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Post by shakes on Sept 15, 2019 19:07:22 GMT -5
gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,55082.msg1037528.html#new Looks like a great discussion I would never, ever jump into on the GDB. Don't click that link directly if you don't want to be outed. Cut and paste it into a new browser window or they'll be able to tell where you linked from.
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tedium
Clueless newb
Posts: 164 
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Post by tedium on Sept 15, 2019 21:02:04 GMT -5
I agree with the guy who says that the rinth makes no sense. I'd even go as far as saying that the rinth so poorly integrates into the world writ-large because the lore directly contradicts the rest of the game world. Part of the problem is that it was modeled on a modern inner city ghetto, complete with west-side crips and east-side bloods, which means that the rinth inherently supposes that the violence, poverty, and starvation present is unusual or exceptional in some way. This is Armageddon, not a modern city, and so these qualities are supposed to be the norm for commoners the world over. It's a contradiction, and the rinth builds its identity on that contradiction. The other side of town doesn't have public education and suburbs, it has a corpse pile, a golden tower, and food riots.
The 'teeth' of the rinth has to come from its identity to make any sense. So how do you give the 'rinth teeth that allow it to contend with the other spheres of the game, when the fundamental premise of the sphere (its the place where life is hard and poverty is rampant) is at odds with the premise of the rest of the game (life is hard and poverty is rampant everywhere)? You don't, not without changing it. Unfortunately, the anachronistic elements of the rinth are what some people like about it, so I doubt there's player support to changing it. I don't think that staff should change it, given their track record, but that's also probably why the rinth is so neglected.
That's why the defining element of the rinth is the lack of crimcode. That's the best you can do with the premise of the sphere as it is.
Side note: Why don't rinthers know how to read? I'd build a character based around spreading literacy throughout the rinth if I thought staff would ever go along with it. Are we honestly going to say that the 'rinth clans ignore all of the laws except literacy? That they manage to steal everything except notes, books, or letters? It seems like the Guild and the Jaxa Pah would want their members to be literate, so that they have a massive advantage over the Arm and your typical southerner. And yet because of the idea that the rinth is an inner city ghetto, rinthers are usually portrayed as dumb and uneducated, even in a world where literacy is rare because it's illegal.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 18:15:20 GMT -5
gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,55082.msg1037528.html#new Looks like a great discussion I would never, ever jump into on the GDB. Don't click that link directly if you don't want to be outed. Cut and paste it into a new browser window or they'll be able to tell where you linked from. Why not? |
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516 
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Post by Jeshin on Sept 16, 2019 18:27:45 GMT -5
In the post where you quoted it specifically states.
Don't click that link directly if you don't want to be outed.
What could this mean? It means that if you do not want an IP address associated with this website for ANY reason. Do not click on the click from this forum to that forum. It seems fairly self-explanatory.
Whether the staff are evil or sleepy or awesome or neutral or whatever it's a simple fact that they can match web traffic if they so choose.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 16, 2019 19:11:16 GMT -5
Hard to tell what qwerty's asking. If he's asking why one shouldn't click the link, that's abundantly clear from shakes' post. If he's asking why shakes won't wade into a GDB discussion, that's abundantly clear from the state of the GDB ever since they dropped Hypernews.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 16, 2019 19:16:01 GMT -5
I agree with the guy who says that the rinth makes no sense. I'd even go as far as saying that the rinth so poorly integrates into the world writ-large because the lore directly contradicts the rest of the game world. Part of the problem is that it was modeled on a modern inner city ghetto, complete with west-side crips and east-side bloods, which means that the rinth inherently supposes that the violence, poverty, and starvation present is unusual or exceptional in some way. This is Armageddon, not a modern city, and so these qualities are supposed to be the norm for commoners the world over. It's a contradiction, and the rinth builds its identity on that contradiction. The other side of town doesn't have public education and suburbs, it has a corpse pile, a golden tower, and food riots.
The 'teeth' of the rinth has to come from its identity to make any sense. So how do you give the 'rinth teeth that allow it to contend with the other spheres of the game, when the fundamental premise of the sphere (its the place where life is hard and poverty is rampant) is at odds with the premise of the rest of the game (life is hard and poverty is rampant everywhere)? You don't, not without changing it. Unfortunately, the anachronistic elements of the rinth are what some people like about it, so I doubt there's player support to changing it. I don't think that staff should change it, given their track record, but that's also probably why the rinth is so neglected.
That's why the defining element of the rinth is the lack of crimcode. That's the best you can do with the premise of the sphere as it is.
Side note: Why don't rinthers know how to read? I'd build a character based around spreading literacy throughout the rinth if I thought staff would ever go along with it. Are we honestly going to say that the 'rinth clans ignore all of the laws except literacy? That they manage to steal everything except notes, books, or letters? It seems like the Guild and the Jaxa Pah would want their members to be literate, so that they have a massive advantage over the Arm and your typical southerner. And yet because of the idea that the rinth is an inner city ghetto, rinthers are usually portrayed as dumb and uneducated, even in a world where literacy is rare because it's illegal.
The 'rinth is basically a place for Bynners to grind when there's no one to spar with. Or at least it was before staff implemented a script to warn them of Bynners walking into the 'rinth. As to why rinthers can't read, I'm convinced the main reason literacy is restricted is because of how utterly broken the writing code has been for decades. Even after the semi-recent update where written text was stored differently, scrolls and books would still break. The literacy code being complete ass isn't as much of a problem when there's only a handful of players who have literate characters at any one time. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 10:58:58 GMT -5
Yeah. I ment why not participate in the discussion. It is an interesting read and Shakes definitely spent enough time in the rinth to know it's weakness and strengths throughout.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 17, 2019 12:26:37 GMT -5
Okay then.
On that note, I want to address Shabago's recent post:
Let's be clear, this entire post is misdirection.
- It starts off with a CYA statement that it is Shabago's personal opinion. Assuming the website is accurate, which is a crapshoot in and of itself, the Guild is under the GMH team, which is directed by Draugr. So this is the admin of the independents group stepping up to join in on a discussion that really should have Draugr's attention.
- Shabago continues that they'll bring up these ideas with the "current staff team over the Guild" (aka Draugr), which is well and good, but it disregards the idea that Shabago could have simply told Draugr of these ideas and helped them formulate a response.
- Shabago then suggests everything number13 suggested is "possible" to do ICly already, as if number13 is not a veteran player who has probably already tried to work it out ICly and is simply making suggestions that would be beneficial to the "cops and robbers" aspect of the southside/northside scene from their perspective. In treating number13 like an idiot, Shabago gives the game away. Shabago clearly intends to redirect the conversation to how players can implement number13's suggestions without any staff aid or input.
Again, the thread should have Draugr's attention, and the attention of the Producers. It probably got that attention, and now Shabago is here to run interference and make sure the conversation takes a different tack. My hope is that the players will see this for what it is and stay on-topic. The Labyrinth needs serious work to make it a believable setting, and it starts with staff making improvements and listening to veteran 'rinth players.
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seuly
Clueless newb
Posts: 103
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Post by seuly on Sept 17, 2019 12:39:36 GMT -5
Shabago is a dude.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 17, 2019 12:47:29 GMT -5
My understanding was the opposite based on text I've read before about Shabago, but I admit I could be mistaken. I will use they/them to refer to Shabago since I am otherwise unsure.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Sept 17, 2019 13:16:05 GMT -5
Naturally they want the playerbase to put all the effort into making parts of the world believable. They're unable to do it on their own, or else they would have accomplished it already.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Sept 17, 2019 13:39:46 GMT -5
ive got ten bucks says bebops char just got blicked
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Sept 17, 2019 13:49:59 GMT -5
Better let everyone cool off before there's a confrontation, we wouldn't want that.  |
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 17, 2019 14:44:42 GMT -5
Well what do you know, the thread is locked by Nessalin "for a few hours". We'll see how that holds up.
Shalooonsh stepped in to tell people to keep it civil, yet the thread was relatively civil, barring a couple of posts from ShaLeah trying to play at being a board moderator. He then quoted the dictionary definition of "lawless" for some reason and declared that everyone should make constructive comments and listen to opposing viewpoints.
Again, this is how misdirection works. Shabago painted the discussion as "players should come up with solutions they can handle". Nessalin and Shalooonsh are painting the players as incapable of doing this, despite demonstrating capability in the thread previously. They are trying to incite the players into getting angry with the staff so that they can justify locking it permanently.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516
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Post by Jeshin on Sept 17, 2019 16:56:59 GMT -5
Why not to engage with the debate on GDB. Censorship! Temporary locking threads? Just outright locking threads... Staff being humorous about making a player concern even worse with super death kryl, but just kidding!
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