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Post by lyse on Sept 26, 2015 7:58:32 GMT -5
I should be more clear: I find it to be annoying to have someone who admits they no longer play the game spin their broken record about how such and such is an evil king from 2002, or whenever it is they were wronged. It's pretty cool to have shared experiences and all of these perspectives laid out like this. I'm just not a fan of others painting a picture from when TLC was on the radio. It's disineguous imo. To clarify, I'm not claiming you've thrown a temper tantrum. That's in reference to the ol' standard ragequit that pops up now and then. You probably should be more clear, that seems to be a thing on that game. The truth can be a little annoying and sometimes a little inconvenient, especially when you can't delete it or it goes against what you're spinning. But here's the thing, it doesn't matter if it annoys you or not, you can't refute it even now. Sure some things happened a long time ago, I shared someone on staff dropped a mekillot on one of my characters years ago (told me this themselves), got told by people even here, staff don't do that. Then I see a log where staff totally did drop a mekillot on a group and kinda let it rip. Ok fine, I'm over it, but that's not disingenuous. I see correlation. See, when someone says blah happened to me and people say that didn't happen, that person ok my bad. But when someone also says blah happened to me too, well we kind of have a problem. Now it's up to staff to say, hmm maybe we should look at this its pissing people off. Thing is, this isn't only about the mekillot, or putting a door on the guild hq. It's about the many things, that people are upset about that staff decides to ignore....repeatedly. So I'm not sure why staff or you decided to tow the "That happend years ago" line. But if that helps you sleep at night cool. Not everybody rage quits. I'm willing to bet most people just quietly stop playing. The game can be fun and there are a lot of good memories, but at the end of the day, it's not that serious. If there were a lot of people saying "This game sucks" on here you'd have a point, but you have many well thought out ideas and reasons on how to improve the game and not lose veteran players. That may be annoying, but it's also an opportunity....a very glaring missed opportunity. So sure you can throw keggers and mastercraft stuff. Maybe two years from now, someone will figure out it takes three Vestric feathers, a shard of obsidian and an old sock to make the best sword in the game from your recipe. Or killing that scrab, to make scrab stew got a cool animation from somebody for lady Fale's 27th party works for you. But people are saying that's not working for them, that's what staff and you aren't seeing. It's the denial that's annoying. |
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Post by Tektrollnes on Sept 26, 2015 10:06:31 GMT -5
In my opinion Staff should be dropping mobs on us, maybe not meks if we are not at that level. However, sometimes, thats what we need; to realize it is a dangerous world. Death is no reason to complain.
The real problem is the railroad plots. The op of this points out just how ridiculous staff can be to push their own personal story line. Subdue someone you shouldn't inside the city. Like they didn't know what would happen. If recruits had not attacked that would be blatantly out of character and treasonous. Whether or not they would have died or not is sort of irrelevant. It was instigated by staff and staff afterward are like "you weren't supposed to attack us", this is fucking Armageddon, not rainbow bright mud.
They set up a situation that would only work if everyone followed what they wanted, but we are not mind readers and this is not some pussy mush. Not all staff are inherently bad, they just have no accountability and put in very little effort as a hole. That is not saying some members of staff aren't working their asses off, but I'm not seeing it.
Creating a situation or plotline is a good thing, but directing so it can only have one outcome is another, even if that is the most likely outcome that is not always what happens and that should be prepared for and anticipated.
After the fact the recruits did not and should not have been resurrected, but an apology could have been made.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by my2sids on Sept 26, 2015 10:48:02 GMT -5
About railroaded plots: I would imagine that the reason this happens is mostly two fold...
1.) Staff are jaded. Players aren't picking up the clues that lead to X or Y which has been established to give them options. Or they don't meet staff halfway because they don't like the plot. Instead, they always just want to Z (fucking kill everything.)
2.) Limited time/energy. Adding content is easier when you don't have to build 2-4 outcomes.
With that being said I dislike a good I'm railroaded plot as much as the next guy. It is the bane of my role played existence.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 11:10:45 GMT -5
Generally, they just don't respect the players enough to let them have an influence on anything significant. Armageddon has become a game where the staff put on their play and then you can take it as it is or your and your wife's accounts will be banned.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 13:14:48 GMT -5
It's pretty cool to have shared experiences and all of these perspectives laid out like this. I'm just not a fan of others painting a picture from when TLC was on the radio. It's disineguous imo. Dead horse beating happens in these here parts, to be sure, but there is an enormous amount of relevant, contemporary criticism that crops up on these forums. |
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Post by lyse on Sept 26, 2015 15:08:53 GMT -5
About railroaded plots: I would imagine that the reason this happens is mostly two fold... 1.) Staff are jaded. Players aren't picking up the clues that lead to X or Y which has been established to give them options. Or they don't meet staff halfway because they don't like the plot. Instead, they always just want to Z (fucking kill everything.) 2.) Limited time/energy. Adding content is easier when you don't have to build 2-4 outcomes. With that being said I dislike a good I'm railroaded plot as much as the next guy. It is the bane of my role played existence. Yeah but should staff be jaded? It almost sounds childish, the players won't do my plot hooks *pout*. I'm not doing them. *foot stomp* And I actually have seen players ignore a plot hook. But as staff you can't say, they're not responding to my plot, they don't appreciate them. The staffer should ideally say I need to give them something they'll respond to. There are players that are pretty derpy, I got flamed for saying that here. But who's job is it to pull out a good player? On that same token, I have also seen what looks like a plot form then be told sorry that wasn't for you. And that was after I saw players I didn't even think could rp, come alive. I've also seen things happen with absolutely no resolve on any level. None of what I'm talking about happend when TLC dropped their last album, this is more like when Drake dropped his last mixtape. |
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by my2sids on Sept 26, 2015 15:29:34 GMT -5
Should staff be jaded? I dunno. No one's personal productivity or mood is steady when you consider influencing factors on their personal lives. Should they fire people who produce 20 widgets less one month and are a bit grouchy? I don't think willing volunteers are such an easily replaced commodity to completely eliminate their PR issues.
Sure, if you had this be a coveted paid position that people were banging down the doors to acquire... that might work. The truth of the matter is that few want to be on staff and even fewer are actually qualified according to their meter.
Let's be real here: Arm started at the bottom and now they're here. Your Drake reference about mixtapes is lost on me, though.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 16:25:09 GMT -5
Well, when it gets to the point where it is a group of people whose friends have gotten them their "jobs," well... There just isn't much variety or many differences when you are just giving your lackeys/friends responsibilities on staff.
So, you refuse to allow anyone but one segment of the playerbase onto staff - the segment who agrees with you - then yes... You will have trouble easily replacing these people. Especially if you are a disagreeable little twat.
Personal lives are one thing. I have totally dropped the ball on leadership rolls and all of that because of pressure/changes in my personal life... I get it.
But you can be having a bad time IRL and still be able to conduct yourself within a reasonable degree of appropriateness... And if you can't, quit and go do something else instead of taking it out on people you "don't like" within the context of ArmageddonMUD. Seriously... If you cannot do any better than that, then just fucking leave and go do something else. What, are you afraid that Armageddon will dissolve into thin air if you do something else with your life?
No... Armageddon was here before you came, it will be here when you leave, and it will still be here when you come back.
So, if you cannot do the job you're supposed to do without acting like a polite, mature, responsible human being... Then fuck you and go play a console game or, at the very least, play the game in a way that does not require you to interact with/volunteer for other players.
Trust me, the world will not go away... And it may even be a better game to play after you take a break and come back.
Whatever you do, it is not cool to use the fact that you are volunteering as an excuse to treat other people like trash. If you think that's the case, fuck you and the kank you road in on, you wormy little shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 17:08:51 GMT -5
Should staff be jaded? I dunno. No one's personal productivity or mood is steady when you consider influencing factors on their personal lives. Should they fire people who produce 20 widgets less one month and are a bit grouchy? I don't think willing volunteers are such an easily replaced commodity to completely eliminate their PR issues. Sure, if you had this be a coveted paid position that people were banging down the doors to acquire... that might work. The truth of the matter is that few want to be on staff and even fewer are actually qualified according to their meter. Let's be real here: Arm started at the bottom and now they're here. Your Drake reference about mixtapes is lost on me, though. Every single post of yours defends the staff in some way. It's getting a bit silly. You're not as overt about it as some have been in the past, but it's consistent enough that I wonder what the deal is. It just looks suspiciously like damage control, without you having anything tangible to back it up with. Like it's not as though you're arguing against the major cases posted by others, but you continually reply with these milquetoast, parent-like excuses. Constant little apologist remarks. I'd almost prefer someone who's honest about coming here to defend the staff. "they have a thankless job" "it's easy to throw stones" "they have limited time" "the complaints are from long ago" etc. If you have a genuine counter-argument to the stuff being posted, reveal it. If you don't, why are you constantly defending staff? We're more than open to believable arguments from the other side of the fence, but I can't stand the people who come here as two-faced PR for the staff, because I can just about smell Nyr's cock on their breath and envision them pleading for karma in exchange for services rendered on this board. So if you have an earnest reason why you think staff should be defended in this case - and not "well, they're volunteers" - then let's hear it. |
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ccp
staff puppet account
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Post by ccp on Sept 26, 2015 17:48:31 GMT -5
I used to care about and want to defend staff, but now the game as it has been for years bores me so much that I no longer care. Major staffing changes might result in what we all hope for: a fun game. After all if we didn't want the game to improve we wouldn't care enough to keep posting about it here.
Certain staffers need to retire. Give up on their grip of power. Become legends. Let some of the younger and very talented, very professional newcomers, we all know who they are, take over completely. Let them make decisions that change the gameworld. I am confident that they would make changes for the better, inject vitality into the game. Finally, give the players more power.
Nyr seems to be pretty fucking useless at this point. I haven't noticed a single positive contribution of his for a long while, whereas several of the other staffers have gotten my attention many times for being awesome additions to the staff team.
This is why I'm excited about the prospect of a new dark sun mud altogether. like has been said many times, the overall mood towards players has been one of stagnation and rejection, and favoritism, lots of favoritism for crucial roles given to the same players again and again. If I heard that they made major staff changes and that changes also happened to the gameworld afterwards I'd give it another go. At this point I'm completely jaded that things will not go one bit different if I were to role up my nth pc.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by my2sids on Sept 26, 2015 20:48:41 GMT -5
Oldtwink: Man, you crack me up. You're like a caricature of nerdrage and half the reason I read these forums. Keep it real, homey.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 20:55:32 GMT -5
I dunno, sometimes my2sids is more in the mood for defending the staff, sometimes he disapproves of their actions. Yes, he defends them more than most people here, which I'd say is a good thing these days, because it gives people here something to talk about. Seems like a dissenting voice is kind of needed here lately; discussion has kind of petered out.
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Post by Tektrollnes on Sept 27, 2015 2:02:35 GMT -5
We also volunteer to play. It requires a lot of effort to develop a 3 dimensional character and maintain that persona. To use that character to develop story.
When I was seventeen I got a job selling railroad ties on the side of the road and I got paid $13 an hour for a summer of it. It was an easy job. I sat there and when people came I loaded ties in their truck and took their money. I got some of my friends to come "help" me do my job. We sat around smoked cigs and played table top D&D. We took turns being dm. None of us ever had a preconception of what would happen with our plots. We just played.
We volunteer to play and they volunteer to dm. A dm does not get to play without players and vice versa.
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Post by jcarter on Sept 27, 2015 2:10:36 GMT -5
I should be more clear: I find it to be annoying to have someone who admits they no longer play the game spin their broken record about how such and such is an evil king from 2002, or whenever it is they were wronged. It's pretty cool to have shared experiences and all of these perspectives laid out like this. I'm just not a fan of others painting a picture from when TLC was on the radio. It's disineguous imo. To clarify, I'm not claiming you've thrown a temper tantrum. That's in reference to the ol' standard ragequit that pops up now and then. ...what do you expect? Staff actively works to squash communication that makes them look bad. People who still play are the least likely to come here and complain because they don't want to lose their account over venting. A lot of staff bullshit that happens takes years (yes, years) to come to light and generally only gets acknowledged when they're no longer actively involved in the game, i.e. Halaster's Plainsman antics. If you want to get fussy, redirect it to the people who hate transparency and people talking about a video game outside of their chosen channel. |
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Post by lyse on Sept 27, 2015 8:25:38 GMT -5
I dunno, sometimes my2sids is more in the mood for defending the staff, sometimes he disapproves of their actions. Yes, he defends them more than most people here, which I'd say is a good thing these days, because it gives people here something to talk about. Seems like a dissenting voice is kind of needed here lately; discussion has kind of petered out. So he's wishy-washy? Is it really something to talk about or is it just more of the same? All he did was echo what staff usually says on the GDB and not even back it up. He probably doesn't even believe what he's saying. I don't know about you, but sending a troll to defend staff definitely doesn't make them look good. And if he came on his own, he must be pretty bored on ARM cause for all his plots and crafting he's on here trolling. There really isn't anymore to say. There's no defense for staff actions, especially from a player. It always comes out half hearted and vague sounding, that's because deep down you really can't believe in any of their reasons for doing what they do. So he made the board a little active for a couple of days, he echoed in an echo chamber...from another echo chamber? |
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