|
Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Apr 5, 2023 13:23:51 GMT -5
i keep seeing this sentiment of "not apologizing to people who aren't going to come back" on the gdb, here detailed in a post by armaddict, and it's sadly not surprising but it does make me wonder am i a sappy idealist for believing that if an apology is due it should be rendered in full regardless of the circumstances? or is this (to my eye) stark lack of propriety just kind of the status quo out in the wild?
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,337
|
Post by mehtastic on Apr 5, 2023 13:36:54 GMT -5
i keep seeing this sentiment of "not apologizing to people who aren't going to come back" on the gdb, here detailed in a post by armaddict, and it's sadly not surprising but it does make me wonder am i a sappy idealist for believing that if an apology is due it should be rendered in full regardless of the circumstances? or is this (to my eye) stark lack of propriety just kind of the status quo out in the wild? You're not a sappy idealist. Apologizing is the decent thing to do when you wrong someone, but common decency isn't necessarily common, either.
If I'm shopping for groceries and I accidentally bump my shopping cart into some kind old lady's, I say sorry. I have no intention of maintaining a relationship with the kind old lady. I will probably never see her again in my life. I still bumped her.
I am starting to think a lot of the remaining Armers are sociopaths IRL and are attracted to Armageddon at least in part because they can RP their sociopathic tendencies without RL consequences.
|
|
|
Post by Azerbanjani on Apr 5, 2023 20:55:12 GMT -5
The 'We only care if you want to come back!' theme is a reason why I'm not playing current Armageddon
You had SEVERAL. DOUBLE DIGITS. PEOPLE. Leave the game. They don't want to come back because they are mistreated. Then they see, oh staff might be improving.
Then staff shits on you because you aren't 100% fully optimistic back on the bandwagon.
Express concern? Well sorry you don't fill our optimism quota you're just a bad actor who wants the game to fail, banned/don't come back.
It's madness. You treat people like shit, they leave, you then call them shit for not wanting to come back on their hands and knees.
|
|
|
Post by prodoman on Jul 13, 2023 16:48:41 GMT -5
Back to the homophobia: You guys toss around the word fag without a single care. I tossed it into your search bar and saw six pages. I've been watching your boards for a while as well and it's by no means the only manner of bigotry I've seen communicated here carte blanch. If you had actually looked beyond the page count itself, you'd have found that practically all of those results stemmed from one of three sources:
1) Random weirdos with a single-digit post count, or outright deleted users, most of whom were probably prodoman -type GDB trolls 2) Clearly tongue-in-cheek usage, like ironically calling someone a 'faglord' with the express purpose of emphasizing the silliness of such a term 3) BBCode quotes of one of the above
In fact, if I search for the term 'fag,' the very first page of results goes back to fucking 2019. In short, there is no such thing as a tendency towards homophobia on this forum. Nobody knows if anyone here is gay because it has no bearing on any of the discussions that have ever taken place here. Once in a while, someone thinks it'll be vaguely humorous to call someone else a 'faglord' or something, because it's sort of a funny term, but in no conceivable way has it ever been an actual feature of this community.
For you to bring that up at all shows that you're utterly unfamiliar with this place and just looked for the lowest-hanging fruit from which to pluck a source of outrage.
Cunt.
Just logged in, and you tagged me on mar 31st. Clearly I don't give a shit about you, so keep on trolling nigga
|
|
lurker
Clueless newb
Posts: 79
|
Post by lurker on Sept 17, 2023 8:07:16 GMT -5
- People who got banned for complaining about Shalooonsh in the past month are still banned aaaah yeah, that alone is pretty fucked and i hate it i almost forgot they're hiding behind some wonky "procedure" reason on that one that shit's scuffed I'm one of the ones that got banned. It has since been lifted. I believe this was Shaloonsh lying about what went down to take as many people with them as possible. Once i gave staff some logs they discussed things and dropped my ban after saying the ban was a mistake. I also received a nice apology. I still ended up losing a bucket list level special app over it... But at least they gutted that Clique.
|
|
jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 280
|
Post by jjhardy on Sept 21, 2023 16:47:32 GMT -5
As long as they have their shit karma procedures in place, nothing we do here will improve the game, they use the Karma as a sword over our necks.
|
|
|
Post by uncoolio on Sept 22, 2023 17:11:29 GMT -5
There's at least fifteen things about Arm that are worse than the karma procedure. I might rank it 16th on the list of problems, now that they've made all mundane subclasses universally available. Don't get me wrong, the karma system itself has some problems, but they don't carry as much weight as the fact that the game is super dead in terms of story, the 90s-style statrolling, or the huge problems with combat skillgains.
By and large, the only serious problem with the karma system is the fact that the game's population and roleplaying standards are too low to make the stigma of being a magicker count for as much as it should. Other than that, it's fair enough that you need to have played for some time and acquire staff's trust before you get to play a magicker or HG or whatever. It's just that most who still play Arm are so bad at roleplaying that the things that used to impose disadvantages upon these roles no longer really do so.
That's not really a problem that can be tied specifically to the karma system itself. It's an issue with the way people routinely get away with trash-tier roleplay without facing any consequences for it. If some simpleton can roll up a HG and put out garbage roleplay on a daily basis but still find a clan or group of friends who will include them as one of their own, it's a player problem before anything else.
The good roleplayers left this game during Nyr's tenure. They saw that it was turning to shit and they abandoned ship. Now, Armageddon is left with the ones whose standards were not high enough to give up on it during that time. Those people are simply not good roleplayers, on average, because they're generally not very creative or intelligent. That's what it all comes down to.
Up until that brain-drain occurred, the karma system worked fine. It's only now, when anyone who's got other places to be has left, that the real problems arise. It was a karma system designed for a time when you could expect most players to be reasonably in tune with the fundamental concept of roleplaying. That's no longer the case. Nevertheless, the fault lies with the players, and with the staff's failure to uphold a respectable standard; not with the system itself. That part works if those standards are upheld. It's just that they aren't.
|
|
|
Post by Azerbanjani on Sept 23, 2023 19:32:41 GMT -5
There's at least fifteen things about Arm that are worse than the karma procedure. I might rank it 16th on the list of problems, now that they've made all mundane subclasses universally available. Don't get me wrong, the karma system itself has some problems, but they don't carry as much weight as the fact that the game is super dead in terms of story, the 90s-style statrolling, or the huge problems with combat skillgains. Up until that brain-drain occurred, the karma system worked fine. It's only now, when anyone who's got other places to be has left, that the real problems arise. It was a karma system designed for a time when you could expect most players to be reasonably in tune with the fundamental concept of roleplaying. That's no longer the case. Nevertheless, the fault lies with the players, and with the staff's failure to uphold a respectable standard; not with the system itself. That part works if those standards are upheld. It's just that they aren't. Hard agree "By and large, the only serious problem with the karma system is the fact that the game's population and roleplaying standards are too low to make the stigma of being a magicker count for as much as it should. Other than that, it's fair enough that you need to have played for some time and acquire staff's trust before you get to play a magicker or HG or whatever. It's just that most who still play Arm are so bad at roleplaying that the things that used to impose disadvantages upon these roles no longer really do so." I feel like this is something someone would say and it would just look like idle bitching or something, like you'd read it on the internet and think 'Ah yes, this person just hates the players' But I've legit ran across....I want to say... 3-5 sorcerers 3 muls And countless templars Out of them I've come across 0 sorcerers, 1 mul, and about 2 templars who I haven't outright hated. Not due to an IC hate, but OOC because of how trash they were mechanically at the game or how blatant they were about not caring about the roleplay. Out of two of those templars one was Balthazar and he was just fucking crazy. "That's not really a problem that can be tied specifically to the karma system itself. It's an issue with the way people routinely get away with trash-tier roleplay without facing any consequences for it. If some simpleton can roll up a HG and put out garbage roleplay on a daily basis but still find a clan or group of friends who will include them as one of their own, it's a player problem before anything else." People will tolerate a lot of fucking garbage roleplay when the character archetype boils down to 'Stupid as hell' and 'Strong as hell'. I need my dumb fuck body guard "The good roleplayers left this game during Nyr's tenure. They saw that it was turning to shit and they abandoned ship. Now, Armageddon is left with the ones whose standards were not high enough to give up on it during that time. Those people are simply not good roleplayers, on average, because they're generally not very creative or intelligent. That's what it all comes down to." Not able to comment on this or the comment about the karma system. I assume its mostly correct though.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,035
|
Post by punished ppurg on Sept 23, 2023 22:51:52 GMT -5
Producer Usiku (spoke behind the curtain with the r/MUD admins and) put a "2023" update for Armageddon on everyone's favorite reddit page. r/MUD has been practically dead since the crackdown on drama bombs, but that's neither here nor there. www.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/16lqbmi/armageddon_a_2023_update_rpi_mud/In response to one of the comments, Usiku claims that they've looked over the past 10-15 years of staff complaints, identified a "problem [that was] systemic" with the resolution of those complaints, and is working to resolve things. There's a decent back and forth with some comments below the advertisement that is mostly comprised of an autopsy over the Looonsh situation. The good thing about engaging in dialogue in "neutral ground" is that there's no fear of reprisal for asking the hard questions — the ones that, as we remember, caused the entire GDB to be pulled down when the Looonshfire was going in full blaze. What I see is, still to this day, a passion for the concept & idea of Arm; that comes with the baggage of being hurt (or having one's trust injured) in the staff system.
I look back at my ban from Armageddon. I was banned (by presumably Oleupata) on or thereabouts of 2-27-2023, because I was watching the fireworks in the Armageddon discord. There was conversation about "what even is the shadowboard", and someone responded "they're DARKCHAT." I replied to that message with a cheeky "don't you dare", and I was immediately banned. Long story short, some internet freakshow likes to say I was associated with DARKCHAT because it befuddles people in another corner of the internet; so, I had to reflexively defend the shadowboard's reputation! I put in this ticket. It was after I submitted that ticket that I wrote the mudfucking post, here, in which I accused Gynesis and Shalooonsh's characters (Looonsh's oocly corrupt noble & Gyn's staff PC) of canoodling in-game, of which I had on juicy gossip at the time. Let's say I was a little heated and caught up in the bloodlust of the revolution with my rhetoric. As hindsight would show it, nothing really came out of my bounty post aside from delirium's disappointment in me. The innuendo about Gynesis and Shalooonsh that I had posted, appeared to be just that - and that's a regrettable mistake on my part, and I apologize to Gynesis and those I offended by putting forth those staining allegations that, again, were proven wrong in the test of time. Though the "spirit of the times" were heated, it didn't justify that level of hostility and besmirchment. And I owe a domestic violence charity $100 plus interest. Oleupata would step down from staff mid-March I believe. Meaning that my only encounter with her was that she spotted me on site, banned me from the Arm discord for rejecting association with Sindome Turkish insurgents; and then informed me that I now had a game ban when she got around to answering my discord appeal. And then she left staff. So, I went forward with the ban amnesty invite that Halaster did to all. I've posted the contents before, but here's a link for posterity's sake. Unlike what most of us were expecting, we were "lightly grilled" in the ban appeal process with questions. Either someone on the team pointed it out to Halaster, or he came here and read through my post history. Because he called me out on the mudfucking post by quote: What I mean to say by dredging all of this up. Usiku's rhetoric in the r/MUD post could be called a healing signal; but if he's talking about a "systemic problem" with the way that Armageddon has handled its complaints and appeals in the past, here's my example. "You do not have any recent activity that shows you have any interest in seeing the game heal", being a secondary nail in the proverbial coffin; well, isn't the ban appeal supposed to be that good faith effort? Isn't the dialogue, isn't the tone down of rhetoric over that past month the effort? If Halaster had said something along the lines of, "This was hurtful", I most likely would have apologized then. Instead of doubling down on the bounty post. And I'd like to point out that it was a month, not a week, as Halaster states. The posts are all there. I mean, if you really want to besmirch me, you can scramble my account password (like buddy Nyr did to my first account almost a decade back) to prevent me from proving these dates from your database records; and THEN say that I'm manipulating dates somehow. That would be along the lines of the IP-leaking tracking pixels in private messages, etc. that we've come to expect from the Armageddon staff team. What I mean to say is, everyone involved has capital-T Trauma. And it's the game's prerogative to allow or deny anybody access to their private game: Armageddon isn't a public game, and they have the right to deny anyone at any time for any reason. But the Usiku dialogue in the r/MUD comments that I'm reading, is very different than the experience I had when I came looking to apologize in late March. I don't see how those things can be true, and my situation be as it has been.
|
|