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Post by mekillot on Apr 30, 2014 3:00:01 GMT -5
I agree with legendary there.
I think it's also that some of the sweeping new changes aren't well received.
I know at least one pc committed a fairly public suicide when Nyr was going to be northern staff. I'd say he's part of the reason too.
Some of the handling of IC animations aren't what the players think of as "Tuluki". Public execution shouldn't have emotes about a shower of blood. Templars shouldn't be choking people with their own hands.
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Post by legendary on Apr 30, 2014 6:12:40 GMT -5
It's a desperate attempt to reclaim legitimacy.
It's the brutal executions, showers of blood and gore, rape surprises, murder and general savagery that makes Zalanthas such a dark and exciting world. Tuluk wants to be a part of that world, without having to really commit to the rest of it: The filthy, the bleak, the rotten and the barren. It wants to be lush and beautiful, elegant and sophisticated, yet still be "Zalanthas". It just doesn't work like that, even with the paint-on grit you see in the warrens, there is no escape from the relative opulence that defines Tuluk.
When you pass through the gate from the north road and into Tuluk, you are quite literally entering into an entirely different game. The original-now-bastardized theme; the rules, the social ordering, the pretension of bloodless this and Artist that, these are things that could and likely would be an interesting theme for an entire MUD. I would play a game like that and I would most certainly enjoy it, but it isn't in a stand alone game. It was shoehorned in on top of twenty years of dirty, desperate and despicable and it should be clear from the departing old guard and lack of interest from new players that precious few are interested now that the new toy shine has worn off.
Tuluk does not gel with the rest of the game; even if you could walk in from a place other than Luirs and not have to worry about getting your character turned into a loot bag for the Legion, there is, for me at least, this inescapable point where I know I'm leaving Zalanthas behind. It's where I go from "Is killing that grebber worth the risk?" to "Fruit here! Get your fruit here, three on every tree and the price is FREE!" that I feel the disconnect and am immediately wanting to turn around.
What we're starting to see, both in some of the more sweeping changes and in the more open brutality is an attempt to bring Tuluk back into the Zalanthan fold without anyone having to admit that it isn't working; that taking it in that direction was a mistake from the get go. It isn't just a case of too little, too late, either. It's making the situation worse.
Not only does Tuluk still not adhere to the central theme of the game that has held firm for the better part of two decades, but it no longer even stands true to it's own original concept. It is completely lacking in integrity and credibility now, as are the people who continue to prop it up as "Working as intended".
With the population plummeting, the zone being a no mans land for non-citizens and the last string of RPTs being met with a universal shrug from players, I would think even Nyr has to see the writing on the wall.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 8:05:20 GMT -5
It's a desperate attempt to reclaim legitimacy. It's the brutal executions, showers of blood and gore, rape surprises, murder and general savagery that makes Zalanthas such a dark and exciting world. Tuluk wants to be a part of that world, without having to really commit to the rest of it: The filthy, the bleak, the rotten and the barren. It wants to be lush and beautiful, elegant and sophisticated, yet still be "Zalanthas". It just doesn't work like that, even with the paint-on grit you see in the warrens, there is no escape from the relative opulence that defines Tuluk. When you pass through the gate from the north road and into Tuluk, you are quite literally entering into an entirely different game. The original-now-bastardized theme; the rules, the social ordering, the pretension of bloodless this and Artist that, these are things that could and likely would be an interesting theme for an entire MUD. I would play a game like that and I would most certainly enjoy it, but it isn't in a stand alone game. It was shoehorned in on top of twenty years of dirty, desperate and despicable and it should be clear from the departing old guard and lack of interest from new players that precious few are interested now that the new toy shine has worn off. Tuluk does not gel with the rest of the game; even if you could walk in from a place other than Luirs and not have to worry about getting your character turned into a loot bag for the Legion, there is, for me at least, this inescapable point where I know I'm leaving Zalanthas behind. It's where I go from "Is killing that grebber worth the risk?" to "Fruit here! Get your fruit here, three on every tree and the price is FREE!" that I feel the disconnect and am immediately wanting to turn around. What we're starting to see, both in some of the more sweeping changes and in the more open brutality is an attempt to bring Tuluk back into the Zalanthan fold without anyone having to admit that it isn't working; that taking it in that direction was a mistake from the get go. It isn't just a case of too little, too late, either. It's making the situation worse. Not only does Tuluk still not adhere to the central theme of the game that has held firm for the better part of two decades, but it no longer even stands true to it's own original concept. It is completely lacking in integrity and credibility now, as are the people who continue to prop it up as "Working as intended". With the population plummeting, the zone being a no mans land for non-citizens and the last string of RPTs being met with a universal shrug from players, I would think even Nyr has to see the writing on the wall. My favorite time period of Tuluk was when I absolutely first started playing. Leisera/Zharal the gypsy was the Hlum chosen consort, Ehrick the Lyksean slave hung around a lot, being a total badass. Chaska Jul Tavan was there for the tribals, Caprice was around being awesome and ass stomping it seemed, Zalranris Tenneshi was around being hot and untouchable, Sharlo Kadius was around, Nyr actually had a Lyksean chosen lord at that time who hung out and trained with Leisera sometimes. There were a ton of interesting and diverse leadership or somewhat leadership pcs, from clans outside Tuluk as well as the Tuluki ones, not all of them adhered to this idea of Tuluk as pristine and lush, and it was generally badass all around. As the pcs in question died or stored one by one, it's never been enjoyable for me to play there since.
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Post by LordOfChange on Apr 30, 2014 9:53:17 GMT -5
It's a desperate attempt to reclaim legitimacy. It's the brutal executions, showers of blood and gore, rape surprises, murder and general savagery that makes Zalanthas such a dark and exciting world. Tuluk wants to be a part of that world, without having to really commit to the rest of it: The filthy, the bleak, the rotten and the barren. It wants to be lush and beautiful, elegant and sophisticated, yet still be "Zalanthas". It just doesn't work like that, even with the paint-on grit you see in the warrens, there is no escape from the relative opulence that defines Tuluk. You just really boiled it down for me.. I'm a tuluk fan since the rebellion, and I've been a ooc defender of tuluk ever since. But the recent changes feel tacked on like having some scripted deaths of npcs I don't know and care about is enough to make tuluk better. I've not been feeling up to arming lately but maybe what I need is just to get out of tuluk. edit to add: guess I'll need to wait to leave b/c it will be easy for nyr to figure who I am when I leave tuluk. if your playerbase is mircoscopic one missing pc probably sticks out.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 30, 2014 10:49:27 GMT -5
How To Fix Tuluki (without losing legitimacy of previous incarnation)
1) Ultra Nationalistic 2) Cultist vibe 3) Dark sekrit / terrible cost / big drawback
Now lets elaborate. Tuluk is supposed to be a nationalistic city state that is shunning to outsiders. This is kind of dumb because it misses the biggest possible racket/class warefare that Tuluk can provide... You don't tell everyone, you'll never be one of us you tell them ONE OF US ONE OF US. This leads into cultist vibe. Tuluki's should be converting people into wannabe-Tuluki's who give their lives to try and become part of the insider club but 90% of them fail. Those that succeed are praised and pointed at as the glory of Tuluk improving peoples lives to entice more chumps into wasting their lives in support of the citystate. This basically creates RP on the basis that Tuluk is trying to suck people in (as part of a con) not keep people out (because we're better)... Think of it as the American Dream. Up play the benefits, downplay the reality of failure.
Now dark sekrit / terrible cost / big drawback. Tuluk should have rain. Stay with me now. You want lush lands, food everywhere, bontiful game... Well guess what you have rain and diseased insects and floods and stagnate water and risk of landslides near the cliffs and shit like that. If Nak is the barren wasteland of starvation and brutality. Tuluk should be the bontiful jungle of OMG NATURAL DISASTERS AND DANGERS.
^ This would fold Tuluk into the gameworld realistically and give the city concept an inclusive RP element. Also just because, make it salt rain, make it so plants can live off salt water, players can't drink it. Done and done.
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Post by jcarter on Apr 30, 2014 11:19:41 GMT -5
Hunting around Allanak - high risk, no reward Hunting around Tuluk - low risk, high reward
It's an out of whack system. I think a great balance for Tuluk would have been having it Allanak-occupied after the last HRPT and the Rebellion starting up again. Incentive for Allanaki players would be much higher reward: promotion to red-robe for templars or higher-ranks for Militia, better apartments, more money, prestige, etc. Rebellion movement could be a pretty PC-led option. Smuggling out weapons to Rebellion camp, pulling strings to rip off the Allanaki PCs, etc. Keeping a good amount of tension and intrigue while the pbase is concentrated.
But that would require lasting change and effort that goes above and beyond making an area an inhospitable volcano.
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drunkendwarf
Displaced Tuluki
SUCK IT, NYR AND ADHIRA
Posts: 211
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Post by drunkendwarf on Apr 30, 2014 11:30:48 GMT -5
I did the exact same thing with my stump Dargan when he was in the Legions, only far less formal. I got permission to take whoever I wanted into the arena. I made them swear that, if Tuluk was attacked, they would help to defend the city. We began running regular training sessions with people. Did people take advantage of this, knowing full well they did not in any way plan on grabbing a sword and running to the front lines, if the city was attacked? I'm sure. But there were also people that WERE going to help, I'm sure of it. And...it was a very fond memory I have of Dargan during that time. A lot of fun PC interaction going on during those sparring/training sessions. The saddest thing about Dargan to me, is that he would have easily become the highest rank a human could if he'd been human. He was that good. But racial stuff kept him down. Meh, I knew what I was getting into from the start with enlisting a dwarf into the Legions. I didn't do it just to make my way up the ranks or else I would have joined a different clan with him. He did make sergeant which, from what I understand, is nearly unheard of for a non-human. I trained Beldyn during these arena sessions. What ever happened to that guy, anyway? I made sergeant, gave him an assload of my gear then stored Dargan.
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Post by LordOfChange on Apr 30, 2014 12:46:43 GMT -5
I think Beldyn was kryl'd iirc.
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MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
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Post by MartenBroadcloak on Apr 30, 2014 14:03:28 GMT -5
I heard Winrothol had him ganked. Or at least took credit for ganking Beldyn after some kind of shit show at an event.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 14:04:40 GMT -5
How To Fix Tuluki (without losing legitimacy of previous incarnation) 1) Ultra Nationalistic 2) Cultist vibe 3) Dark sekrit / terrible cost / big drawback Now lets elaborate. Tuluk is supposed to be a nationalistic city state that is shunning to outsiders. This is kind of dumb because it misses the biggest possible racket/class warefare that Tuluk can provide... You don't tell everyone, you'll never be one of us you tell them ONE OF US ONE OF US. This leads into cultist vibe. Tuluki's should be converting people into wannabe-Tuluki's who give their lives to try and become part of the insider club but 90% of them fail. Those that succeed are praised and pointed at as the glory of Tuluk improving peoples lives to entice more chumps into wasting their lives in support of the citystate. This basically creates RP on the basis that Tuluk is trying to suck people in (as part of a con) not keep people out (because we're better)... Think of it as the American Dream. Up play the benefits, downplay the reality of failure. Now dark sekrit / terrible cost / big drawback. Tuluk should have rain. Stay with me now. You want lush lands, food everywhere, bontiful game... Well guess what you have rain and diseased insects and floods and stagnate water and risk of landslides near the cliffs and shit like that. If Nak is the barren wasteland of starvation and brutality. Tuluk should be the bontiful jungle of OMG NATURAL DISASTERS AND DANGERS. ^ This would fold Tuluk into the gameworld realistically and give the city concept an inclusive RP element. Also just because, make it salt rain, make it so plants can live off salt water, players can't drink it. Done and done. I was on board all the way to the salt rain thing, but salt kills things. It saps moisture out of them, which in a desert is essential, that would really be like it wasn't raining and make all the land sterile. Up to that point, though, big thumbs up, loving the idea.
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MartenBroadcloak
Displaced Tuluki
It's not a shit post if you spell check (tm)
Posts: 370
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Post by MartenBroadcloak on Apr 30, 2014 14:05:34 GMT -5
I agree with legendary there. Templars shouldn't be choking people with their own hands. Yeah, that's not only rather 'southron' in it's essence since Tuluki docs are all like they frown on public stuff like that unless its a major offense like high reason, but you would think a Templar wouldn't lower himself to back alley mugger type actions to enforce the law.
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Post by mekillot on Apr 30, 2014 15:27:26 GMT -5
The saddest thing about Dargan to me, is that he would have easily become the highest rank a human could if he'd been human. He was that good. But racial stuff kept him down. Meh, I knew what I was getting into from the start with enlisting a dwarf into the Legions. I didn't do it just to make my way up the ranks or else I would have joined a different clan with him. He did make sergeant which, from what I understand, is nearly unheard of for a non-human. I trained Beldyn during these arena sessions. What ever happened to that guy, anyway? I made sergeant, gave him an assload of my gear then stored Dargan. Was Beldyn the one who got saved by the white carru and got like 50 bonus perm hp? If it is, then he died to the humble bahamet, from what I heard.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Apr 30, 2014 15:42:02 GMT -5
I agree with legendary there. Templars shouldn't be choking people with their own hands. Yeah, that's not only rather 'southron' in it's essence since Tuluki docs-- Im sure if you point this out enough, Nyr will retcon the docs without telling anyone to make himself right. Which he did already when he rolled out Shadow Artists.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Apr 30, 2014 16:02:50 GMT -5
Beldyn was executed by Raleris after killing someone during the museum riots. Coverup was done. Aon was killed by a bahamet. A lot of people were killed by bahamets. Dargan was saved by the white carru once.
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Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
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Post by Hardboiled on May 1, 2014 1:17:10 GMT -5
Closing the arena and effectively killing the citizen's call was a stupid decision on their part. I'm sure they thought that by removing it, more people would be inclinded to join one of the boring and sometimes needlessly restrictive clans for their training. Um, no, people who still wanted to twink and not be bored to death in a clan still had alot of option, they could go out and slaughter animals or heck go train in their apartments. The only thing that closing down the arena did was remove some of the most engaging RP tuluk had seen in many years. Instead of people gathering together in larger groups to train and yes get a chance to R-fucking-P, they went back to solo training with no Rp at all. People in dead clans with no one to train or Rp with, and people who played off peak used to be able to go to the arena to find people to train with and Rp with but nope, not anymore. Good job at making a boring ass place even more boring. The tribal levies are an attempt to fix that mistake, but like most things its poorly implemented and is really a shadow of what the original concept. However lets face it, alot of tuluk is poorly designed, from mindbending templars to controlled crime. I must admit though i didn't think you could make an inflexable system such as the thief and assassin licenses even more inflexable and devoid of RP but wow shadow artists system managed to do just that. Despite all this, I have heard from a couple people that the only real reason they refuse to play in tuluk is because of Nyr though since by playing in allanak there is less chance need to deal with him. Now wouldn't it be funny if all that Nyr had to do to make tuluk popular again is join the southern staff, forcing people to migrate back north to get away from him. Tuluk: No crime, no plots, no people and thus no fun.
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