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Post by jcarter on Oct 9, 2019 8:03:36 GMT -5
The idea is it is anecdotal if they don't post logs. Anecdotal evidence is not considered scientific evidence by any means so it has nothing to do with the plots/activity for me. I've never seen it and if I had I would say so. no one has called, claimed, or treated it like scientific evidence. no one has even made a hypothesis that would require evidence to support, so idk what you're going on about |
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Oct 9, 2019 8:53:47 GMT -5
The idea is it is anecdotal if they don't post logs. Anecdotal evidence is not considered scientific evidence by any means so it has nothing to do with the plots/activity for me. I've never seen it and if I had I would say so. no one has called, claimed, or treated it like scientific evidence. no one has even made a hypothesis that would require evidence to support, so idk what you're going on about Plenty of posters take any negative review or posts about Arm as truth instead of questioning the review with well deserved skepticism. I won't dig thru this shit hole of a thread or many others because I just don't care enough to argue about it. |
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Post by jcarter on Oct 9, 2019 9:07:13 GMT -5
no one has called, claimed, or treated it like scientific evidence. no one has even made a hypothesis that would require evidence to support, so idk what you're going on about Plenty of posters take any negative review or posts about Arm as truth instead of questioning the review with well deserved skepticism. I won't dig thru this shit hole of a thread or many others because I just don't care enough to argue about it. you're really mixed up. believing an anecdote/review has nothing to do with taking it as scientific evidence |
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 9, 2019 11:13:34 GMT -5
Speaking for myself, the boldest claim I made about these reviews is that hemoting sex in a public place is in a gray area in the rules that probably shouldn't be allowed. Far from the dancing on Armageddon's grave that certain sycophants seem to be pushing with their messaging.
Meanwhile on the official Armageddon Discord, a large contingent of vets is freaking out about how all negative reviews lately are fake. That's not "well deserved skepticism", it's paranoia in the extreme.
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Oct 9, 2019 11:41:01 GMT -5
Those who defend the game for being perfect and any criticism being the work of the evil banned players who want to see the game burn are just as guilty as people here doing the exact opposite. Yes Arm has plenty of sycophants that hang around for no other reason then to possibly deal with loneliness, nothing wrong with that.
There has to be a middle ground, and for me that's evidence that clearly shows: proof of abuse, cheating, anything of that sort, otherwise it's unproductive.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 9, 2019 11:50:15 GMT -5
Is it at all problematic that in order to provide the evidence of the issues you care about that a player pretty much has to resign themselves to being banned? Unless they send it solely to the staff complaint tool which I don't think anyone, even you would agree is a productive use of a complaining players time even with logs.
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delerak
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Post by delerak on Oct 9, 2019 11:54:56 GMT -5
If it's true and the rules were broken, the logs in a player complaint would resolve to a ban as far as my understanding goes. If they don't resolve the request to your satisfaction you can go ahead and go public with it sure. Also we've all seen how bans go on Arm, I suppose 50% of the pbase has been banned by now. And if you're walking away from the game anyway what does the ban matter? These reviews show people who say they'll never play again etc, if that's true what do the logs matter?
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 9, 2019 12:27:07 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about the reviews. I was asking about your personal goals and what mattered to you in the middle ground.
You said you want proof of abuse/cheating, but the majority I would assume do not trust the staff complaint tool to resolve in a reasonable/fair manner. If it's a complaint against another player I imagine the staff just need to be flagged to an irregularity and they can look at the runlog and determine it themselves. I just wonder what motivates someone has to provide evidence of staff complaint issues if they weren't on their way out. Plenty of people play games they're not stoked on to play with friends or no alternatives. There are people on this forum who claim to still play but clearly have complaints that they do not articulate because they want to be able to play. It would seem like what you want most is the hardest kind of reporting to get because of the risk of fallout.
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Post by jcarter on Oct 9, 2019 12:30:02 GMT -5
i have no idea what delerak is expecting here. the pretense of the post was a player saying here's some of the suggest muds I tried and my impressions. their post was an opinion, not a publication in Nature Scientific Reports or some other peer-reviewed scientific journal. part of their post was about arm, which was suggested to them a week ago by multiple arm players on reddit. let's reiterate that: multiple armageddon mud players advertised and advocated the MUD to a poster who showed no intention of playing it. during their post about their time at arm, they post offhand about seeing lewd emotes. the poster does not say they won't play because of that. they didn't say they were turned off of the game from that. they clearly state they didn't play anymore because they didn't feel it was casual-friendly game, and then state that they don't know how typical their experience was. to some, this is too fantastical to believe and the poster needs to provide notarized logs as well as indisputable evidence that this happened. otherwise it is absolutely unfathomable that someone could not enjoy arm, and it is in fact a more likely scenario to these people that the post is completely fabricated by setting up a week-long troll who baited arm players into selling them on the mud on a third-party forum so they could masterfully troll the community by saying "this game isn't for me". you guys have some seriously broken fucking brains. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 15:04:59 GMT -5
Consider a review. Where a newbie says that when he logged in, A bynner came over. Told him OOC that his clan is full of white supremacists and because the character's skin isn't white, he will kill him now. Is that possible? Well ... I mean. Theoretically? It's not impossible. Would staff have given a review that described this situation a shred of benefit of doubt? If it happened without all those fake claims that happened prior? Yes. they would've. Would've asked for logs, tracked down the bynner, spoke to him. Pulled up run logs, etc. Would they give it even a shred of benefit of doubt "now"? Well ... yes. Enough to check the request tool for a complaint about it. And if there isnt. Then it's fake. Thankfully. People who actually have legitimate concerns are not penalized for all those fake bs things. All they need to do is file a complaint about it and it'll be investigated.
Would I have given it a benefit of doubt after all the fake review stuff?
No. It sounds ridiculous as much as the claims of all that sexual hemote sex that the guy is describing. That is literally a bannable offence. And if it was in a busy tavern, half of people in there would've caught enough of it for someone to complain about it. Properly complain. Not on reddit. But via request tool/wish up. Both situations are while not impossible, are still ridiculous enough for me to disbelieve them if they're posted on reddit by some obscure, unknown account.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 9, 2019 15:45:08 GMT -5
Imagine thinking that people who played Armageddon for like 5 hours intrinsically know they have to file Form 69420 in order to report a Serious Breach of Rule 2.
Instead of thinking "it's not in the request tool, so it's fake" maybe think "it's not in the request tool, so what actually happened?". Maybe grep the runlog for use of the hemote command in taverns. How long does that take, a few seconds at most? The "it's fake" attitude gates resolution of problems behind complete knowledge of how to navigate Armageddon's bureaucracy whereas the "what actually happened?" attitude requires a modicum of voluntary work on staff's end.
"It's literally a bannable offense": that depends on how you read Rule 2 and what your understanding of how hemote works is, as well as understanding how probability works. Rule 2 doesn't specify hemotes and some people seriously think seeing hemotes is extremely rare unless you're watching, when it really isn't. Going back to staff putting in a modicum of work, why doesn't staff include "even if you think no one will see your emotes" or something like that to the rule? Either they don't know how to phrase it (stupidity) or they want to leave the rule vague and open to interpretation for themselves and their friends (malice).
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Post by jcarter on Oct 9, 2019 15:52:10 GMT -5
Consider a review. Where a newbie says that when he logged in, A bynner came over. Told him OOC that his clan is full of white supremacists and because the character's skin isn't white, he will kill him now. Is that possible? Well ... I mean. Theoretically? It's not impossible. Would staff have given a review that described this situation a shred of benefit of doubt? If it happened without all those fake claims that happened prior? Yes. they would've. Would've asked for logs, tracked down the bynner, spoke to him. Pulled up run logs, etc. Would they give it even a shred of benefit of doubt "now"? Well ... yes. Enough to check the request tool for a complaint about it. And if there isnt. Then it's fake. Thankfully. People who actually have legitimate concerns are not penalized for all those fake bs things. All they need to do is file a complaint about it and it'll be investigated.
Would I have given it a benefit of doubt after all the fake review stuff?
No. It sounds ridiculous as much as the claims of all that sexual hemote sex that the guy is describing. That is literally a bannable offence. And if it was in a busy tavern, half of people in there would've caught enough of it for someone to complain about it. Properly complain. Not on reddit. But via request tool/wish up. Both situations are while not impossible, are still ridiculous enough for me to disbelieve them if they're posted on reddit by some obscure, unknown account.
lmao how fucking broke brained do you have to be to try to equate 'player reports seeing lewd emotes on a mud where lewd acts are accepted and commonplace behind closed doors' to 'its as if someone tried to say nazis were recruiting for white supremacists' |
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muddy
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Post by muddy on Oct 9, 2019 16:00:13 GMT -5
I remember in my early playing, maybe I was injured or maybe just exhausted I went above Red's to go rest. I opened a curtain and saw two Byn Pc's with ldesc changes showing male-male butt sex. Having been a male in my late 20's- early 30's I thought it hilarious but I could see how with today's social climate and possibility of minors playing that could be sketchy for the game as a whole. I've never played an emoting sexy time characters outside a few FTB closed room occasions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2019 17:01:38 GMT -5
Lewd acts are commonplace when consented to OOC, Jcarter.
So no. One is against the rules and so is the other. Kinda similar.
Well. I'll admit. I dont really know what the guy actually 'saw'. But in this particular thread, it got downplayed into a full on mudsex session entirely. In which case. Yes. It would require a consent. And not asking for it is as much of an offense as the situation I described.
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Post by jcarter on Oct 9, 2019 17:18:27 GMT -5
But in this particular thread, it got downplayed into a full on mudsex session entirely. In which case. Yes. It would require a consent. And not asking for it is as much of an offense as the situation I described. once again qwerty makes up shit that never happened. mehtastic posted the snippet and bolded the hemote parts and pointed out it wasn't the main focus nor why they quit: It's not the main focus of the review: the writer is talking about exploring a few different MUDs and it seems the last straw on Arm was getting robbed after knocking himself out with the Way. Still, interesting to see that it's cropping up as an issue. then you dumbasses argued about the probability of someone noticing a watch event for 3 pages while screaming that the review was fake despite finding no inconsistencies or inaccuracies. your brain is broken. stop posting. |
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