grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Mar 11, 2017 8:35:20 GMT -5
That's utter bullshit then. That's a classic example of the rules only apply to you, not to me. Staff made excuses for Qoriya fucking over so many plots, murdering so many characters, and saying, she's just doing her job. It's one thing to conveniently "forget" a few incidences in one's life in the presence of psionicists, if your character is suitably clever. It's another thing to forget one's whole skillset and inherent nature. I'd say something in defence of Nyr, but then there's that story of someone who had a mindbender who was working for the Allanaki Templarate and keeping a VERY low profile, and staff basically dinged THEM because, well, somebody surely would have noticed by now.
EDIT: I guess the Arm of the Dragon has a computer for the statistical analysis of information and conclusively determined that so and so is a mindbender because they're too good at their job and if you do the math it's impossible for them to be right in so many cases. In light of that, it's not such a stretch to say that staff does indeed selectively enforce their rules no matter what they lie and tell the playerbase. When you get force-stored or noticed by the virtual environment beyond a we don't give a shit level, you know you have a massive target painted on your back by some neckbearded grease-hound who has an epic rageboner because you fucked with their buddy's plot and it doesn't matter how ICly warranted it was, you don't fuck with an admin's pet no matter how much they fuck with you. But then, we all already knew that. Yeah, I can definitely perceive the pattern.
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A Girl
staff puppet account
"And what do you say to Staff?" "Not today."
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Post by A Girl on Mar 11, 2017 10:17:40 GMT -5
I can't speak for what happened in the second instance. For what happened in the first, I was sitting, waiting, watching for the chance. If Terissa would have messed up in such a way as to allow me to animate a response from the templarate, I would have. I too, thought it was shitty and terrible form. HOWEVER, I didn't want to be that asshole staffer that decides on a whim that 'oh, they would have known by now' (as in your second example). I think that if it truly is the case that someone did what you have listed in the second example, it's terrible form. If it's not something another PC could have gleaned in the same circumstances as the npc world, it's pretty fucked up and unfair to give them arbitrary knowledge of things that no player could hope to achieve, and then railroad their character into dying.
I dislike Nyr, and I dislike the choice made in the second example there, but it would've been shitty to just up and decide things the way it would seem they were up and decided in your second example. I personally think that you should just... always have it in your background, if you are a sorcerer, psionic, or a witch, of any stripe. Even if it's just a note at the end like [OOC: They're a vivaduan, but they haven't manifested yet, and don't even know, themselves.] Because that would keep stupid shit like what happened with Terissa from happening again. And I want to believe that the ability to probe someone's background bio is rarer in the south than it was amid templars of the Lirathan order, leaving mostly people who, themselves, have a reason to hide, as the ones aware of this, as opposed to people who can murderize the shit out of you with npc bodyguards.
As for Qoriya and the plots... she actually didn't break any rules, and was fully in line with the IC outline for what someone of her guild and social status with her job position should be doing. Was it terrible and extremely destructive to players plots, and actual intrigue in the north? Yes, 1000%, hands down, without a doubt. That is not, however, doing a bad job or breaking rules playing a Lirathan Templar. That is playing a Lirathan Templar to the hilt. The guild and niche and role itself were terrible for the game and any sort of subversive activity. Lirathan Templars are one of the few things I thought were a very good decision to remove. The player can't be faulted for basically being an achiever and doing 'too well' at their really poorly designed job that they were sponsored into the game to do. That's on the people who created lirathans in the first place, imo.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Mar 11, 2017 11:24:40 GMT -5
I am not sure, I only remember reading about it from the player's perspective. It's entirely possible they DID slip up somewhere, but I can never pick out a mindbender for sure ICly, so when a mindbender starts bugging me I usually just have my character think oh, that was just the wind, or ouch, that spice comedown came back to bite me. I'm unsure how someone could realisticly even pick it out ICly, unless they'd actually studied up IC, or had massive experience with mindworms, and just happened to isolate the case under very specific circumstances. I don't know how anyone else could, either, which is the hint I try to drop to people who're trying to play "find the mindworm" when I tell them, just pretend such things don't exist, it's a lot easier and effective that way. Tell me, do you really want to go toe to toe with something that can do what a mindwitch can? What's the benefit? So, best to just, stick your head in the sand and hope it goes away.
I mean, having all the factors necessary align takes some serious, serious mistakes, and I would think, it would be much, much rarer... unless the Templars are also mindworms. "Find the mindworm" has always struck me as far-fetched, unexplainable metagaming much like, see through the hood and facewrap. As such, I've tried never to engage in such, or respond ICly with anything other than a dismissal and a handwave when plots involving such come to my attention.
Plus, how do you disprove the rumor that you're a mindworm, nilazi or sorc? So, I would react to claims that someone is one of those with extreme skepticism if brought to me ICly, and begin to suspect the one spreading the rumor as trying to deflect suspicion, if I was a Templar, and grill them mercilessly before tossing them out and telling them to stop wasting my time.
EDIT: Although, it is kind of bad for the balance of things when you have mindworm aides running around. They're ALREADY able to seriously screw up your day.
I feel all these issues really come down to are perspective, communication, and respect for players as volunteers too. If staff could just get past that, and if Nergal actually took himself seriously when he said banning was a LAST resort instead of just banning people midsentence for flimsy accusations with little reasonable proof, that aren't even hurting anything, then that would be a massive step in the right direction. I would drop my distaste for staff immediately... though I probably would not return to playing for years because this all is just, too much.
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baobob
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
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Post by baobob on Mar 11, 2017 11:49:10 GMT -5
Discouraging: gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,52312.0/topicseen.html Why is the staff baiting and trolling the unhappy readers of the GDB? It is not funny to taunt and mock behind your privileged power. Unkind. Not helpful. Edit: I incorrectly interpreted bcw81 as the author of the post. I was wrong here. Apologies. |
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Mar 11, 2017 11:55:30 GMT -5
Well, I mean, what did the post actually say? It was probably moderated because the title appears to be mocking another thread where things got quite heated, and the players who voiced their opinions of staff... but then, I don't know what it said.
EDIT: When the thread title is
Staff, I want to make passive-aggressive remarks but have no discourse
Then it kind of seems like BCW81 moderated a troll post that belittled players for making their opinion posts on general principle... unless you're accusing him of altering the post title snarkilly... which I don't know, doesn't seem like something he'd do to me, maybe he is sort of an asshole but never struck me as someone who would do that. Without a screenshot of the original post I'm unsure what to make of that.
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Post by nonononames on Mar 11, 2017 12:18:19 GMT -5
That was the original title, and the content was exactly what you assumed, grumble.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Mar 11, 2017 12:28:26 GMT -5
If that is indeed the case, Nonononames, then I fail to see how Bcw is the asshole here, because to all appearances he moderated the post of some sycophantic troll, I keep thinking I must have misread Baobob's post, or Baobob made an assumption, because I would think that the right thing to do given the situation. It looks like he just bitch-slapped a kiss-ass for being disrespectful to dissenting opinions.
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A Girl
staff puppet account
"And what do you say to Staff?" "Not today."
Posts: 35
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Post by A Girl on Mar 11, 2017 12:29:47 GMT -5
Yeah. Killing Dar's thread last night was shitty. This morning, metekillot made a trollish as hell post along the lines of mocking people, and it got deleted. The killing of Dar's attempt to seek out more information on what Nergal would've found 'not' offensive or 'trolly' using a quote from him was not opening up an old thread. It was asking for just what Nergal suggested, and for the parameters for how to do so. Metekillot on the other hand was pretty blatantly shitposting.
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A Girl
staff puppet account
"And what do you say to Staff?" "Not today."
Posts: 35
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Post by A Girl on Mar 11, 2017 12:32:28 GMT -5
Baobab made an assumption that is typically a pretty safe one to make, I believe. In this case, it was incorrect. Then, I'm assuming that Baobab didn't get the chance to read it before it got moved to moderation, where I did get the chance to. It was basically 2-3 sentences mocking people for dissenting against Nergal.
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A Girl
staff puppet account
"And what do you say to Staff?" "Not today."
Posts: 35
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Post by A Girl on Mar 11, 2017 12:36:46 GMT -5
Discouraging: gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,52312.0/topicseen.html bcw81 is an alt-account for a current staff member. Why is the staff baiting and trolling the unhappy readers of the GDB? It is not funny to taunt and mock behind your privileged power. Unkind. Not helpful. While 9/10 times I can agree with you, the thread was mocking people (I believe Dar specifically)for not being okay with shit just being swept away and asking for how to have a recourse that wouldn't be found NOT reasonable, so in this case, it seems actually kind and helpful, as the entire point was to mock someone and try to get them to lash out. |
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baobob
Clueless newb
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Post by baobob on Mar 11, 2017 12:37:53 GMT -5
Yep. Apparently I was wrong. I thought that bcw81 wrote the post that was moderated. Wrong, wrong Baobab. Oops. Apologies. Bcw81 did right, I was quite incorrect.
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A Girl
staff puppet account
"And what do you say to Staff?" "Not today."
Posts: 35
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Post by A Girl on Mar 11, 2017 12:39:47 GMT -5
It happens. <3
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Mar 11, 2017 12:42:13 GMT -5
Yeah, when I read that thread title my first thought was Metekillot. The second was Malkin but he's not quite as much of a shitposter and has more sense, the third was Evil Cabbage but he actually does have manners and occassionally a useful thing to say that isn't speaking of the migratory patterns of cabbages or something.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 11, 2017 13:19:44 GMT -5
I gotta step in here, and say, complaints of Jon Snow Raptor_Dan are (most assuredly) made without context. He's in the shitty position of being married to a wildling while still being stationed on the Wall. And we all know what happens there. First it looks like the girl get fucked over, and then (what are perceived as) his own men turn on him. When they banned my IP instead of my forum account earlier today (despite the fact that everything was properly censored and I was only giving the context that Noted Liar Nergal "wanted to spare me the embarassment" of), he, too, wound up banned. Intentional or no, there's no email for him to say one way or the other. His posts make a lot more sense now, I'll say that. I gather deception isn't his bag? BFB said -- "He's an emotionally delicate man-child who had a meltdown in the first couple pages of the thread at just the hint of a possibility that mommy and daddy were fighting." Agirl said-- "I gotta step in here, and say, complaints of Jon Snow Raptor_Dan are (most assuredly) made without context." Well, that's still a pretty accurate description. I actually tried the cognitive dissonance thing, and that's what trying to believe it turns you into. Toast-smelling rage-idiot. Ha! Fair enough. Why aren't you posting as your original handle over here, though? Oh, Noted Liar Nergal did it, he couldn't handle the heat so he locked off the kitchen... sorry about those burning corpses left inside, it had to be done because nobody wants to actually take seriously the kind of harm staff has and is doing to the game with their policies and how they've handled something, someone might be implicated otherwise. You're really on a roll today. Damn. I actually have to say, I'm not in favor of "softening" the atmosphere of the game with yet more rules that prohibit what players can or can't do, and I've had a few unfavorable encounters with admin animations, that while they left me saying, seriously, wtf?, I didn't complain about or object to (because despite some of them being rather terrible, I didn't feel like I'd just gotten a super-statted NPC dropped on my head for doing something somebody else didn't approve of, but genuinely felt this was a situation that was RPed out and I possibly could have avoided the consequences if I'd interacted differently). Shit like this is why you are not a cliquey retard and shouldn't worry you've been lumped in with them. |
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
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Post by punished ppurg on Mar 11, 2017 13:51:16 GMT -5
Let me say, as a Space Station 13 Administrator (for the past few years), I am the Stanford Prison Experiment. And I would never in my life entertain the thought of speaking to any single player, even the worst, as I have seen others spoken to and myself have been spoken to by the staff team of this MUD.
"Nergal" has to realize one thing; although he can make fun of this strawman assumption spinning the admin team as a bunch of colluding anti-socials in the present day, he can't ignore the fact that this has in-fact been a repeated occurrence throughout the game's history. Take, for instance, my Arm of the Dragon complaint. The terrible trio of Cavaticus -> Talia -> Nyr were constantly denying that they had done any wrong, and Nyr was purposefully closing my complaints, stopping other Producers at the time from addressing them (although, after much persistence, I still got terrible responses from Adhira and Nessalin after Nyr poisoned the well and misled them about the situation). Why was this, you may ask?
Was it because Cavaticus, Talia, and Nyr every so often rented a beach house on the Outer Banks (my backyard) for a week to drive out and get drunk at? This is something they bragged about doing, would make announcements on the forum about doing so, and then in Teamspeak would clearly be speaking through the same "source" account; it's undeniable that this was something that happened. Since these staff members were so pitifully poor at being reasonable or rational in dealing with conflicts which involved just their own screw-ups, how on earth is it possible that they could be level-headed, impartial judges of the screw-ups of their IRL beach-hut buddies? If it's my word vs. your alcohol-abusing compatriot, I'm going to lose every time; and I did lose, every time, because the staff complaint system is a complete joke with no means of external accountability. The staff team can propagate these little snippets of their internal rules and by-laws and procedures all they want — I know for a fact they don't follow them, because many (myself concluded) have suffered from the dangerous assumption that they would follow their own rules.
Take a moment, then, to consider a point I still raise to this day, even after all the tequila trio of CaTaliNyr are "gone"; why didn't anyone on the staff team notice the nepotism there? Why are all three still in good standing with the MUD, when they have provably abused their volunteer title to shuck off the consequences of their many failures, much to the anguish of everyone involved? And why is it that a player looking to hold the staff team accountable for this incestuous bureaucracy is the one who catches the hate, from both the staff team and its player sycophants alike?
I don't care what your rules are, Nergal, because you and yours have repeatedly violated them with no consequence. You may as well have no rules. Drop this pretense of being reasonable and sensible, because I know for a fact there is no such thing in your administration. What good is a promise that's not kept? I've always been openly critical of this staff team because, as an administrator myself, I know if I tried to get away with 1/10th of the dysfunction that goes on in ArmageddonMUD regularly, I would be openly excoriated by players and staffers alike; and that would be a good thing. If Nergal wants to demonstrate he's more than a ball of hot air, he needs to get his house in order. Covering for little storyteller on the totem pole who got out-of-line in that staff animation is just another example of the extreme nepotism Nyr and co. demonstrated, as none of the present staffers are capable of accepting they are not always right — that someone among them has done something wrong, and they are going to meet every single complaint with that bull-headed outlook. It's going to drive your game into the ground, because eventually you're going to get tired of damage control, and the uncensored discussion we are having is going to outweigh to the Orwellian double-think you're propagating on the alt-shadowboard so much that you won't have any hope of maintaining new players: they will arrive to these documented facts — the bones and grief of players before them who thought they had a fair shot — and they're going to turn away.
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