blargle
Clueless newb
Beast Master
Posts: 63
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Post by blargle on Nov 3, 2015 11:23:29 GMT -5
(I'm putting this here as well since we have two threads running.)
Well guys, we got what we wanted.
I'm not as excited about Nyr stepping down as I am about Rathustra stepping up.
I have dealt A LOT with Rathustra on some projects and I can tell you he has told me NO for pretty much every single thing I have ever asked him for...and you know what...I still think he's one of the best staffers the game has.
It's not about telling someone NO. It's not about disappointing them IC with your animations. It's about how you speak to them as human beings....and we finally have someone as a Producer who knows how to do that publicly.
(Not bashing Adhira. As I've stated, I'm sure she's great and a good person, I just don't know I've ever dealt with her personally or really seen her present herself enough as a public presence to make up for the other two and their very public presence.)
I implore all of you to come back to the game. You voted with your feet and spent years here literally saying if this man would go away you would come back. Well, that time has come.
One thing I will request (if you allow it) is that you DO NOT go to the GDB gloating about this.
You got your victory. Everyone knows you got your victory. Everyone knows they finally realized you were right all along.
YOU WON.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
You were victorious.
Please take your victory with humility and be the example of how to act. We have a very positive foundation to work from here so let's move forward with some positivity and finally try and heal our environment.
I was only here a single week. Some of you were here for a very long time. I want to thank all of you for making that sacrifice. I was prepared to be here for a very long time but I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have to be.
Let's get back in the game and get back to making Armageddon what it used to be!!!
Victory? The hell are you going on about? Nowhere was it stated that he is retiring and not coming back. Why should people who quit because of their negative experience with staff, and Nyr in particular, come back now when he may become active again in a month?
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 11:24:05 GMT -5
Not to mention. Much of the problems with Armageddon might have started out as Nyr-specific (and even that is largely a fable of this board - it has as much to do with Nessalin and Adhira as well. Perhaps even more on those two than any other), but by now, it's become largely institutional. The departure of one person (who isn't even really departed, and is still going to be hanging around, logging in, and talking to them in staff chat) will not change things on a dime. It would require a whole culture change. You'd literally have to get rid of Nyr, Adhira, Nessalin, and then have those three completely sever contact with the game, like Sanvean did, and have all new people, for things to really have the opportunity to evolve in a significantly different direction. Makes sense. Senior staff teach newer staff their methods and protocols for doing things and it seems right because "Hey, that's the way they did it before I got here so I'll do it that way." and usually that's a good thing because usually the way people did things before was the best known way. You might be right. It might not help anything.
But consider this:
A) We sit around and do nothing because we didn't get every single thing we wanted. Nyr goes away. Player numbers stay low. No vets return on the cusp of his leaving. It appears him leaving did nothing. It appears him leaving didn't make anyone happy. Apparently, he represented absolutely nothing that was wrong with the game. You know what? The entire "Shadow Board" was crying this whole time about him, and none of them even really cared apparently. They just wanted to cry. Nyr wasn't the problem and didn't even represent a problem apparently.
B) Nyr leaves and 20+ vets return to the game overnight. Apparently what Nyr represented as a whole really was the problem all along. What Nyr represented as a whole really IS a huge issue we need to take seriously. The game is now alive in ways it hasn't been in 5 - 10 years. Holy shit I can't believe one single vicious turd leaving was enough to turn things around this much. We need to LEARN from this. We need to take this lesson and run with it. If we don't, this COULD go down hill again.
Neither of those could happen. I agree.
But, I would like to take my chances with option B. Because taking my chances with option A is not only self-defeating, but, it is honestly a pretty stupid approach to winning any sort of "war". It's the equivalent of staying in your mom's basement because the pretty girl could possibly never love you instead of giving her flowers and seeing how far that gets you. She might still reject you, but it won't be because you were a forever-scorned neckbeard loser who couldn't even man up to take the chance.
Go get your girl I say.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 11:24:51 GMT -5
(I'm putting this here as well since we have two threads running.)
Well guys, we got what we wanted.
I'm not as excited about Nyr stepping down as I am about Rathustra stepping up.
I have dealt A LOT with Rathustra on some projects and I can tell you he has told me NO for pretty much every single thing I have ever asked him for...and you know what...I still think he's one of the best staffers the game has.
It's not about telling someone NO. It's not about disappointing them IC with your animations. It's about how you speak to them as human beings....and we finally have someone as a Producer who knows how to do that publicly.
(Not bashing Adhira. As I've stated, I'm sure she's great and a good person, I just don't know I've ever dealt with her personally or really seen her present herself enough as a public presence to make up for the other two and their very public presence.)
I implore all of you to come back to the game. You voted with your feet and spent years here literally saying if this man would go away you would come back. Well, that time has come.
One thing I will request (if you allow it) is that you DO NOT go to the GDB gloating about this.
You got your victory. Everyone knows you got your victory. Everyone knows they finally realized you were right all along.
YOU WON.
PLAIN AND SIMPLE.
You were victorious.
Please take your victory with humility and be the example of how to act. We have a very positive foundation to work from here so let's move forward with some positivity and finally try and heal our environment.
I was only here a single week. Some of you were here for a very long time. I want to thank all of you for making that sacrifice. I was prepared to be here for a very long time but I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have to be.
Let's get back in the game and get back to making Armageddon what it used to be!!!
Victory? The hell are you going on about? Nowhere was it stated that he is retiring and not coming back. Why should people who quit because of their negative experience with staff, and Nyr in particular, come back now when he may become active again in a month? See my post above. It covers this mindset.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 11:59:10 GMT -5
Dropping this here so it doesn't get lost in the Shoutbox.
If you do plan coming back now, or even if this change has you considering coming back seriously, I highly recommend you drop over to the GDB and post a humble post saying you are coming back.
Why?
Because you can very publicly make a simple statement to everyone that changes like this matter and it does get players back when people start listening.
I do respectfully request that you keep your "coming back post" civil and amiable. Be the change you want to see and voice the fact that they are doing the right things for the health of the game and you agree with that direction.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 12:36:00 GMT -5
Well, even if I wanted to, I was banned the other day for posting on the GDB asking them to acknowledge the divide between players and staff. In fact, Nyr responded by asking us, the departed veterans, to get in touch with them and discuss what would bring us back to the game... and then he banned me, without even informing me in any way. Not even some automated "you're banned" email. I then sent him the following email:
His response:
I have no notion why he thought I'm Delerak, but I took it as a defense mechanism on his part that made it easier for him to dismiss me if he decided to himself that I'm someone disliked. It got a laugh out of me, but it also illustrated that there was clearly no sincerity behind his invitation to contact them with our grievances.
But then he went on hiatus two days later, so there's that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 12:39:29 GMT -5
sickeningly par for the course. thank fuck that asshat is gone.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Nov 3, 2015 12:45:02 GMT -5
I bet he knew you weren't delerak when he wrote that but wanted to act ignorant to the situation. Like he's so above it all when in actuality he spends half his online time tracing people's ip addresses.
Very compelling email btw. That was superbly written!
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 12:46:14 GMT -5
Well, even if I wanted to, I was banned the other day for my posts on the GDB (Fergie). In fact, Nyr asked us, the departed veterans, to get in touch with them and discuss what would bring us back to the game... and then he banned me, without even informing me in any way. Not even some automated "you're banned" email. I then sent him the following email: His response: I have no notion why he thought I'm Delerak, but I took it as a defense mechanism on his part that made it easier for him to dismiss me if he decided to himself that I'm someone disliked. It got a laugh out of me, but it also illustrated that there was clearly no sincerity behind his invitation to contact them with our grievances. But then he went on hiatus two days later, so there's that. The guy who just banned you and incorrectly guessed about who you were just left the game.
Please submit another request asking that you be unbanned, since the guy who banned you just left the day after he banned you and obviously banned you for incorrectly thinking you were someone else.
This was an obvious error by someone who obviously doesn't need to be in charge of doing this, and now isn't.
If they still refuse to let you play the game I highly recommend you post it back here.
I do however recommend you send in your request a basic short request.
"High. I was Fergie on the GDB. Right before Nyr left the game he banned me for being Delerak. I'm not Delerak. I've never been Delerak. I would like to come back and app a character. I would like to contribute to the game and have fun. That is my only interest. Not old hurt feelings. Not scorn. I just want to not be Delerak, since I'm not, and be allowed to play the game. Thank you.".
Something like that.
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Post by RogueRougeRanger on Nov 3, 2015 12:50:05 GMT -5
So. As far as I know, Nyr didn't start clan caps, the glass ceiling, the closure of Tuluk, or even the stifling weekly report process for leaders. However, he certainly seems in favor of those things, so he's a part of a bigger problem.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 12:50:45 GMT -5
dunno, i'd do that and post the exchange with nyr for the record to them - a part of me still thinks they have humanity: the more they realize what an asshat he is, the better. but don't make a big deal out of it. any human being can see that he was the asshat in that whole exchange, including the gdb exchange, which was just sickening.
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Nov 3, 2015 12:52:36 GMT -5
If nothing changes during Nyr's absence, they'll look at the stats and go, "Well, hurr, it obviously wasn't Nyr's presence causing the game's declining state."
You can show them that veterans want to play, but not under his leadership.
As for the Producers, Adhira has always struck me as weirdly aloof and Nessalin usually sticks to coding and the like. Nyr was the public face and now Rath is moving into that position.
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Post by desertman on Nov 3, 2015 12:54:24 GMT -5
If nothing changes during Nyr's absence, they'll look at the stats and go, "Well, hurr, it obviously wasn't Nyr's presence causing the game's declining state." You can show them that veterans want to play, but not under his leadership. As for the Producers, Adhira has always struck me as weirdly aloof and Nessalin usually sticks to coding and the like. Nyr was the public face and now Rath is moving into that position. Exactly. Even if they didn't WANT Nyr leaving to be about "saving the game".
We have the power to MAKE it about saving the game. We can MAKE him leaving be the reason things turned around even if they didn't want it to be. (Though I do think him leaving had a lot to do with the public outcry they've been getting lately about the bullshit that's been going on.)
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Nov 3, 2015 13:05:57 GMT -5
I've always found Adhira's replies to be reasonable and well worded, with an offered compromise, even if I didn't like the answer I got and maybe pitched a fucking fit... ymmv, personally, my communications with her have not been bad.
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king
Clueless newb
Posts: 118
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Post by king on Nov 3, 2015 13:12:33 GMT -5
Adhira's always been polite and motherly(I guess?), but she's always struck me as distant - almost like it's a bit of a chore to be there on occasion.
I dunno. Maybe she's a lot more active than she seems.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Nov 3, 2015 13:19:46 GMT -5
It would seem being invited to have a discussion with staff via the request tool has a lot of parallels with being asked to meet a Templar for a drink in The Heart.
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