Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 18:08:01 GMT -5
But LOL at Delerium saying to "discuss the matter with staff if you have an issue."
Hey, sister, I tried that. It didn't really work out very well for me. In fact, nyr flung it in my face... on the GDB... that I had even bothered to go that far. Then banned me so I wouldn't be able to respond.
I'm not saying the current staff are necessarily like that, but, sometimes when you have an issue with the staff... discussing it through requests or something like that gets you absolutely nowhere.
I mean, heh, when the guy you're sending in complaints about it literally the one answering them, as was the case with Nyr, well, how in he hell can you refer to that as some sort of emergent fairness.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 18:09:46 GMT -5
I think, when you feel like you've exhausted your attempts at behind-the-curtain discussions, you should find some other way to discuss the matter.
if someone despises you, there's only so far you can get when it comes to having a private dialogue.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 19:08:07 GMT -5
I know this has already been underlined, but Noted Liar Nergal's "and other ways that I can't really think of right now" phrase on page 11 is *fucking golden*
😂😂😂
l
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 19:30:38 GMT -5
Fathi, coming through:
"I choose not to be salty about that screwup anymore because mistakes happen. But a pattern of mistakes--or a pattern of behaviour that leads toward players starting to feel over a period of years that they are being singled out--does deserve looking at, I think. I'm just not sure what the ultimate answer is."
I think what Fathi's trying to say is that, when a staff member (like Nyr) keeps acting like a fucking ass clown, well, it shouldn't be ignored... but there aren't really any easy solutions when the person who is supposed to be the face/leader of the game continually makes it and the rest of the staff similarly look like ass clowns. It's a tough spot, and she's right.
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A Girl
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Post by A Girl on Mar 16, 2017 19:41:21 GMT -5
Fathi, coming through: "a pattern of behaviour that leads toward players starting to feel over a period of years that they are being singled out--does deserve looking at" sort of the heart of why I had even put in the request I wound up posting here. none of what happened in that single log instance was 'that' bad, it wasn't a complaint nor was it filed that way, when you look at the screenshot posted. it was a question and pointing out what was becoming a pattern of behavior, and then it was doubled down on after being dismissed, with the very next pc, with someone going from animating vennant to lie to a pc's mate and say she was publicly fucking someone she was meeting with for employment screening for her boss, to bringing it up to 12 by animating an npc clan superior to demand a sex act and call said pc, again, a whore, when it was declined. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 19:54:36 GMT -5
Okay, I finally finished it.
The main difference between the two threads... is that one ended after a former staffer posted about of the staff fucking up on a deeply entrenched ideal, and the other is still open to posts.
Listen, I understand - a little bit - the staff trying to defend the catcalling of a female PC. Just a little bit. But it is pretty indefensible when put up against the sexism doctrine... it doesn't look good at all.
In a place like Allanak, that character probably would get catcalled, but, just like we aren't supposed to pursue rape plots, we're not really supppsed to impose mentalities like "if she dresses slutty, let's treat her like a slut, because the slut deserves it." I'd be curious to see what a feminist like Sanvean has to say, specifically, about that situation.
I agree with Armaddict's no banning post there at the end.
Nergal made an attempt to point out that banning is only used as a last resort, but Christ, when I made an attempt to come back to the GDB, I got permanently banned for refusing to put up with Malken acting like a petulant little shithead and mouthed off back at him.
Which one of us is still permanently banned?
My first and *only other ban* from the GDB was because I asked about an old problem of mine on *ask the staff,* Nyr got defensive, started a public argument then banned me for responding to it. What, was I just supposed to sit there and not say anything back to him? Just like Malken?
I got banned, presumably, for flaming back at those who flamed me... but let's be real, it has nothing to do with those instances and everything to do with attempting to air grievances on the shadowboard. Those instances were merely a shoddy justification, otherwise Malken would have been banned as well.
Double standards, but in thinking of cliquey retards, I guess that's what House Kawaii will get you.
But who is the one merely whining about how "the game is now just so boring omg," and who is it that still just believes it sucks to continually get shat on because of grudges and shit that happened years ago?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 0:15:53 GMT -5
Interestingly, about the same amount of views on both threads. Less than a hundred comments on this one which seems natural because of those who deleted accounts.
Still... the same number of views.
Maybe I'm naive for that surprising me a little bit, but, hey... I think those numbers say something, unquestionably.
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A Girl
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Post by A Girl on Mar 17, 2017 2:20:47 GMT -5
Listen, I understand - a little bit - the staff trying to defend the catcalling of a female PC. Just a little bit. But it is pretty indefensible when put up against the sexism doctrine... it doesn't look good at all. In a place like Allanak, that character probably would get catcalled, but, just like we aren't supposed to pursue rape plots, we're not really supppsed to impose mentalities like "if she dresses slutty, let's treat her like a slut, because the slut deserves it." I'd be curious to see what a feminist like Sanvean has to say, specifically, about that situation. If it was catcalling or even propositioning I could see it. Wouldn't have even been something to bat a lash over. I wouldn't say that 'cat calling' accurately describes what happened, wherein an npc decides he's going to try and ruin her using her sexuality, to her employers, after she refused to give him a necklace that was given to her by Aanson Sath (which she'd ironically tried to give away to her noble before ever wearing it), and then after various sexual goadings, they then turned around and animated Vennant, and entirely DIFFERENT npc to lie directly to her mate and claim she was publicly fucking someone else to... ruin her sexually. Catcalling, I get, and yes, I would have expected it in an ankle length skirt or no, the pc was attractive enough and well groomed. What actually 'happened' though... not really catcalling. |
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punished ppurg
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Post by punished ppurg on Mar 17, 2017 7:45:31 GMT -5
It speaks to the ignorance of whatever staffer hamfisted that animation in regards to the Allanaki culture. Trying to socially ruin someone by slandering them with sexual allegations? What is this, Tuluk? This was probably a former Tuluki staffer / someone who only played in Tuluk before it closed, and joined staff shortly afterwards.
Where would be the animation given to the Noble Lord or Lady who would very much be in his/her right to execute that third-class citizen for slandering one of the House's assets? I'd bet that it would never happen. Staff are so damned one-sided, always animating a "world response" to gimp and ruin the efforts of a PC, never capable of even considering that the PC would be in-turn capable of generating a "response to the world", which would end up with your precious VNPC being executed like they should.
"Could you animate that stinky dwarf that verbally infringed upon my aide in the Gaj? I've bought off this Templar and we're going to Cuddle him to death." Cue waiting 5-7 days for a response in the request tool: "No. You can't find the dwarf." Guarantee you that would be the dialogue. This is the result of a body of ignorant staffmembers who don't have the first idea about storytelling; they take this sort of inquiry as an insult to their divine animation skillz, and as such there is no plot arc nor climax short of a one-scene trick abortion like what's been displayed in this thread. Frankly, I expect better from someone who volunteered to do this. Unpaid.
Edit: And you know what? Proof contrapositive to this fact.
If staff animations are held accountable to the world, and this player was able to pursue revenge on this accuser, then this character would NOT have committed suicide.
Reverse of logical statement:
If staff animations are NOT held accountable to the world, or this player was not able to pursue revenge on this accuser, then this character WOULD commit suicide. Which is exactly the case here as it's been described. (Or more accurately, if this character WOULD commit suicide, then etc.)
Proof by way of the reverse; seeing as this player knew OOCly that there would never be an opportunity to right the wrongs of this animated slander, they went and off'd themselves with the intention of starting up a new character that wasn't in the fire-sights of some begrudged, ignorant staff member. This is the observable truth as it's been displayed.
Make sense? Anyone who has ever built a truth table knows that P->Q is equivalent to ~Q->~P.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 10:46:15 GMT -5
Yeah, those quoted excerpts are pretty ridiculous. I realize I don't have full context, but, yeah, c'mon.
I feel like the fact Anaiah has posted here a lot in the past probably makes negative plots like that more likely to happen to her - which is one reason I'm reluctant to even try playing again.
I feel like people such as Yam being dismissive of a lot like that isn't very helpful, especially when it's posted on a thread about openness/communication.
Admitting that the animations go against the sexism doctrine within that thread or *at least* offering some sort of explanation would have been a better course of action, to me, than locking the thread. Nergal's closing comments are, to me, a little disappointing... and I am not trying to needle him for the sake of needling him or act like a troll, but that sorta harrasssment just, to me, has been something that most of us have been guided away from.
I'm trying to express this in a non-trolly and honest way.
Nergal and other staffers might cite it being a contemporary character that prevents them from discussing it on the GDB, but I think the fact that the animations were in kinda poor form and are a little indefensible might have more to do with the locking of the thread. I'd be curious to know whether or not others "strongly suggested" to Nergal to close the thread.
Also, Reiloth: I'm not quite sure as to the particulars of his situation, like, at all, but i have to wonder if he and others ever would have bothered to strive for an open discourse had this board not turned into what it is.
Anyway, I think the way Nergal at least tried to have the conversation without banning him and deleting his posts is, on a fundamental level, much more than Nyr could have mustered. I'm not saying he was perfect in his responses - or that I ageee 100% - but at least some semblance of an attempt was made. Again, anyone who dealt with Nyr should realize that it's far more than he would have done.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 10:54:02 GMT -5
I agree with triple P about the slandering house assets part... I feel like, almost always, if an imm has negative feelings toward you, then - just like with the case of Nyr animating one of Sharlo Kadius' superiors shortly after taking control of the Kadian clan to throw Sharlo under the bus to the templerate - the animations they put forth will seldom ever be good animations, or animations that do anything but hurt you. I mean, even after taking over the clan, Nyr did not once animate a leadership NPC until it was for maneuvering in such a way as to kill a long-established leadership character. And he never used that NPC to contact Sharlo in game, even after using it to meet with the templarate and condemn a long-lived, senior agent who could mastercraft metal.
And the only way I ever found out about that was because of someone IRL telling me, face to face. Hmm.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 11:04:09 GMT -5
Maybe some of the newer staff members/players weren't around in the days when Sanvean aggressively fought against RL sexism/slut shaming carrying over to Arm at every turn, but I feel like those of us who were kinda "get" why Anaiah's log/excerpts seem to be in poor form.
In the Tan Muark, for instance, promiscuity was literally a part of the culture that Sanvean helped create.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2017 11:17:19 GMT -5
For example, I got in trouble once - alongside a certain Indian player - for proposing a BDSM merchant house party, like Eyes Wide Shut style before that movie was even released, and Sanvean struck down the idea quickly, feeling as though females might be objectified in a RL fashion on Arm... and just like she steered us away from that, I think she would steer whoever the imm that did those animations... away from them.
I would probably say that, if any player other than a shadowboard poster had been the recepient of those animations, Adhira, who was around during previous eras just like I was... would probably caution against repeats of that type of animation in the future. At least, I hope she would.
And I hope this seems like a rational, not a trollish stance. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 17, 2017 12:39:47 GMT -5
Where would be the animation given to the Noble Lord or Lady who would very much be in his/her right to execute that third-class citizen for slandering one of the House's assets? I'd bet that it would never happen. Staff are so damned one-sided, always animating a "world response" to gimp and ruin the efforts of a PC, never capable of even considering that the PC would be in-turn capable of generating a "response to the world", which would end up with your precious VNPC being executed like they should. Because they're punishing you for playing within the rules and setting in a manner they personally find distasteful. You also want positive animations?!? Your reward is an absence of punishment! The neckbearded basement troll dings the karma of the purg-faced purgish purg. (Reason: Being an ingrateful, stupid peasant.)Recall how several pages of septuple-posts ago I mentioned cliquey retards OOCly harass people simply for not liking them? Look at what Nergal's response to A Girl ended with: I am not trying to be mean when I say the above, or the following: you need to understand that this entire game is a collaborative effort that hinges on people playing fairly typical characters for the setting. If you seek to play the exception over and over, you are going to get exceptional treatment, over and over, and it will often skew to the negative. Be more mindful of the lines and find ways to be creative while mostly staying within them. It is definitely doable and many players play compelling character swhile bearing in mind that their characters are truly Zalanthan. So what was it A Girl's character did that was not in keeping with Zalanthas? She played a noble's aide following the orders of her noble, and she went into a dive bar frequented by people nobles hire wearing clothes that mostly covered her. I'm still of the belief the idiot staffer who pulled that crap was a Tuluki staffer who didn't bother to learn Allanak. In Nak, noble's aides are only used for three things: 1) on-call human sex toys, 2) eavesdroppers, and 3) a go-between for nobles and the filthy peasants nobles hire for filthy peasant tasks. Hiring filthy peasants and eavesdropping are also why merchant house employees use the Gaj. The notion a noble's aide would be openly robbed in the Gaj is absurd. It's not one of the gang taverns in the fucking Rinth. That's a potential employer for the people around you or a vengeful noble's pleasure toy you're thinking of rolling. You mug them while they're tipsy and walking home, and you don't take several hours trying to do it. Now... if A Girl had gone into a Rinthi tavern dressed like she was (meaning middle class) we wouldn't be discussing the results. In that scenario I'd say I was surprised the dwarf wasn't demanding she hand over the necklace while murdering her, then kicking her corpse for bleeding on the necklace. |
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A Girl
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Post by A Girl on Mar 17, 2017 12:43:34 GMT -5
Nah, that's pretty much spot on. And even after Sanvean left, when I was on staff, nothing like this was happening and if it was, it would've been looked at with some pretty sharp horror at the way it not only conflicts with the documentation but also for the fact that the entire purpose of it was to harm a pc, and then throw in that it wasn't just one animation, it was two, as both the mate and the potential field aide were both talking about how Vennant was animated JUST to talk about how she was dressed and tell the mate that she was in the roasting pits fucking the potential field aide.
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