mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 5, 2019 6:08:54 GMT -5
The game's code is such a fucking mess, lol
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najdorf
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 265
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Post by najdorf on Sept 5, 2019 8:12:39 GMT -5
Yes, my mistake was to consider gith as low hp in that case. Always thought they were < 100hp Fair enough, apologies if we offended any staff by mistake
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baobob
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
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Post by baobob on Sept 5, 2019 9:06:08 GMT -5
I don't see or understand how all those fancy arrow types affect archery damage.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Sept 5, 2019 9:48:57 GMT -5
Been a while since I looked at the code, but as far as I know, they don't.
Arrows have their own damage dice, but that only seems to come into play when they're wielded as weapons.
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Post by fatfinger on Sept 5, 2019 17:50:48 GMT -5
Likely higher quality arrows add a +archery when equipped? Would provide slightly better chance to hit, crit, and can add damage if it brings skill to multiple of seven.
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Post by sirra on Oct 31, 2019 3:49:10 GMT -5
The tragedy of Armageddon is that it was a unique and fun enough game with such interesting source material, that it kept many of us coming back, even after it had been metaphorically Harvey Weinsteined to near-death by the triumvirate of Nyr, Adhira and Nessalin.
There were extremely few experiences like it to be had.
In an alternative timeline, an Armageddon MUD that leaned into its Dark Sun roots and was less mismanaged could've been a reliably ~150 player game, even to this day.
Ultimately, the right decision - for a long time - has been to step away. Good luck, erdlu.
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Post by lechuck on Oct 31, 2019 5:32:51 GMT -5
I will say that RPIs in general - not just Arm - have always had more potential than substance. Without intending to paint myself as God's gift to RP, there aren't many I've played where I didn't think that it would have been great if not for the fact that far too high a percentage of the playerbase is totally inept at roleplaying. People who can barely put out a three-word emote, can't use punctuation, totally fail to grasp the game's concept, and constantly play with their OOC motivations painted on their characters' foreheads. These games could be fantastic if if only half the players weren't below average, but I guess that's the law of averages. What puzzles me the most is how some players (e.g. X-D) can roleplay for two decades and still suck at it. Arm is definitely the one that most fails to foster good roleplayers. I think '04-09 SoI was the golden age of RPIs, mostly because the LOTR movies were an immense source of inspiration and emulation for players to base their roleplay on. Most of Arm's players probably haven't even looked at the Dark Sun source material.
Every year the game resembles a WoW RP server a little more, and I can't play for more than like a month out of the year before I give up again. After Sanvean's departure, there just seems to have been noone left who gave a shit about the actual quality of people's roleplay, so noone's really rewarded for it or punished for failing to present something resembling a real character. The number of characters who could possibly fit into an actual work of fiction just continues to dwindle, making way for empty husks and cringeworthy caricatures. It's a shame, and it's certainly not something you can bring up on the GDB.
An RPI is a lot like a movie, and if you tried to make a movie with fifty people plucked from the street at random, it would probably be a really shitty movie. You'd think, over the years, that they would then become better actors until eventually the core players are at least passable, but that simply doesn't seem to be the case. My guess is that this is because the staff of recent years has neglected to acknowledge that there's more to a good player than obedience and time served as clanlead. There's no money in roleplay anymore, it's all about being easy to work with and not rocking the boat. There were certainly things Sanvean did wrong, but I still think she was the most important administrator the game has ever had because, as an author, she actually recognized the importance of good roleplay in a game that's all about expressing yourself in writing.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 31, 2019 6:01:27 GMT -5
Armageddon's leadership can best be described as a series of overreactions.
- Armageddon's ties to Dark Sun come into question, so it cuts everything away in order to survive... although all it really had to do to please WotC was to stop selling Armageddon-logo underwear and collecting referral pennies off of their Amazon links to books that were sources of inspiration. Oh, it probably would have helped if Sanvean didn't write Armageddon-themed books to make money off of. Search Cat Rambo on Amazon or start with "Aquila's Ring (Women of Zalanthas)" on Kindle. The first in a series of three. Now starting at 99 cents, in case you were curious how much it would take for staff to sell out. It's fair for WotC to not want people outside of the company to profit off of its IP. Armageddon would have been a fine fan-game if not for these attempts to make profit off of WotC's IP, however small that profit may be.
- Ever since shortly before Armageddon's code got leaked to me, and subsequently leaked by me to the community (and of course, well after said leak), Armageddon's gone more code-focused in terms of development. The three Producers are all programmers, and even Storytellers and Admins are contributing code instead of running plots. In their quest to make the game "fun", they've also worked to make it indistinguishable from the code release instead of embracing the code release to focus more on roleplay.
- Every time staff introduce a world plot, it is usually because of the absence of a plot. They're unaware how metaplots should work, and usually define them with a beginning, middle, and a series of possible ends, depending on player action. Eventually, staff come to favor the first end players choose to work towards and will put all of their processing power in that, overreacting to early adopters' embrace of the metaplot before other players even find out about the metaplot ICly.
No one staff member is responsible for this stagnancy, although the Producers have the most power. Nessalin is the only Producer on staff who has been there with the other problematic Producers that have existed, and one can reasonably infer that they learned from him. But all the staff share responsibility for the game's stagnancy and decline. If they truly recognized the problems facing the game, they would resign en masse and force the people in charge to take a serious look at their actions and the way they're running the game. But they prefer to hold onto what little power they have over normal players.
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Post by lechuck on Oct 31, 2019 6:19:55 GMT -5
I don't even know what the metaplot is supposed to have been in recent years. How long has it been "The Gith are Coming"? Did that ever turn into anything more than the weekly culling of NPC gith, with echoes of distant gith drums for atmosphere? It has been a long time since the plot aspect of the game has been anything more than a minimum viable effort made to shut people up. Honestly, I suspect that the ripples of the End of the World events from the ArmReborn farce still make staff a little seasick and wary of doing anything really impactful. That whole plotline was so heavy-handed and overwrought (because people were convinced that there were six months left, so why not) that it probably affects things to this day.
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Post by sirra on Oct 31, 2019 6:22:31 GMT -5
An RPI is a lot like a movie, and if you tried to make a movie with fifty people plucked from the street at random, it would probably be a really shitty movie. You'd think, over the years, that they would then become better actors until eventually the core players are at least passable, but that simply doesn't seem to be the case. My guess is that this is because the staff of recent years has neglected to acknowledge that there's more to a good player than obedience and time served as clanlead. There's no money in roleplay anymore, it's all about being easy to work with and not rocking the boat. There were certainly things Sanvean did wrong, but I still think she was the most important administrator the game has ever had because, as an author, she actually recognized the importance of good roleplay in a game that's all about expressing yourself in writing. I'm one of the few people that has defended Sanvean here. It's not that she was perfect. She is almost solely responsible for the infamous treadmill that I once summed up as 'fuck me gypsy/aide' -> 'fuck me gicker' -> 'fuck me noble' -> 'fuck you templar' -> to eventually becoming a staffer who had never once branched a mundane skill, was beholden to drama and had zero appreciation for how the majority of players interacted with the game. And yet. Say what you will about Sanvean...The son of a bitch knew story structure. She seemed to grasp that a compelling narrative was slightly more important than the paralysis-by-committee bureaucratic wankery that Nyr and Adhira relied on to veil their fundamental incompetence. I always felt like I was interacting with a real person, when I dealt with Sanvean. I've never felt that with Adhira (whose main reason for remaining in the community was seemingly for emotional validation rather than world building) or Nessalin (who has actually done more harm to Armageddon than Nyr and Adhira combined). Nyr came close once or twice. I always knew that Nyr got the way he was because he was a player just like the rest of us and loved the game so much he wanted to know and control everything. His main failure was believing himself to be far smarter than he actually was, and to not being a particularly good storyteller. But he also walked away, eventually. Of course, by the time that Nyr left, you had a mini-Nyr like Nergal ready to step up and fill his obnoxious void. I also never met any of these fuckers RL though, which I think is for the best. The whole Armageddon Con thing sorta ruined the game's culture. Online games already have an alarming tendency to turn dangerously incestuous, and Arm's staffers really took it to the next level. It got to the point to where the only candidates for staffers were the sort've players who would go to an Armageddon Con in the first place. Make of that what you will. I don't even know what the metaplot is supposed to have been in recent years. How long has it been "The Gith are Coming"? Did that ever turn into anything more than the weekly culling of NPC gith, with echoes of distant gith drums for atmosphere? It has been a long time since the plot aspect of the game has been anything more than a minimum viable effort made to shut people up. Honestly, I suspect that the ripples of the End of the World events from the ArmReborn farce still make staff a little seasick and wary of doing anything really impactful. That whole plotline was so heavy-handed and overwrought (because people were convinced that there were six months left, so why not) that it probably affects things to this day. The fiasco that was Arm Reborn is largely what mortally wounded Armageddon. It was trending upwards until then, even after the various stupid decisions or departures. If Arm Reborn had never been a thing, and they had doubled down on Armageddon instead, the game would have vastly benefited. It was the immensity of its potential that allowed the game, even misfired, to continue as it has.
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Post by lechuck on Oct 31, 2019 7:01:12 GMT -5
Yeah. I recall posting at the time that I thought it was a strange decision because the game was in a better state than it had been at any point since I started playing. I'll admit that I initially believed they were truly going to make Arm2.0, but even with that wool over my eyes, I still thought that the way they went about the ending was unpalatable. The game turned into Forgotten Realms almost overnight. It wasn't a worthy ending. "Going out with a bang" shouldn't have to mean abandoning all the principles of the game. All the Dragonthrall stuff, the heaping of psionic abilities onto all kinds of random characters, the approval of any and all special applications (literal newbies were playing fucking mindbenders, for Christ sake), the hilariously stacked Guild crew that noone could oppose... it was like the American gold rush, turning society completely on its head and leaving the whole thing to rot after the source ran dry.
The game still hasn't recovered from it. You can still see the effects of taking a game that used to have values and principles and throwing it all away in favor of confetti and instant gratification. Everyone wanted to drive the Ferrari they'd always dreamed of, without regard for the fact that when everyone's driving a Ferrari, it isn't cool anymore; and when they had to go back to their Buicks, the whole playerbase became mired in apathy and disillusionment. Hell, sociologists might have an interesting case study in what might happen to the global population if it became clear that the world was going to end and then it just didn't.
We were probably all a bit naïve to believe in the Reborn meme. The initial prognosis of six months was wildly optimistic. All the same, it took quite a while before realization dawned. It seems they never even really got the ball rolling. After about a year, I asked a friend who'd joined staff what had actually been done and was told that only the barest framework of a game had been built. They had the capacity to build rooms and move around in the cardinal directions, and that was about it. That's when I knew it would never happen. Still, staff continued to string the playerbase along for another year or so with blog posts and bullshit, cracking down hard on anyone who voiced doubts about the whole thing. I don't think it was officially cancelled until 2010.
It's hard to say if things would have turned out very differently if the Reborn debacle hadn't happened. The damage done to the game by people like Nyr was not predicated on this fiasco, it was just the natural outcome of a toxic narcissist leader. Maybe the general apathy amongst players was what let him get away with it for so long, I don't know. However, I definitely think that the story aspect of Armageddon is still tarnished by the fact that the game once went through the RPI equivalent of a six-month coke bender.
Stuff like the occupation/liberation of Tuluk was before my time, but the best world event I've seen was the Copper War. It should really have been the template for future metaplots. It affected the whole game, as opposed to being relevant exclusively to a certain area like the Tablelands nonsense from a few years back. Almost all clans had some part to play in it, whether as actual soldiers or as profiteers and agitators. It was avoidable for those who just didn't have an interest. It had a focal point that everyone could understand and was deeply ingrained in the setting's lore (winning the priceless copper mine) and also great potential for abstract stuff like political alliances, double agents, etc. If you didn't like the chaotic nature of large-scale DIKU combat, you could still get involved with the social aspect of war. If your character wasn't important, you still had the opportunity to become a war veteran. It was just really good.
Then the game devolved into teleporting volcanos and generations upon generations of gith suiciding against Allanak for no readily apparent reason. Remember when we were supposed to get excited that a third moon appeared on the sky, as if this would fuel roleplay and shake things up? If one were to write the history of Zalanthas, nothing that happened in the last ten RL years would warrant more than a passing note. This began as a game where the conflict between north and south was the foundation and focus of everything, and it has ended up a game where there no longer is a north, nor any meaningful conflict.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 31, 2019 9:19:24 GMT -5
Story-wise, Armageddon is fairly easy to relate to a TV show or book series that went on too long, and subsequently took a nosedive in writing quality and attention. Nobody involved in Armageddon who matters cares about quality anymore; only keeping it going.
The lack of completion in a story is intrinsically annoying to people. It feels unsatisfactory on a psychological level. And when the authors are essentially just winging it, they end up writing themselves in various corners. The world of Zalanthas is ending... until it isn't. A volcano erupts near Allanak and Tuluk is flooded... but recovery efforts that could actually spur RP are delayed and/or outright denied. Tuluk falls into chaos and closes its gates... and nothing really happens after that. There is no consequence; the world effectively remains unchanged. A few terrain features change here and there, or some mobs spawn in new locations... but barely anyone feels the impact, and changes are easy to adjust to. The story remains incomplete.
The excitement is just about gone from the staff members who matter, and every former staff member I've spoken to has told me how much of a mental and emotional drain it is to continue trying to make Armageddon more exciting, and to continue to be told "no" or be met with complete indifference by the Producers. Is it any wonder that the staff body is the revolving door that it is, and staff sometimes burn out in dramatic fashion, often walking away from the game entirely?
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Post by lechuck on Oct 31, 2019 12:21:25 GMT -5
The total lack of any kind of follow-up to the closing of Tuluk is particularly perplexing. When it happened, even my cynical ass thought it would at least lead to an increase in southern staff activity, but I never saw the first sign of that. It felt more like when a franchise simply shuts down one of its stores because it wasn't profitable. It left such a gaping void in the game, and while I never liked to play in Tuluk very much, its existence as a fixture of the playing field was really fucking important for the game's general dynamic.
Hell, I didn't even feel like its closure led to an increase in character density in Allanak, even though player numbers haven't changed much. You'd have thought that whatever portion of the playerbase resided in Tuluk would be shifted into Allanak, but either that didn't happen at all or it did so in a manner that failed to bring any appreciable change in activity levels. They probably shouldn't have left Morin's open as a pseudo-sphere, because anytime I've bothered to go there, there's always a handful of players sitting around being completely worthless to the game as a whole.
I suspect what happened was that without two cities to alternate between, players just grew more insular instead of congregating in Allanak's public scene. Many players used to switch cities when moving on to a new character just so they could be around new faces, and without that option, they may simply have started to play behind closed doors instead. It's no secret that players have increasingly done that in recent years, especially nobles who nowadays barely set foot in Allanak proper. Luir's is only a suitable sphere for members of Kurac, and Red Storm is really more of a suburb to Allanak.
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Post by jcarter on Oct 31, 2019 13:22:42 GMT -5
anyone who believed arm reborn was going to actually happen was a sucker. i think they claimed that it was going to be done in like...2 years? a completely new codebase AND a completely new world. not a single city, or region, but an entirely new world. it was ridiculously ambitious for a paid team to make happen, let alone the one or two volunteer coders and hodgepodge of builders. the design documents and blog posts seemed completely random; it was a smattering of brainstormed ideas that people thought seemed cool but in reality were unfun and disjointed. there never appeared to be a cohesive theme or vision of things, just off the wall stuff like cat people (but totally not furries!!!) and overly complex systems about mundane shit like digging through mud or light sources.
the weird thing was how adamant that staff was about it really happening. they blew past the deadline, blog posts got thinner and thinner, then you stopped hearing anything for 6+ months and staff were still saying no it's totally gonna happen! before things poofed.
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delerak
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PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Oct 31, 2019 13:36:49 GMT -5
arm reborn. lol.
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