ShaLeah
Clueless newb
Sooth Saying & Seeking Clueless Vet
Posts: 65
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 6, 2019 23:00:37 GMT -5
Well, it's the same account that defended Armageddon when that guy said he saw some PCs having sex in a tavern, so I'm willing to believe that it's her. That's Shaleah yeah. I talked to her a bit. She's got a bone to pick with Arm recently I guess. She can put it over here by my giant pile of bones that I'm picking. Isn't that the usual progression though? Ardent defender of Armageddon attacks everyone else until they receive their own ill treatment and then suddenly joins the Hallelujah Chorus. Yep. It's me. I still defend Arm. Arm isn't the problem. Definitely not joining any Hallelujah chorus and one look at my account notes will show you I've endured 18 years of ill treatment so you can rest easy. Was informed I was mentioned and came to read it. May as well stand behind my contribution to the reddit. Still Arm lover, never blind follower of that authority.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 6, 2019 23:44:37 GMT -5
Can confirm. Had mudsex with Blaze. It was relatively unsatisfying. Never got to play a gith as was promised. Really, the whole thing sounds like bullshit to me. Staff is weird and pervy at times but this one seems like nonsense. did he punch your cervix with his monster dong?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 0:20:35 GMT -5
Thanks for tagging me. I havent been paying attention to Arm related matters lately.
Although, to be honest. This one isnt even worth my time to troll and white wash.
I'll compliment the growing need to make each new work of fiction more convoluted and laden with "proof".
Honestly though. That's not how this shit works. You gotta come up with something basic and then, no matter how ridiculous it is, repeat it endlessly until it stops seeming ridiculous. This is how you sell that shit. The more variables you add, the easier it is to figure out it's fake.
I promise I'll be more active next year. Right now, all of my Arm related activities are on hold.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,699
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 7, 2019 6:46:32 GMT -5
Well, it's the same account that defended Armageddon when that guy said he saw some PCs having sex in a tavern, so I'm willing to believe that it's her. She can put it over here by my giant pile of bones that I'm picking. Isn't that the usual progression though? Ardent defender of Armageddon attacks everyone else until they receive their own ill treatment and then suddenly joins the Hallelujah Chorus. Yep. It's me. I still defend Arm. Arm isn't the problem. Definitely not joining any Hallelujah chorus and one look at my account notes will show you I've endured 18 years of ill treatment so you can rest easy. Was informed I was mentioned and came to read it. May as well stand behind my contribution to the reddit. Still Arm lover, never blind follower of that authority. I don't think anyone here will try and tell you Armageddon is the problem. The problem since the beginning of this forum has always been people who will always, invariably, and without fail, stick their fingers in their ears whenever a problem with Armageddon's community is revealed. Of course, the people who cause those problems are also a problem, but the people who stand by or defend those problem-causers are as bad, if not sometimes worse. The problem is people like Shalooonsh as well as people who defend him as some sort of god-tier roleplayer/staffer who can do no wrong ever. You can love a game conceptually and heavily criticize the people who run it poorly and people who defend poor management as long as the game remains fun to play for them specifically. My main criticisms of this whole situation, as someone who believes Kaitrena based on the fact that her story lines up with past stories of Shalooonsh, but is waiting for some sort of video proof to confirm further, are: 1) Shabago should have been nowhere near the resolution of a staff complaint. There are three Producers and Shabago is not one of them. 2) Either in ineptitude or out of malice, Shabago low-key accused Kaitrena of multiplaying and banned what he thought to be her "alt account" and called the case closed afterward. 3) No one expects the same burden of proof from Shabago as they seem to expect from Kaitrena. He makes mention of seeing Shalooonsh's account and benig able to verify no messages took place, yet Kaitrena is the one expected to do a screen share, after having shared the most evidence any Reddit review of Armageddon ever has. Burden of proof on the accuser is always a good idea, but people did see Shalooonsh leave the Armageddon server and change his avatar, so he tainted any evidence that could be collected in the first place. It is fair to say that there are elements of a cover-up here. And for what? To protect an extremely problematic staff member who runs roughshod over the players on a regular basis, and now (allegedly) has sexually harassed a player. Armageddon would be better without Shalooonsh's presence, and staff have rallied to keep them. What does that tell you (general you) about staff's plans for the game?
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ShaLeah
Clueless newb
Sooth Saying & Seeking Clueless Vet
Posts: 65
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Post by ShaLeah on Dec 7, 2019 8:26:23 GMT -5
The only thing I disagree with is: The problem since the beginning of this forum has always been people who will always, invariably, and without fail, stick their fingers in their ears whenever a problem with Armageddon's community is revealed. That's a massive generalization. Staff has never taken criticism well, be it the game or of their behavior. It's been going downhill more and more since Adhira left. One can have talent roleplaying, a rich imagination with which they bring the world alive, good story lines, good intentions and STILL have zero people skills and be a creepy online presence. Blaze is that. He needs to go. Shabago needs to stop protecting him. It ultimately comes down to who is really in charge. nessalin is one of those people above, he's the iron fist that's ruled since Sanvean's departure. He's surrounded by enablers who love the game enough to donate their time to it but have no power of influence over him, his decisions or the direction of the game. People see what they want they wanna see. Staff, and I use the term collectively, are never really truthful, they're politically correct which is bullshit. They concentrate on whatever positive attributes Blaze has, I guess. He's been complained about by numerous people I know, staff has chosen to continue to allow him to be part of their clique. I understand mehtastic's opinion, trust me. http://instagram.com/p/BzcIKfmHdOf
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 7, 2019 10:06:46 GMT -5
Minor note it is almost impossible to 'proof' something with screenshots on discord. Why? Discord is chromium and you can open the devtool and literally edit the information on the screen. Someone over on MSB was kind enough to demonstrate in a screenshot here.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 10:51:47 GMT -5
I came here and made an account just to say it's funny that Jeshin keeps posting technical reasons the screenshots could be faked like a full 24 hours after it was already solved in the reddit thread how things could be validated. Just click the thread and read the comments, my friend.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Dec 7, 2019 10:53:58 GMT -5
Would changes like that persist after closing out and firing it back up?
If not, snagging OBS and recording a clip of the damning information on a freshly-opened discord app for upload wouldn't be too hard for anyone determined to make their case.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 7, 2019 11:06:54 GMT -5
The support thing posted from the discord site is basically assuming no one has ulterior motives. So while it would be perfectly fine to validate stuff the moment someone is accusing someone else of faking it, it loops back to how can all of it be spoofed. I have no love for Shalnooshboosh nor a particular affection for Armageddon but if I do comment on something like this I tend to followup with relevant information if only for the sake of consistency. It'd be pretty shitty of me to say post screenshots of this accusation and not reference the theory it's a bad actor trying to hamstring the game or provide the staff response. Just like it's worth mentioning hey discord is a very malleable app.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 11:15:30 GMT -5
As posted in the reddit thread and the Discord support documents, you can change the 4 digit discriminator at will (including a custom one if you have Nitro) but the 16 digit user ID viewed by entering developer mode never changes. This can be viewed even if the account is deleted or you have the person blocked. There is no currently known way to spoof it in the Discord app itself or cycling it out for a new one without openly making a new account. Viewing the user ID in the Discord app is an absolute way to verify the validity of this situation here to prove who is lying. You're not really posting supplementary information here, just repeatedly being open about how confused you are about how Discord works. I'm a Discord admin for a relatively large MUD Discord myself and have had to validate fake screenshots in a similar way before so I am very familiar with how this works.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2019 11:57:26 GMT -5
3) No one expects the same burden of proof from Shabago as they seem to expect from Kaitrena. He makes mention of seeing Shalooonsh's account and benig able to verify no messages took place, yet Kaitrena is the one expected to do a screen share, after having shared the most evidence any Reddit review of Armageddon ever has. Burden of proof on the accuser is always a good idea, but people did see Shalooonsh leave the Armageddon server and change his avatar, so he tainted any evidence that could be collected in the first place. I'd like to address this as well. The reason there's a higher burden of proof from Kaitrena is because simply, Kaitrena's evidence proves more. If it can be validated and shown to be absolutely true, then it proves that there was systemic sexual harassment and a cover up. All Shabago's evidence does is prove that Kaitrena could be a problematic player who is targeting exactly one person. There is a massive difference between the outcome of both lines of inquiry. I want to emphasize that I believe Kaitrena -- we have no choice but to, when an accusation like this is made -- but it makes it easier for the community to take action on something like this if there is concrete evidence that this kind of thing occurred. As far as the tainted evidence goes, the old user ID can still be pulled from the PMs even if Shaloonsh left the server, changed his avatar or even created a new account.
It's my opinion that if Kaitrena's evidence is validated and Armageddon continues to take no action on this, that they should be delisted from every MUD site and banned from advertising on /r/MUD until the problematic staff members are removed and banned from the game. The only way you can convince a community to take this sort of action is with irrefutable evidence.
edit: example of being able to pull the ID even from a deleted account:
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Dec 7, 2019 12:03:59 GMT -5
Unsure if I buy that it's fabricated. If staff says it's fabricated yet it's not then that's a major fuckup. That said, I did look over the screenshots, and in my opinion the only thing the alleged Shaloonsh did that was objectively wrong (regardless of creepy factor) is the threat to use NPCs to insure that no one in the clan will hire that PC.
It's well known that people use sex for influence, power, and even as a weapon. Armageddon is a harsh world, and he correctly pointed out that if you don't bring what's expected to the table, then you have to bring something else. They were even willing to accomodate the PC and players preferences so as to not make it too creepy. The correct response on the player's part, imo, if they really wanted to get into Kadius, would be to accept, then FTB the scene. Haha, a nice "fuck you" to what they percieve as "creepy" AND they get what they want out of it.
Or, that's just, what I would've done, had I been in their shoes... and if their would've been consequences for FTBing a scene I would have put that final nail in the coffin. I'm not saying whether it's fake or not, that's up to people better educated on the workings of discord than I am.
EDIT: I've seen enough petty shittiness from people to believe that either scenario may be true... knowing next to nothing about Shabago or the player in question (or even how freaking discord works) it's impossible for me to say what happened.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 7, 2019 12:09:58 GMT -5
3) No one expects the same burden of proof from Shabago as they seem to expect from Kaitrena. He makes mention of seeing Shalooonsh's account and benig able to verify no messages took place, yet Kaitrena is the one expected to do a screen share, after having shared the most evidence any Reddit review of Armageddon ever has. Burden of proof on the accuser is always a good idea, but people did see Shalooonsh leave the Armageddon server and change his avatar, so he tainted any evidence that could be collected in the first place. I'd like to address this as well. The reason there's a higher burden of proof from Kaitrena is because simply, Kaitrena's evidence proves more. If it can be validated and shown to be absolutely true, then it proves that there was systemic sexual harassment and a cover up. All Shabago's evidence does is prove that Kaitrena could be a problematic player who is targeting exactly one person. There is a massive difference between the outcome of both lines of inquiry. I want to emphasize that I believe Kaitrena -- we have no choice but to, when an accusation like this is made -- but it makes it easier for the community to take action on something like this if there is concrete evidence that this kind of thing occurred. As far as the tainted evidence goes, the old user ID can still be pulled from the PMs even if Shaloonsh left the server, changed his avatar or even created a new account.
It's my opinion that if Kaitrena's evidence is validated and Armageddon continues to take no action on this, that they should be delisted from every MUD site and banned from advertising on /r/MUD until the problematic staff members are removed and banned from the game. The only way you can convince a community to take this sort of action is with irrefutable evidence. edit: example of being able to pull the ID even from a deleted account: [timg]https://i.imgur.com/9VABEzH.png[/timg]
i don't know particularly much about discord but from what I saw she posted the last 4 digits of the ID in a response to you, and delerak later responded confirming that it matched shalooonsh's. or are you saying that she needs to show a screenshot of it? if so, i don't see how that's more evidence when kaitrena is being accused of fabricating the whole thing, the assumed rebuttal here being that the screenshot would be faked.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 7, 2019 12:12:20 GMT -5
STILL have zero people skills and be a creepy online presence. Blaze is that. He needs to go. Shabago needs to stop protecting him. do you have any firsthand things you'd be willing to share about this? there's been things posted here before but have boiled down to 'my nameless friend said...'
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Dec 7, 2019 12:12:33 GMT -5
I'm actually in the process of spoofing it within the webapp atm and assuming I couldn't do that I could 100% spoof it with MS Paint to defend my E-honour and all.
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