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Post by lyse on Jan 5, 2015 21:12:53 GMT -5
So after reading some poor guy meltdown about how broken hide is on the GDB, probably because he couldn't or didn't know how to counter it. I realize there isn't too much on here about skilling up stealth skills, how they work or the biggest kept secret...things that break them or more importantly how not to break them.
I'll start:
You can break hide by using scan (which is why tavern sitters seem to randomly scan while tavern sitting) hide gear can offset this which means...yeah stealth is a little broken.
Thinks, feels and semotes won't break them.
Popping a watch on someone you're fighting that might try to poof away makes it a bit harder for them to disappear, but again stealth gear.
Feel free to add, clarify, debate....
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 5, 2015 21:19:21 GMT -5
Detect hidden/infravision. If templars wanna catch you enough they will cast this on a miltitia and they'll catch ya. The game is balanced enough.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 5, 2015 22:18:53 GMT -5
People are always cryng about stealth and steal. waaaahhhhh my twinked up warrior who could crush someone cant because stealth! it's so unfair that i can't twink my way out of this this waahh this situation! Pickpockts are OP because despite having less skills than almost every other guild in the game i can't see them when thy steal my custom loots! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh  |
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 5, 2015 22:25:29 GMT -5
^ I agree. You're a fucking warrior. Arguably the most dangerous twinked class in the game if you get the right gear you will destroy almost anyone in a few melee rounds. Of course yer gonna have to deal with stealth. It's the same as dealing with invis.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 5, 2015 22:43:02 GMT -5
But all contempt for the butthurt aside, heres some general details on stealth. (If my info is out of date, please feel fre to correct.) - Encumbernce imposes a penalty on sneak after Easily Manageble. I dont believe there's a bonus for going lghter, only a penalty for going heavier.
- Unlike a number of skills stealth skills only give a bump on failure if someone is there to see you fail. "Someone" can be an animal but must be a PC or NPC; VNPCs dont count. this means you pretty much expose yourslf as a sneaky type when youre least able to defend yourself. And anyone long-livd will probably have made a note of it so they oocly know who to assume stole from them if somone succeeds STEALTH IS OP waaaaaahhhhhhh
- Gear can improve hide. kurac has both city and wilderness camo for this.
- And it used to be possible for someone to get bonuses and skill so high their hide could only be broken by magc or psionics. i don't know if that was ever changed
- Pickpockets are Inventory Elementalists. And they are the only magickr who people hate and fear the way the docs say magickers should be.
- People wll get angrier at someone who steals from them unseen than someone who fucking kills their character with a bug / twink character / staff avatar. this is one of the reasons why PPs are the most fun guild to play. in spite of having shit for skills, being forced to branch hide for no reason, and having a lowr max hide than burglars.
- Despite havng no idea when somethng stealthy happened, players will assume when they FEEL it should have failed and decide thats when it happened, and go bersrk at how OP stealth is. then they wipe their tears and snotty noses on the gdb. And they look for a hugbox to crawl into.
Oh. And one tip for anyone who plans to go with a stealthy, low-combat type character: CLIMB. Do not neglct climb. it is one of the most important skills youll ever have. It probably sounds slly to read that if youve only ever played warriors or mages or whatever. But climb makes the difference between running where you cant be followd or killed. people may even knock themslves out chasing you up a sheer wall. |
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Kronibas 2.0
Displaced Tuluki
this account will go inactive once I hit 420 posts
Posts: 389 
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Post by Kronibas 2.0 on Jan 5, 2015 22:46:29 GMT -5
So after reading some poor guy meltdown about how broken hide is on the GDB, probably because he couldn't or didn't know how to counter it. I realize there isn't too much on here about skilling up stealth skills, how they work or the biggest kept secret...things that break them or more importantly how not to break them. I'll start: You can break hide by using scan (which is why tavern sitters seem to randomly scan while tavern sitting) hide gear can offset this which means...yeah stealth is a little broken. Thinks, feels and semotes won't break them. Popping a watch on someone you're fighting that might try to poof away makes it a bit harder for them to disappear, but again stealth gear. Feel free to add, clarify, debate.... "he didn't know how to counter it, poor guy" "you can counter it like this... but oh wait, stealth gear" "you can also counter it like this... but oh wait, stealth gear again" so helpful |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 5, 2015 22:57:39 GMT -5
To be fair, there are absolutely times when people cheat and pull bullshit with stealth skills. But what I typically see wind up on the gdb goes more like...
How crybaby emo players decide they were stolen from by an abusive player based on feelng upset about it:
You follow the raven-locked sad-faced man and walk west.
>steal raven's mix-tape
You carefully approach your target...
Got it!
You follow the raven-locked sad-faced man and walk west.
You follow the raven-locked sad-faced man and walk west.
You follow the raven-locked sad-faced man and walk south.
The Gaj [whatever]
You notice: Someone tries to steal something from the raven-locked sad-faced man and barely covers his mistake in time.
The raven-locked sad-faced man clutches at his bag, holding the end shut.
The raven-locked sad-faced man sits at a round table, keeping his back to the wall.
The raven-locked sad-faced man says, GDBly:
"OH THIS IS BULLSHIT! I WAS WATCHING FOR THIEVES AND HAD MY BACK TO THE WALL AND WAS HOLDING MY PACK SHUT! HOW DARE YOU SHITTY ROLE PLAYERS STEAL MY MIX TAPE! WAAAAAHHHHHH! IT'S UNFAIR! STEALTH IS OVER POWERED! WHY DON'T YOU ATTACK ME SO MY 12 DAYS OF SPARRING ENDLESSLY CAN PAY OFF WHEN I TWINKMURDER YOU?!? WAAAAAAHHHHH"
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Post by sirra on Jan 5, 2015 23:00:56 GMT -5
Detect hidden/infravision. If templars wanna catch you enough they will cast this on a miltitia and they'll catch ya. The game is balanced enough. Balanced for templars, maybe! That said. The game is truly weighed more in the direction of the finders and fucking over yous, and far from the hiding and staying unfucked, when it comes to coded powers. If someone manages to benefit a little from mundane stealth, more power to them. There's plenty of templars, whirans, drovians, sorcs and psionicists who will find them and screw them over at leisure, one way or another. Someone with good hiding skills and good hiding equipment will however, have an edge on mundane scan, owing to the lack of comparable scan boosting equipment. On an entirely different tangent, I hate the burglar and pickpocketing classes because they're so useless. They make worse spies than any one of a dozen available gickers, have coded abilities that revolve entirely around being a petty annoyance to unsuspecting casuals (burglarizing an apartment, stealing from someone, when for most experienced players precautions against such are second nature), and are more or less good for nothing. What the game needs, is for Assassin, Burglar and Pickpocket to be rolled into a 'Rogue', as the city equivalent of a 'Ranger'. Until then, I will take a ranger/thief over any of the above classes every day of the week. |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 5, 2015 23:04:29 GMT -5
Anyone got a link to the post in question? because it's always possible it was legit abuse. I just rarely see exampls of anythng but people butthurt about stealth over losing some unique craft item.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 5, 2015 23:05:44 GMT -5
You can't abuse stealth. It's fucking retarded to think so. If warriors are allowed to bash/kick/disarm without emotes during high-tension PKill situations then by god my PP or assassin doesn't have to give you an emote. By god that's maddening.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 5, 2015 23:09:47 GMT -5
Ehhh... i've seen a couple situations in person where it was retarded someone could hide at all. Like literally 2 times in all the years Ive played someone hid when it should have been impossible to succeed. But I still know they happened.
Mostly stealth characters' players get shat on for imagined crimes tho.
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Post by sirra on Jan 5, 2015 23:11:41 GMT -5
[/b][li] Pickpockets are Inventory Elementalists. And they are the only magickr who people hate and fear the way the docs say magickers should be.[/li][/ul][/quote] This is brilliant, by the way. Elementalists should all be given pickpocketing. Then we'll see true prejudicial animus. |
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jan 5, 2015 23:13:10 GMT -5
ppl more often than not throw in a 'just-in-case' player complaint in any scenario where there shit is missing and they werent in a position to see the person rping the whole thing, from emotes to thinks and feels
these are the types of complaints that should be discouraged, or at least limited to a bug request, like, 'hey, item blank is missing just wanted to make sure it wasnt a crash bug' etc where a simple 'oh it was a bug heres ur shit' or 'there was no bug involved' would take care of it just as well, even if the player would get the same attention in the process of seeing where their shit went
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Post by BitterFlashback on Jan 5, 2015 23:17:19 GMT -5
[/b][li] Pickpockets are Inventory Elementalists. And they are the only magickr who people hate and fear the way the docs say magickers should be.[/li][/ul][/quote]This is brilliant, by the way. Elementalists should all be given pickpocketing. Then we'll see true prejudicial animus.[/quote]Thanks! And good idea. The docs claim that pickpockets at the second most populous occupation in the virtual population; give all magickers limited steal, sneak, and hide to represent what they had to do to get by. Maybe cap 'em all at 40. Players would finally learn to hate them appropriately ic. ppl more often than not throw in a 'just-in-case' player complaint in any scenario where there shit is missing and they werent in a position to see the person rping the whole thing, from emotes to thinks and feels these are the types of complaints that should be discouraged, or at least limited to a bug request, like, 'hey, item blank is missing just wanted to make sure it wasnt a crash bug' etc where a simple 'oh it was a bug heres ur shit' or 'there was no bug involved' would take care of it just as well, even if the player would get the same attention in the process of seeing where their shit went i second this |
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jan 5, 2015 23:17:26 GMT -5
You can't abuse stealth. It's fucking retarded to think so. If warriors are allowed to bash/kick/disarm without emotes during high-tension PKill situations then by god my PP or assassin doesn't have to give you an emote. By god that's maddening. even if they werent allowed to ur pp or assassin shouldnt even be giving them visible emotes unless its warranted ic (making a sound or moving near the edges of their sight). itd be bad rp to do that when thered be no ic eason for them to notice ur emote |
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