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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 18:55:15 GMT -5
I am not trying to villanize anyone or make anyone feel bad. Again, it's not like we're talking about a priest raping an altar boy. It IS text, and that's why it's not that big of a deal compared to some stuff.
I don't think the fact that I mudsexxed when I was a minor kept me from mud sexing as an adult dude for any reason other than the understanding that the person on the other end might be, you know, a little boy. And despite what people have said here about lol anonymity, hell I'd even let me kid do that... Well, it's not a notion that I've ever been comfortable with.
Anyway, really sensitive stuff here, I know, but I think there is merit in discussing it.
Even though I used my personal experience as examples, I think the phenomena as a whole deserves more discussion than one person's rather mild experiences.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 20:33:45 GMT -5
I figured they'd have a 18+ clause in the TOS, but this suggests that not only they dont, but there has been some thought about the issue. gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,33068.0.html
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Post by malkeninthemiddle on Feb 27, 2015 22:02:25 GMT -5
I am not trying to villanize anyone or make anyone feel bad. Again, it's not like we're talking about a priest raping an altar boy. It IS text, and that's why it's not that big of a deal compared to some stuff. I don't think the fact that I mudsexxed when I was a minor kept me from mud sexing as an adult dude for any reason other than the understanding that the person on the other end might be, you know, a little boy. And despite what people have said here about lol anonymity, hell I'd even let me kid do that... Well, it's not a notion that I've ever been comfortable with. Anyway, really sensitive stuff here, I know, but I think there is merit in discussing it. Even though I used my personal experience as examples, I think the phenomena as a whole deserves more discussion than one person's rather mild experiences. You're not answering anything, kronidude. What I'm taking away from your post is that you thought that everyone would be like, "Woah, dude, this is fucked up, sue the hell out of that woman/staff/the whole mud!" but what you're mostly getting is that people have no idea what you're trying to do with that sort of post. Answer me this please - 1 - Did you contact any of the Staff to tell them that an adult was hitting on you either in game or outside of it and that it was making you quite uncomfortable? 2 - What would YOU do to prevent adults coming in contact with minors on a game that is mostly centralized about highly sexualized (is that a word?) world where seduction and sex itself is just a valid weapon as anything else? 3 - Do you even think that in 2015 there's a realistic system, other than completely shutting down EVERY internet games out there (I guarantee you that there's just as much adults on minor sexin' on WoW than there might be on Armageddon and every other muds and internet channels of any sort out there) The way you've titled your post makes it sound like you were hoping that people would be SHOCKED or SICKENED by such REVELATIONS, but everyone is mostly just .. Eh, so what?, which is probably a more serious sort of answer than if you were trying to lawyer up on this (hint - it wouldn't even get you one of these free consultations that most lawyers offer). So please answer question 1, 2 and 3 for me and if you're just posting this as some sort of casual conversation, that's fine, otherwise, yeah, I think you're going a little too far with your sudden hatred of everything Armageddon. PS - I'm not calling you crazy, I'm calling that kind of post crazy. I also think you smoke a little too much pot but that's okay, you're not AmandaGreatHouse pot-crazy just yet ^_^
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:11:51 GMT -5
That's interesting, and I wasn't aware. If it turns out that this sort of thing is illegal, and I don't know if it is or isn't, then a disclaimer saying something like people are liable to prosecution if found to be simulating sexual acts with minors, well... That might work. I don't know the law, but laws aside, it's unethical. And I realize that it often happens BECAUSE of anonymity - and I am in no way saying someone who's inadvertly mudsexed a minor is a monster, or a bad person. No. That's not my point. There is no illegality going on because you consent to play the game - which you are not legally able to do when you're a minor (minors *cannot* legally consent to ANYTHING). Anything that goes on in the game, is either going on between consenting adults, or between people who are not legally authorized to be there. Including a 14-year-old boy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:14:00 GMT -5
Sigh, Malken, no... The only time I have ever contacted the staff about romantic drama bullshit is when Vanth went all apeshit on my karma after I blocked her.
Why not say anything? Well, maybe it didn't seem too weird at the time. I was too busy like mmmmm titties. But now half a lifetime later, I reflect and an like, yeah, some of that stuff was a little weird.
Why do I give a shit? I think the vast majority of stuff like that is probably benign, but then there are the Ivory Angels in the rafters, and it's like, I think we should probably actively work on preventing younger players from being fashioned into sex puppets. And yes, just like that language of the title, that is probably too extreme of wording. But like I said, I am literally sick as hell IRL and am probably being a little grumpy.
ArmageddonMUD is unique in the monitoring front. They seem to have infinite time to like quietly proclaim that people like me craft too much and go as far as imping code against it without so much as a word to me, but they don't have the time to police stuff like that?
Maybe instead of being the roleplaying police, they could spend time preventing shit like that.
I mean, regardless of what questions I raise about it, this issue will invariably remain a "thing" in discussions, and I am not trying to fear monger when I think of outcomes those kinda simulated acts might lead to more significant problems than me just sitting around talking about it on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:17:11 GMT -5
That's interesting, and I wasn't aware. If it turns out that this sort of thing is illegal, and I don't know if it is or isn't, then a disclaimer saying something like people are liable to prosecution if found to be simulating sexual acts with minors, well... That might work. I don't know the law, but laws aside, it's unethical. And I realize that it often happens BECAUSE of anonymity - and I am in no way saying someone who's inadvertly mudsexed a minor is a monster, or a bad person. No. That's not my point. There is no illegality going on because you consent to play the game - which you are not legally able to do when you're a minor (minors *cannot* legally consent to ANYTHING). Anything that goes on in the game, is either going on between consenting adults, or between people who are not legally authorized to be there. Including a 14-year-old boy. Okay, well, can you back up your claim that nothing illegal is happening with documentation? I mean, I cannot conceive of it being legal to simulate sexual acts with a minor, even if via text.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:24:34 GMT -5
What do you think they could do to prevent it? They have no way of verifying anyone's ages. Sex, textual or otherwise, is not illegal among consenting adults, except in certain jurisdictions in a couple of southern states where it's still technically illegal to have sex with someone you're not married to, no matter how old both parties are.
Anyone can log into the game and type "yes" when the prompt asks them if they are a consenting adult. A 4-month old kitten could do it if you give them a keyboard and enough time for trial and error.
The "you must be 18 or older to play" is mostly just a red herring to appease people who think that anyone would take it seriously. It has no meaning, it isn't enforceable. There's no need to add another unenforceable rule to Armageddon. You played for how many years after you were 14, and it never bothered you the entire time until just now, 15 years later? Give me a break. Go back into your dope haze and come up with a more interesting topic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:27:13 GMT -5
There is no illegality going on because you consent to play the game - which you are not legally able to do when you're a minor (minors *cannot* legally consent to ANYTHING). Anything that goes on in the game, is either going on between consenting adults, or between people who are not legally authorized to be there. Including a 14-year-old boy. Okay, well, can you back up your claim that nothing illegal is happening with documentation? I mean, I cannot conceive of it being legal to simulate sexual acts with a minor, even if via text. It is illegal for a minor to agree to written rules. They are not legally authorized to consent to abide by them. You were illegally playing Armageddon. It was you who was breaking the rules. The assumption is that the people who are playing, are playing by the rules. The rules state that you have to agree to abide by them, in order to play. That means you must be something other than a minor child. Perhaps the Armageddon staff should sue you for violating the law and causing trauma to adults who reasonably assumed that they were engaging in legal activities with legal adults.
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Post by malkeninthemiddle on Feb 27, 2015 22:27:14 GMT -5
Sigh, Malken, no... The only time I have ever contacted the staff about romantic drama bullshit is when Vanth went all apeshit on my karma after I blocked her. Why not say anything? Well, maybe it didn't seem too weird at the time. I was too busy like mmmmm titties. But now half a lifetime later, I reflect and an like, yeah, some of that stuff was a little weird. Why do I give a shit? I think the vast majority of stuff like that is probably benign, but then there are the Ivory Angels in the rafters, and it's like, I think we should probably actively work on preventing younger players from being fashioned into sex puppets. And yes, just like that language of the title, that is probably too extreme of wording. But like I said, I am literally sick as hell IRL and am probably being a little grumpy. ArmageddonMUD is unique in the monitoring front. They seem to have infinite time to like quietly proclaim that people like me craft too much and go as far as imping code against it without so much as a word to me, but they don't have the time to police stuff like that? Maybe instead of being the roleplaying police, they could spend time preventing shit like that. I mean, regardless of what questions I raise about it, this issue will invariably remain a "thing" in discussions, and I am not trying to fear monger when I think of outcomes those kinda simulated acts might lead to more significant problems than me just sitting around talking about it on this forum. Ok but you're still not saying how you would go about knowing stuff like that.. If I'm a Staff, how do I know that you're an adult or a minor? Do you really want staff to start spending time analyzing mudsexing sessions or to start digging into people's private life? Nobody cares if they say that you need to be 18+ to play that game, heck, the only thing that it'll do is protect THEM, certainly not the minors who'll continue to play and pretend to be 18+ Do you want them to start monitoring OOC chats and gossips? Seriously, there's nothing anyone can do about this, nowhere, nohow..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:29:01 GMT -5
And sorry, but I have been nitpicked by the staff for far, far less than this, so it only feels fair to turn the tables now that there is a venue for actually doing that. So.
Some of them make a hobby out of judging, condemning, gossiping about, and blacklisting players, and when you try to call them on their bullshit on the GDB, you find yourself banned.
Whatever. If they can make a hobby out of judging and belittling players, then I should be able to kick it over here and dish out some of my own criticism. It's not like I would play the game if I even could at this point.
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malkeninthemiddle
Displaced Tuluki
Black woman lawyer on a television morning show
Posts: 279
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Post by malkeninthemiddle on Feb 27, 2015 22:34:36 GMT -5
And sorry, but I have been nitpicked by the staff for far, far less than this, so it only feels fair to turn the tables now that there is a venue for actually doing that. So. Some of them make a hobby out of judging, condemning, gossiping about, and blacklisting players, and when you try to call them on their bullshit on the GDB, you find yourself banned. Whatever. If they can make a hobby out of judging and belittling players, then I should be able to kick it over here and dish out some of my own criticism. It's not like I would play the game if I even could at this point. The problem is that you're not attacking the mud or Staff at all with that post of yours, you're just stating something that all of us knew already, that on the internets, there's pervs, there's minors and there's sexing. But what most of us don't agree with is that you actually tried to pin this on the fault of Armageddonmud and its Staff and you're blaming them for something that happened to you when you were 14, something they have absolutely no control over. If you are to blame someone, blame your parents first for letting you come in contact with adults in adult-like situations without monitoring what you're doing at 14 THEN blame the perv that continued sexually harassing you or whatever after he/she/it knew you were 14.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:40:42 GMT -5
I think the scope of monitoring is large enough to fight against this. Suggestion to staff: stop judging, and start being proactive against shit like this.
And you're right, it's like the elephant in the room, Malken.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:42:30 GMT -5
If it turns out to be illegal to simulate sexual acts through text with minors, then more signage would definitely be called for.
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Kronibas 2.0
Displaced Tuluki
this account will go inactive once I hit 420 posts
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Post by Kronibas 2.0 on Feb 27, 2015 22:47:04 GMT -5
I like simulating sexual acts through text with miners.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 22:52:28 GMT -5
There's already consent rules in the rules. Players are required to ask for consent whenever they instigate sexual roleplay. A minor child is not -legally able- to consent to that. But if the player is a minor child, and types out "I consent" then he is breaking the rules. Unfortunately there is no way of proving that he is a minor child. So we're back to square one.
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