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Post by lyse on Mar 29, 2014 10:33:30 GMT -5
So I was thinking, I've played RPIs off and on for nearly 20 years now. Arm, Harshlands, Fourlands, Southlands etc, you name it; I've had at least one character on there.
Now I'd consider myself a casual player, since I'm getting up there in age, family, work, etc. so I don't have time to invest in playing a character multiple hours a day, everyday like I did in my freshman year of college.
But let's get a list going of things an ideal RPIS would have. For me, one of the problems with RPI's in general is at it's core it's just like any other MUD. That is, a lot of people spend time skilling up and won't really play their character until they do. So a points based chargen would be an ideal thing for me to stop that. Special characters could get more points to play with.
More of a tabletop thing should be happening. Set aside a time for staff run plots, but be consistent with it. As I've said, sitting at a PC isn't something I can do all the time, but I can set aside some time if I knew something was going on.
That's just a couple of things that would make an RPI ideal for me. So, let's get it out there. What's ideal for you?
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
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Post by Patuk on Mar 29, 2014 11:02:17 GMT -5
Permadeath. Being an RPI does not mean you'll magically always have permadeath. It really is a fantastic feature.
Though I, too, think talking about ongoing events or even detailing past events that nonetheless give away currently relevant things(think an event concerning the intricacies of magick/the secrets of a house/the templarate) should stay forbidden, I do think that speaking about things long since irrelevant should be allowed.
I'll add more when/if I think of it.
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Post by topkekm8s on Mar 29, 2014 14:12:33 GMT -5
Set in a space station like Babylon 5 or DS9. Permadeath. Bunch of weird alien races with cool RP stuff that wasn't totally cliche. Cool combat, but nothing too over the top - just a tiny glint of sophistication. A real currency system that was well done. Grittiness. Law and justice, crime and punishment. IC hierarchical structures that weren't paper thin veneers of transparent rp, but rather big, meaty systems filled with real people doing things. A karma system that was more of an open democratic system rather than a old boys club. Responsiveness to new ideas.
oh also the biggest thing is a world that isnt static and linear, but one that is open to change
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 14:34:30 GMT -5
RPI by definition has permadeath, so you don't really need to include it as a criteria. If it's not permadeath, it's not an RPI.
For the most part, I like Armageddon as is. I wish griefers were handled more severely, and I wish people who are -not- griefing, but have intelligent complaints, were taken more seriously and not dismissed or criticized for daring to have a dissenting opinion on things.
I wish there was more oversight and accountability by the staff, and I wish there was a way to return to using e-mails instead of the request tool.
I also wish there was more staff avatar roleplay (as opposed to staff PC roleplay, which is a different matter entirely). I actually enjoy interacting with clan bosses, as long as the experience isn't always being talked down to or scolded. Sometimes, it's nice to have a clan boss show up just to stir the pot a little, or even to give my PC a pat on the head for a job well done, or to simply "touch base."
They don't always have to be plot devices or "consequence-dishers."
I really like the world of Armageddon, and most of the mechanics. I've tried some of the other RPIs but they lacked more than Arm lacks. I've found Armageddon to be the best of the bunch so far, even though there are times I want to stab some of the staffers in the face.
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Post by lyse on Mar 29, 2014 15:26:51 GMT -5
RPI by definition has permadeath, so you don't really need to include it as a criteria. If it's not permadeath, it's not an RPI. For the most part, I like Armageddon as is. I wish griefers were handled more severely, and I wish people who are -not- griefing, but have intelligent complaints, were taken more seriously and not dismissed or criticized for daring to have a dissenting opinion on things. I wish there was more oversight and accountability by the staff, and I wish there was a way to return to using e-mails instead of the request tool. I also wish there was more staff avatar roleplay (as opposed to staff PC roleplay, which is a different matter entirely). I actually enjoy interacting with clan bosses, as long as the experience isn't always being talked down to or scolded. Sometimes, it's nice to have a clan boss show up just to stir the pot a little, or even to give my PC a pat on the head for a job well done, or to simply "touch base." They don't always have to be plot devices or "consequence-dishers." I really like the world of Armageddon, and most of the mechanics. I've tried some of the other RPIs but they lacked more than Arm lacks. I've found Armageddon to be the best of the bunch so far, even though there are times I want to stab some of the staffers in the face. I think a lot of what you are describing used to happen on Arm more often. My thing with Arm is it has such a large, compartmentalized staff the clan boss thing should be doable easily. But for some reason, it's not. The same goes for my idea of running small tabletop style things, sure there can be an overall story arc, but little throwaway "filler" would be awesome too. I really don't want to make this all about Arm, because some of the RPI had awesome ideas and concepts. Harshlands: I loved their crafting system. I thought it was very well done and very comprehensive. So a crafting system like that would be really nice. Fourlands: I forgot the name of the city, but I liked the idea that ANYBODY could be the emperor. The only reason I remember that, I was about a hair from being Empress...then got backstabbed....literally. Southlands: The one thing I loved about this game is the staff would animate shit and you were guaranteed to have fun with it. Didn't always make sense, but loads of fun. Another cool thing is they would email YOU saying "Hey, I think you might like this concept. Wanna try it out?" i still have a lot of things that would be ideal, but I like talking things out and bouncing ideas off of people.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Mar 29, 2014 16:05:29 GMT -5
Shadowrun.
:Edit:
I just realized this wasn't exactly a "setting" idea thread.
But if srsly. I'd lose my shit and play the ever loving -fuck- out of a Shadowrun RPI that caught the spirit and setting of Shadowrun.
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Post by topkekm8s on Mar 29, 2014 16:13:35 GMT -5
cough sindome cough
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 16:23:11 GMT -5
Well Lyse, I thought the intention of the OP was to ask what your ideal RPI would be.
My ideal RPI would be Armageddon, with those few changes I said I wished for.
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Post by legendary on Mar 29, 2014 16:53:58 GMT -5
I enjoy a good cyborg from time to time. My ideal MUD would be Armageddon, about ten years ago, when we still had time to avert the current state of the game. Fourlands: I forgot the name of the city, but I liked the idea that ANYBODY could be the emperor. The only reason I remember that, I was about a hair from being Empress...then got backstabbed....literally. The game had a lot of potential that was squandered by Elwar's obsessive need to control every aspect of it's development. Why he felt the need to punish anyone who didn't agree with him, I'll never understand. He is the very reason he failed, sadly. I would have loved a copy of the game before he closed up shop.
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Post by tektolnes on Mar 29, 2014 17:04:17 GMT -5
Permadeath, or a system where rezes for non-glitch reasons are damn hard to come by. (I would argue that this isn't a given; Dungeons & Dragons has resurrection as it makes sense in the setting, and you wouldn't say D&D isn't Role Play Intensive.)
Obscured, but understood, game mechanics. Hide away the specific point values behind generally understood terminology (much like Arm does for stats and ability scores), but tell players how the system works. One thing Arm did poorly is that it practically MADE OOC communication a necessity by hiding too much of it system and answering non-IC questions with "find out IC." I probably played a year or two before I learned, oocly, that fails were the way to increase a skill. That's incredibly important and not at all In-Character information! Sure, hide the detailed numbers and equations, but tell players "these are the skills that strength effects. This is how encumbrance effects skills." Etc. Players shouldn't have to seek ooc channels to find out details that are, frankly, important to how they play the game.
Crafting system. Crafting is a great way to keep combatants and non-combatants alike busy. (Crafters, Merchants, Hunters, Guards, thieves, you name it.) I like the ability of players to add recipes and crafts to the game. This lets them effect the world in a very real way, and takes the workload of adding content off of the shoulders of the staff.
Clans / power structures where players could get to, or damn near, the top of the ladder. Unlike the Arm model where a player in any clan can only get maybe 1/3 or 1/2 of the way up the ladder before being stored. Give players in these power positions the autonomy to make bad decisions, and let them deal with the consequences.
Support for new and PC created clans. Have some essential, defined criteria by where a player's homebrew clan can gain staff support. For instance, if you can manage to grow your clan to X players, and raise Y amount of moneys from legitimate, non-twinky means (ie, by selling your goods/services to oher players, not by spam-selling silk pants to NPCs) we will build you a 5 room clan hall, and/or a clan sub-thread on our forums. Defining the criteria publicly is essential here, so that players need to know what they have to do, and staff support isn't as random and arbitrary as we've seen it be in Arm.
Staff accountability. The United States is, contrary to popular belief, not a democracy - it's a Constitutional Republic. The difference is that the government (not citizens) of a Constitutional Republic is limited in its powers by a well-defined set of rules. The admin of said RPI should be held to a similar set of rules. These rules could define whether or not they're allowed to actively play characters in the game, and what types of roles they would be allowed to fill. They could define what sort of favors admin are allowed to bestow on players, and under what circumstances. They would define what sort of punishments an admin would be allowed to bestow on a player, and for what offenses. (No complete karma gank or ban for a minor reason.) Additionally, these rules would outline a process by which a player could appeal a staff decision. (ie, a player would be allowed to, without consequence, submit an appeal on a decision which could then be voted on by other non-staff members) All of these rules would be made public to both players and staff as well. Additionally, staff roles should be kept flat (with the possible exception of legal owners of the game). Staff might be seperated into coders, builders, storytellers or whatever, but they're all peers. None of this Nyr is above accountability because he outranks everyone bullshit.
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Post by lyse on Mar 29, 2014 17:29:12 GMT -5
Shadowrun. :Edit: I just realized this wasn't exactly a "setting" idea thread. But if srsly. I'd lose my shit and play the ever loving -fuck- out of a Shadowrun RPI that caught the spirit and setting of Shadowrun. I love the idea of a Sci-Fi RPI. Not sure how the ranged combat would work, since that would mostly be what happens in it. But, with this RPI engine coming out it would definitely be possible. I had an idea of an RPI sci-fi MUD based on the old Alternity system years ago. But Shadowrun was may second favorite TT game behind D&D.
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mood
Displaced Tuluki
JOHN DARNIELLE #1 FANZONE
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Post by mood on Mar 30, 2014 18:34:52 GMT -5
tammany hall era new york. for real.
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Post by RogueCumSlinger on Mar 30, 2014 23:33:27 GMT -5
Someone (lyse) hasn't heard of Atonement. The 1800's New York shit would be really damn cool. Anyway, me and a good buddy made up lore for a RPI that we'll try and make if Kith and Japth(?) ever finish FutureMUD. It's a post-apocalyptic RPI with sci-fi elements and dinosaurs. The majority of the game would take place in a metro system (think Metro 2033) and the society of the one (or two) cities would be heavily inspired by the 1950s.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2014 1:37:05 GMT -5
I once played a mud that would've been absolutely awesome if it was still around. It began as a pay-to-play project by Vr1. The plan was for AOL to be it's distributor and it was at the exact time when it was becoming painfully obvious that MUDs are not economically viable. The game remained open beta albeit for 3 years, while officially cancelled in development Then finally shut down when Vr1 got sold to some other company. It was so damn awesome. It was called Vr1 Crossroads. I am pretty certain that some of the people who were part of its making, were part of creation of the Secret World mmorpg.
So the world is two fold. One you have the physical world. The city built on a massive gathering of laylines. In it various secret societies have infiltrated groups in, which fight for control over the city. There you have Men in Black types factions that use technology and special Ops techniques. You have mages who use ... magick. You have psionicists, you have mad scientists, you have people from the future, the undercover aliens, etc. There is basically a bunch of factions each with its own twist, divided into three categories of Magick, Clandestine, Technology. Clandestine is shady/martial arts/picklocks/batman/007 style gizmos. Technology is built a killer robot type thing. Each faction has a deep background lore and very often there is a piece of secret lore hidden in one faction about the other. It's very interesting.
The fun part about it is that majority of the city is controlled by law and you cannot really fight there easily. It's filled with NPCs of various bodies. A character is capable of accruing influence in various fields. So for example, if he bribes/coerces/mindbends enough policemen NPCs, he can purchase a license to kill. Which basically means cops turn off surveillance on you for so many hours, during which you can perform one PKill. If you bribe enough people in telephone companies, you can run traces on cell phones. If you bribe enough people in criminal orgs, you get access to blackmail materials on other npcs, blackmarkets, access to certain bars and dives, if you bribe students/professors, you can get access to techie shops, or if you get good with artists, you can get into hermetic/shamanic shops, etc. It's all very interconnected. There used to be some real "undercover" fights over the Mayor. People would blackmail him and then keep trying to ward him up or pump him full of drugs, so others wouldnt be able to mindcontrol him and stuff. So that's one side of the world.
The other side of the world is the Dreamworld. To Gain magick in physical world, you have to sleep at laylines. You dont have to sleep there, you can sleep anywhere. But to connect to a layline you have to spend at least an hour sleeping in that location. Either way, sleeping sends you to dream world. The more lay lines you connect yourself to, the more powerful you are. But of course, if you're just sleep in random locations, sooner or later you will find yourself either unable to wake up due to deadness, or stripped clean and your body fucked to shits.
Dream world is the world of full magick. If in the physical world magick is tangible. reagants, ingridients, enchantments, voodoo dolls, etc. In the dreamworld magick is full on. Fireballs, flying, magickal shields, dispels, demons, conjuring, etc. The NPCs dream as well and sometimes you are able to find out what NPCs fear (and can be blackmailed with) by influencing their dream selves, etc. Killing and fighting is easier there, since if you die in the dreamworld, you just wake up.
If you die in the physical world. Your body is gone. And you are sent to dream world. If you die there, you are completely dead. There is a slim chance of being able to have a body built for you and resurrect yourself. But it basically means you have to have some pretty powerful, influential, and rich people to build it for you in the physical world. Needless to say, if you got real enemies, that means you'll be spending a lot of that time fighting for your life in the dreamworld, dodging summons and attacks.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 31, 2014 23:10:11 GMT -5
I don't want to repeat anyone. i mostly or completely agree with what I've read so far. So here are some additions.
I've mentioned I love permadeath but I dislike starting over from scratch. to be clear, I mean stat and skillwise, not ally-wise. That should always be reset for a new character.
The reasons for this are MUDs aren't tabletop games. If youre making an RPI you need to internalize that thinking. people playing a tabletop game know each other. Their characters are going to get together. Ditto for replacement characters. A MUD is the opposite. People aren't supposed to just run and rejoin their own allies. so unless you want to encourage people contrive OOCly to "just run into each other again by chance lol" you need to build your game around people being able to lone wolf until they find a pack.
Let me try and extrapolate that thought with an example. The OOC group vs OOC individual issue is probably the main reason most MUDs can't do Shadowrun right. It's easily my favorite tabletop game out of those I've played. so it's painful for me to concede making a Shadowrun MUD that played like Shadowrun would be incredibly hard. Yeah, you can put in cyber, and maybe you can automate the Matrix. But the astral for anything but recon and combat is a wash unless you have someone GMing it. At least for pre-SR4 astral.
And the reason these things are problems is Shadowrun has downtime. Between gaming sessions time leaps forward. You can do this because a gaming group is a gaming group. it's not individuals all over the world logging in at the same time in different timezones. it's not people whose 3am is someone else's midnight. So instead of downtime you have people milling about trying to find shit to do between runs. Downtime is when leveling up happens to 1) prolong suspension of disbelief 2) without being fucking boring in the process. So right off the bat you have to find something to fill all that time you now have. that or spend all your time trying to do runs.
Aaaaaaaaaaand runs are dependent upon everyone you'd need being around.
You can't just have runner teams like you do in tabletop. If you did, how would it work? so you have some friends but youre not all in the same time zone because you know each other through the internet. You're all over the world. And that's a big fucking deal when your decker's 3Am means your team can't do a run. Or when your shaman and mage (who are married) can't log in while your team is lost in the middle of Bug fucking City Chicago.
So when you make an RPI you have to HAVE TO understand you're building for a LOOSE COMMUNITY of players. People who will start each character alone. People who can get stuck missing their "team" and viceversa. youre not building for a single group of friends. Not building for people who will start with a team. And shadowrun is not alone in this problem when made a MUD. It's just really easy to use for this because the class differences are so stark.
So, the point?
If anything I'd say abandon the guild/class/caste system wherever it's possible without hurting the setting. Thats with any RP game you make, not just a Shadowrun base. Adopt a single-player RPG mindset. Let people develop whatever skills they want, but with limits. maybe make some skills only available to a class but have a bunch of ancillaries anyone can have. You have no way of knowing what wull be available for a character to develop into. playersneed to stay busy on their own until teams/clans happen to them. And for fucks sake stop requiring that everyone start over from scratch.
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