staff enough wiggle room to deny players who are worthy of more play options just because they happened to disagree with a staff request or an animated NPC. While I disagree that staff are Armageddon's only problem, it's only a semantic disagreement. I argue that all of the game's problems are derived from staff, how they treat the game, and how they treat other players. Even problems that are ostensibly player-caused, like "player cliques" that engage in OOC coordination, are caused by staff-created systems that encourage players to compete against one another on an OOC level for staff's attention and time. |
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 14, 2019 10:10:29 GMT -5
I can agree with that. Predatory as fuck though. Lure them in under false pretenses. One person's seedy is another person's player retention I guess. Armageddon's one and only problem has ALWAYS been its staff. I think the biggest tell in staff's new strategy has been ending the reports on monthly player retention statistics. They saw the numbers as pathetic (although realistically speaking, they were pretty good for an RPI) and decided to stop tipping their hand by showing how few people actually stick with the game. Nowadays they just operate under the assumption that it takes a lot for a veteran to decide to cut years' worth of investment in the game and leave. It's hard to decide to leave a place when you've built up max karma, have friends on the staff team, can easily get sponsored roles, have good account notes, etc. For a player with a lot to lose, they will suffer a lot of indignities to keep that status. I liken the phenomenon to new subscriber deals. If you're a new subscriber to X subscription service, you get a sweet deal that longtime customers aren't eligible for. But instead of not being eligible for sweet deals, veterans expose themselves to potentially harsh treatment if they even ask. Karma reviews are the biggest example of this. Staff know how much power they have to influence a player's experience with the game and use that power as they please. Karma categories like "good communication" and "contributes to the game" give staff enough wiggle room to deny players who are worthy of more play options just because they happened to disagree with a staff request or an animated NPC. While I disagree that staff are Armageddon's only problem, it's only a semantic disagreement. I argue that all of the game's problems are derived from staff, how they treat the game, and how they treat other players. Even problems that are ostensibly player-caused, like "player cliques" that engage in OOC coordination, are caused by staff-created systems that encourage players to compete against one another on an OOC level for staff's attention and time. Actually, it sounds like you agree with me entirely. Where is our disagreement? |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Dec 14, 2019 11:39:31 GMT -5
ShaLeah hes saying staff technically isnt the only problem now because their system created more problems that have a life of their own
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 14, 2019 12:02:17 GMT -5
I personally think lethal and poorly implemented city guard code which can lead to whoopsie deaths with no rollbacks or like toggle newbcrime.
If you are in a bar brawl and type the wrong command you get 86'd by the NPCs inside. Unless you flee, then you can be arrested. The issue is the whoopsie moment in a situation that auto submit to guards won't save you is an example of a system issue.
Obviously there are others but this one is kind of a good case of both a staff issue (no support in correcting) and a system issue (it is working properly).
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 14, 2019 15:45:36 GMT -5
ShaLeah hes saying staff technically isnt the only problem now because their system created more problems that have a life of their own Yes but regardless of what changes have added to the issues STAFF is the implementor, it's their system, their code, their tool. He at the controls is responsible. Semantics dont change the person in charge. |
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 14, 2019 15:48:42 GMT -5
I personally think lethal and poorly implemented city guard code which can lead to whoopsie deaths with no rollbacks or like toggle newbcrime. If you are in a bar brawl and type the wrong command you get 86'd by the NPCs inside. Unless you flee, then you can be arrested. The issue is the whoopsie moment in a situation that auto submit to guards won't save you is an example of a system issue. Obviously there are others but this one is kind of a good case of both a staff issue (no support in correcting) and a system issue (it is working properly). I would challenge that mindset in that most people don't leave cause of the code and learning curve cause they entered the wrong commands. |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Dec 14, 2019 15:59:00 GMT -5
ShaLeah hes saying staff technically isnt the only problem now because their system created more problems that have a life of their own Yes but regardless of what changes have added to the issues STAFF is the implementor, it's their system, their code, their tool. He at the controls is responsible. Semantics dont change the person in charge. lol who said otherwise loca he said a semantic difference he didnt challenge the cause of the problem its like thinking he disagrees with u for calling ur green car jade |
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