mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,337
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 30, 2023 11:07:41 GMT -5
And there it is. Staff and players have equal responsibility for the game's stewardship... somehow. Just play the game. For everyone we hurt? Sorry you feel that way! ("Sorry you feel that way" comes up as one of the first examples in a Google search of "how to not apologize".) Don't like that we suck? Either play the game or stop complaining. Stop bringing up old grudges - we got rid of Shalooonsh like years ago! And also a month ago!
Then he has the gall to call for kindness.
If you still play the game - you are a mark. The staff don't respect you, your intelligence, or your well-being. Take this staff announcement as a hint that when the next debacle happens, you will likely be caught in it. Leave now and find a better roleplaying game to spend your time with. Or an enjoyable hobby outside of MUDs. Just do something better. Make friends who actually respect you and what you find fun.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Mar 30, 2023 11:48:35 GMT -5
eh....
they appear to be trying to patch things up
or at least putting more effort towards that than i've ever seen them try before, tripping and bungling along the way like a bunch of people that don't really know what they're doing, but i feel like there's something, which is worth noting
but i'm an optimist at heart and still kinda hope they turn it around and make the game worth playing again
which is not to say i'll be hopping back in any time soon, just noting that they might actually be trying and that some good might come of it
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Post by gringoose on Mar 30, 2023 11:50:34 GMT -5
Did they even get rid of Shaloonsh? As far as everyone knows he voluntarily stepped down, and can keep playing if he wants or unretire from staff again if he wants. Staff have announced moderation decision about specific individuals publicly before so they must really be intending to let him return?
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Mar 30, 2023 11:53:22 GMT -5
Did they even get rid of Shaloonsh? As far as everyone knows he voluntarily stepped down, and can keep playing if he wants or unretire from staff again if he wants. Staff have announced moderation decision about specific individuals publicly before so they must really be intending to let him return? sourceye they got him
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Post by gringoose on Mar 30, 2023 11:56:05 GMT -5
Thanks. I didn't know. I stopped going to GDB.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,337
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 30, 2023 11:58:34 GMT -5
eh.... they appear to be trying to patch things up or at least putting more effort towards that than i've ever seen them try before, tripping and bungling along the way like a bunch of people that don't really know what they're doing, but i feel like there's something, which is worth noting but i'm an optimist at heart and still kinda hope they turn it around and make the game worth playing again which is not to say i'll be hopping back in any time soon, just noting that they might actually be trying and that some good might come of it - People who got banned for complaining about Shalooonsh in the past month are still banned - The only changes thus far have involved staff changing the rules that they have been known to break in the past - The post is obviously representative of staff being tired of receiving feedback of the game, telling players to either shut up and play or move on
Like yeah, you're right, they're "trying". But if a player was trying to improve their reputation the same way staff are currently, staff would laugh at them and ban them.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Mar 30, 2023 12:05:58 GMT -5
- People who got banned for complaining about Shalooonsh in the past month are still banned aaaah yeah, that alone is pretty fucked and i hate it i almost forgot they're hiding behind some wonky "procedure" reason on that one that shit's scuffed
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 442
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Post by Patuk on Mar 30, 2023 12:15:35 GMT -5
Who'd they ban for (rightfully) complaining about Shaloonsh?
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Mar 30, 2023 12:28:56 GMT -5
Who'd they ban for (rightfully) complaining about Shaloonsh? bebop for starters i think technically she was banned for pulling the pin on that grenade on these forums, but that wouldn't have happened if they had like... done anything about it before it boiled over
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 442
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Post by Patuk on Mar 30, 2023 12:31:32 GMT -5
Y'know, I guess that actually counts. I thought you were talking about someone who did so after the whole situation unraveled, but yeah, there is that.
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Post by blahblahblah on Mar 30, 2023 13:00:01 GMT -5
The changes are good, yeah, and if they stick to them then people will feel more comfortable playing in their space. The problem is, they have a history of going back on their word, as a body. Plus, you can ASK for forgiveness, but you can't demand it. I don't want to analyze every line of that post, because I do see that they are trying. However, they are still in a censoring mindset, and want people to either come back and play, or go away and shut up. The fact that they did not immediately unban everyone that they kneejerk banned within the last month, as if they suddenly got amnesia is ridiculous. Pointing to the fact that they cannot reach WAY back doesn't account for their stubborn refusal on this point. People can be around you, hate your guts, and still enjoy being with their friends.
I recall, years ago, Brokkr making a post after another such blowup, where he wanted to know if people were demanding that they rub their heads in ash for forgiveness. Like... no. The fact that the spectrum is so black and white, "Honestly make an effort" or "Well, why don't I just castigate myself", is an issue that only they can work on. It's NOT everyone else's responsibility to deal with the feelinsg of someone that holds power over them or their experience. That's like Elon Musk getting butthurt when people openly say that they don't like him, and he retaliates by banning their account (sorry to anyone that actually likes that guy).
For me, I might actually have wanted to go back, at some point, but I feel highly unsafe doing so. Stating again, that when I told Brokkr that I was hesitant on joining the staff team for safety reasons because people were concerned about stalking, as SOON as I met the staff team... like the very MOMENT I was in front of everyone, he mentioned what state AND city I lived in. Information that I had NEVER put out there for anyone. My husband was immediately alarmed, and then got pissed, and if I lived alone, I'd have been terrified. I don't even think Brokkr did it out of malice, or I hope not, I just geniuinely think the is that fucking clueless about how anyone would react to that. I don't want to give them ANY chance of getting my personal information again.
(EDIT - I want to also add, that when Brokkr mentioned this, he also let me know that he was an hour or so away. Again... I just... I had no idea how to respond then and just laughed it off, but it wouldn't be pretty NOW)
That's ASIDE from the fact that he knew Akaria broke the rules in her interactions with my character and made it seem as if he had no idea why I was so upset. She should have been temporarily banned when she enacted a torture scene without consent. According to their rules, PERIOD. I don't trust that they will stick to their word on their promises, because staff let their own personal feelings on interpretations of the rules (This doesn't bother me, so I'm mystified why it bothers you) stand rather than just FOLLOWING them. Then they act all confused when people flip their shit. If anything, I'd want to know what the fuck was going through their head when they make these rulings, but it ultimately doesn't matter.
I want to know why it was acceptable for MY first character to spend months being harassed for shit Shallooonsh's character (Zhaka Kadius) in my clan did (or did not) do. I don't personally hate Shalooonsh, but when I think back and realize that I was left with a huge pile of crap to handle because of the actions of a Storyteller's character, I get very annoyed. Hell, even if he WASN'T a Storyteller at the time, that's bullshit.
And sorry, they can't make me shut up about it, even if I'm not a part of "their space" anymore. I used to try to be nice and accomodating, but fuck that. They have no control over what the fuck I say.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,337
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 30, 2023 13:20:11 GMT -5
Looonsh wasn't a storyteller at the time he was playing Zhaka, he just had every staff member on board at the time except Nergal, Rathustra, Cayuga, and Xalle in his pocket. It does not surprise me that Brokkr does Google searches "where is IP 1.2.3.4" on random players. He has the charisma of a paper cut.
Edit to add: Honestly, the staff half-assing their "move forward" plan and the players half-assedly generally accepting it is so emblematic of this game's history. I'm not even surprised any more that half of the GDB is defending staff, I just wish they wouldn't push their humiliation fetish on the rest of the community
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baobob
Clueless newb
Posts: 100
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Post by baobob on Mar 30, 2023 14:37:06 GMT -5
Are we the "nazi forums" Halaster mentions?
More importantly, whether we are the intended target or not of that remark, why would that matter in the context of ArmageddonMUD bans?
There is no rule (nor should there be one) that only people who use "appropriate" other forums or social media platforms are permitted to play ArmageddonMUD.
Without defending nazi forums, even the most devout participant of one could still follow every rule of ArmageddonMUD, never leak OOC secrets or treat other players or the community as a whole with anything other than respect and kindness.
Banning people for what they do is appropriate. Banning people for who they associate with or what staff assumes they believe is turd suckling.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,337
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 30, 2023 14:58:33 GMT -5
Are we the "nazi forums" Halaster mentions? More importantly, whether we are the intended target or not of that remark, why would that matter in the context of ArmageddonMUD bans? There is no rule (nor should there be one) that only people who use "appropriate" other forums or social media platforms are permitted to play ArmageddonMUD. Without defending nazi forums, even the most devout participant of one could still follow every rule of ArmageddonMUD, never leak OOC secrets or treat other players or the community as a whole with anything other than respect and kindness. Banning people for what they do is appropriate. Banning people for who they associate with or what staff assumes they believe is turd suckling. I think Halaster isn't actually referring to us, but to a group of actual Nazis that have been going between RPIs talking about killing minorities while trolling/griefing in games. The Free Zone caught them first, banned them all, and warned the rest of the MUD community about them. Most RPIs just banned them rather than waste their time dealing with that. I think that's fine.
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baobob
Clueless newb
Posts: 100
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Post by baobob on Mar 30, 2023 15:22:07 GMT -5
Are we the "nazi forums" Halaster mentions? More importantly, whether we are the intended target or not of that remark, why would that matter in the context of ArmageddonMUD bans? There is no rule (nor should there be one) that only people who use "appropriate" other forums or social media platforms are permitted to play ArmageddonMUD. Without defending nazi forums, even the most devout participant of one could still follow every rule of ArmageddonMUD, never leak OOC secrets or treat other players or the community as a whole with anything other than respect and kindness. Banning people for what they do is appropriate. Banning people for who they associate with or what staff assumes they believe is turd suckling. I think Halaster isn't actually referring to us, but to a group of actual Nazis that have been going between RPIs talking about killing minorities while trolling/griefing in games. The Free Zone caught them first, banned them all, and warned the rest of the MUD community about them. Most RPIs just banned them rather than waste their time dealing with that. I think that's fine. Ah. Not sure I agree with pre-emptive bans on potential suspected future griefers, but thanks for the insight!
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