delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 27, 2013 13:06:18 GMT -5
It's just one of the many points about Arm that has always bothered me. The fact that documentation is gods word and if you don't follow it you will be smited (smitten?) from above. It's just totally sad that they took DS, gutted and twisted it into their own form of it which still resembles it greatly but has gotten so far away from the post-apocalyptic earth that it actually is. People tout that Arm is it's own setting, sure I guess it is but it's taken so much from DS that it pisses me off when they screw it up so badly in the docs which are just badly copied version of DS documentation.
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Post by armqwerty on Jan 29, 2013 14:57:08 GMT -5
Here's a problem. Say things are different. Say there are no rules. No rules set up to prevent delves from living in the cities, no rules preventing anything.
Will it allow an occasional individual 'exception' type elf to say, "Nah. I dont want to live in the sands, I want to live in the cities?" Yes, it would. Will that be terrible? Not really.
Problem is that it will not be an individual 'exception' type elf doing. The elves who will choose to stay in their coded tribes and feel claustrophobic will be the individual rare exceptions. The rest will simply choose delf to be humans with super running abilities, extra stam and hp, extra skills in sneak/hide, then go into the city and go play in the Byn.
Plenty of people choose dwarves and pick up some very bullshit focus just to go through the motions of going along the rules, or do you disagree?
If there are no rules. Halflings would be visiting the taverns, nobody would hate mages, half-giants would be intelligent. People would go for the highest karma guilds/races, just to get the benefit of extra stats/skills, and then just proclaim themselves "exception" to the rule. The mud will be pure power gamer heaven. I am not saying 'everyone' will go for it, but I would definitely go for a very high percentage, if not majority.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 30, 2013 19:39:53 GMT -5
I'm not saying 'no rules'. Halflings will eat your face. Elves can run marathons at a time. Templars are corrupt. I understand this. DS is very specific about these things. My problem is the way they force players into certain roles. Forcing "desert" elves to be in tribes is ridiculous. Forcing magickers to be hunted down by most of the Known world is not. It makes sense.
It makes no sense to restrict players and their imaginations!
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Post by armqwerty on Jan 30, 2013 22:16:58 GMT -5
Red Fangs was a tribe with barely any rules. For the longest while their numbers and strength was kept down by their short lifespan, lack of a camp, and everyone killing them. But when X-D and Majickal took over and the lifespan of an RF increased, they owned the entire gameworld. Cities and wilderness. That's what happens when you have a group of Delves without a tribe, or a tribe whose rules and tradition basically say "kick ass or die". In a way, it was lucky that X-D and Majickal are not 'too' twinky' or kill happy. Things might have been much worse if they were keen on pkills as ways to solve problems.
Humans are the race of no restrictions. At least in Armageddon anyway. All other races and higher karma roles all have some particular restrictions. This is just a cross Delves are ment to bear. Dont like it? Play a human tribal.
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Post by jcarter on Jan 30, 2013 23:03:55 GMT -5
In a way, it was lucky that X-D and Majickal are not 'too' twinky' or kill happy. Things might have been much worse if they were keen on pkills as ways to solve problems. ahahahahaahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Jan 31, 2013 18:09:11 GMT -5
You are aware that the tribe enforcement was a new concept around 2002-2003. Prior to this point, (about half of Arm's existance) tribeless d-elves were allowed. D-elves were commonly found in the Byn. They were the best scouts and fit in just fine. The only reason they took away this freedom was because a lot of players were making d-elves and not playing their cultural backgrounds. It's unfortunate because I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. So a human can be anything but an elf can't? I don't get that.
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Post by armqwerty on Jan 31, 2013 21:05:06 GMT -5
So a human can be sociable and the mul must be consumed by hatred?
So a human can be smart and a half giant cant be?
So a human can idle around in the tavern, live his life aimlessly, and when he can feel he is being manipulated via one of his whatever goals he can just ... walk away, and a dwarf cant?
So a human is accepted and welcomed mostly and is not plagued by various self-esteem issues, and the breed 'must' be?
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deadelf
staff puppet account
Posts: 44
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Post by deadelf on Feb 1, 2013 8:49:49 GMT -5
What is the point of playing an elf if you are just a human with a few stat boosts? From Dark Sun Campaign Setting Guide 2nd Edition about Elves:
While the last remnants of civilization huddle around pools of brackish water and clumps of withered vegetation, the elves of Athas run free. Elf villages are even less likely to be found than a pool of clear water in the desert, for elves only stop running when they fall down and die. Silver Spring, of course, is a notable exception. Otherwise, elves gather in nomadic tribes that revel in theft, raiding, and warfare. Elves are excellent merchants, though they have no concept of fair trade practices. Anything goes when dealing with an elf trader. ... Elves are generally lazy and deceitful. They strive to lead short, happy lives as opposed to long, sad ones. For an elf, the future is a dark, deadly place, so he strug- gles to make every moment (every now, as the elves speak of it) as enjoyable and full as possible. Elves will do whatever is necessary to keep themselves and their tribemates alive and prosperous, but no more. When the work is done, and not a moment later, the fun begins. They engage in long periods of frenzied feasting and raucous revelry. Elf tribes do work, however, mostly at hunting and foraging, for they don’t farm. They detest hard labor and never construct anything larger or more per- manent than a market tent, but they will spend long hours haggling over the price of a single trade good.
Blessed with lightning-fast reflexes and uncanny speed, elves are natural runners. They are swift, sure, and extremely self-reliant. In the cities, elves represent their tribes in the trading bazaars and market districts. Usually too fast and canny to be caught by slavers, the elf that finds himself locked away usually dries up and dies like a darcu fruit cut from its vine.
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bmj2
Clueless newb
Posts: 81
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Post by bmj2 on Feb 1, 2013 18:32:24 GMT -5
If I remember the discussion right on the staff side the argument was made that due to the level of abuse possible with a d-elf they made them karma required. However the reason they are different then C-elfs codewise is to allow elves to be played without karma. If d-elves and c-elves were codedly the same, then all elves would have to be karma required... which wouldn't be fun.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Feb 2, 2013 22:08:01 GMT -5
Seriously hardly anybody plays city elves.
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jjhardy
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 288
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Post by jjhardy on Feb 2, 2013 22:12:23 GMT -5
Let's get a real discussion going please, this is just like the GDB, same crap generating infinite responses.
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Post by erdlu on Feb 12, 2013 4:54:56 GMT -5
Seriously hardly anybody plays city elves. That's cause they're broken. Akai Sjir serves the Templarate (serving humans... what?), the Jaxa Pah (and I have a feeling Staff is hardly interested investing time and attention into this tribe), as romantic as the thought may be, are hardly a competition for the Guild. C-elves are just too squishy.
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bmj2
Clueless newb
Posts: 81
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Post by bmj2 on Feb 12, 2013 9:52:25 GMT -5
Seriously hardly anybody plays city elves. This is more a pbase size issue than a "their stats are too low" issue. With the limited size of the pbase players seem to play characters that will have the highest likely hood of positive interactions with other players, rather than play the one type/race of character that will have them essentially playing alone all the time.
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Post by armqwerty on Feb 12, 2013 21:44:41 GMT -5
The few times I got involved with Jaxa Pah. They totally owned the alleys. They have some strengths, compared to the humans. They're just a lot more difficult to utilize.
And Akai Sjir serves Muk Utep. Not humans. Templarate just happens to be 'one' way to serve Utep. But yeah, akai sjir were definitely mindfucked with psionically.
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Post by nobodyatall on Mar 11, 2013 9:22:57 GMT -5
Yeah, the Akai Sjir are that way for some very strong IC reasons, but let's be honest - the Jaxa work for the Blue Robes like 80% of the time too.
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