|
|
Post by sirra on Dec 20, 2014 9:42:34 GMT -5
The most important one by far is the weapon to race skills. That makes a huge difference. Enough, for example, for a ranger with maxed out humanoid to trounce a warrior. I've experienced this both ways. I had a RF who branched razors, and Slinks could rape his face. Fairly effortlessly. And I twinked pretty hard on that RF. That same RF would not go near spiders, long after (in terms of playtime) my mounted warriors could farm them.
The main advantages for a warrior, against a ranger, is that they have a higher ceiling. If they twink badly enough, they'll eventually have 5-10 extra points of parry (forget the exact amount), which makes a huge difference, and branch into weapon skills that a ranger cannot train. I never got to use razors against Slinks cause I never found one, in months of trying, and was starting over to get tridents when I died.
Your skill in slashing, for example, factors into parrying slashing weapons. A ranger will never have the pike or trident weapons skill, to aid in their parrying.
People often point to bash and disarm as crucial, but to be honest, it highly depends. Yes, my one PK as a delf came because I was successfully bashed by a half-giant. And I've killed MANY people by bashing them successfully. But a very simple counter to that is to fight mounted.
I've fought extremely high statted warriors, from giants to delves, and I've never had being disarmed be the pivotal moment in a fight. I always carried extra weapons of course, but the disarm often proved more lethal to them (either they fumbled, or were in skill lag while I struck back). There's an example on this board...Grom, a 120 day+ half-giant warrior, who was trained up about as far as a half-giant could possibly be in the most twinkiest of ways (I would know, I helped), failed to disarm me twice, after avoiding my charge (an incredible good luck for him), and was still in skill lag when I charged him again.
As a half-giant myself, I learned to bash and attack my foe's mount, which always shocked the hell out of people. IIRC, even Nadhir killed one of the staff miloka by attacking and killing their beetle. But I've never had it used against me. Absent from playing a half-giant, I always found bash to be a massive crap-shoot on every other character, with it seeming to have a base 25% chance to fail no matter what...at least as a dwarf. Some people are luckier than others.
Another great warrior advantage is shield. I had a human nomad warrior who farmed tarantulas with a shield, sword and war beetle, in fairly complete safety. He was like the only person in the tribe. I eventually stored/suicided him. But it was great skilling up with him. The tribal camp was out in the wastes, near spiders, and I had a tent all to myself to sleep in between bouts.
Unfortunately, shield is VERY easy to max, and in the long-run, it stunts your growth BIG TIME, so I stopped using it except in life or death encounters. I wanted the spiders to hit me once or twice, and with the shield it would never happen.
I love having a high ride on a warrior. I tried making a half-elf warrior once, but the half-elf ride seemed much inferior to nomad. Ride is pivotal to being a beast in the wastes. Bash, disarm and kick will take forever and ever and ever (50 days+) even while twinking, to become worth doing in a life or death situation. Owing to lack of anyone to spar with, and disallowed from joining Kuraci, my highest skilled nomad warrior barely touched them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 11:19:09 GMT -5
Bash is mostly about height, both offensively and defensively. That's why dwarves are so terrible at it even when skilled, and half-giants are godlike. Max-height elves can also be brutal bashers, and I've had human warriors with middling bash skill get counter-knockdowned by random shitty elves who otherwise had no business doing something like that. If you want to help yourself, always make your warriors max height for their race.
|
|
|
|
Post by hyperion on Dec 26, 2014 11:55:40 GMT -5
thread sweep here
Its possible to have your base weapon skill raise as fast as parry if you really want it to. I've had characters with advanced weapon and advanced parry before one day played. the big trouble here is that the 'ooc' game is set up in such a way to prohibit and prevent this kind of skill growth normally.
Warriors are pretty cool in a melee fight, but they are one of the suckiest, if not the most pathetic, pvp options in the game, thanks to no scan and shit ranged ability. even the scan granted by the extended subguilds is total trash relative to the ninja fu all hide skills give their users, you won't see anyone with hide so you can't go looking for trouble it has to find you. ironically, this makes all pc warriors trying to do city work total crap, but is ignored by all the npcs who are warriors with master scan tacked on.
more or less the same with archery, no tacked on archery buff is as good as ranger/assassin shoot/throw. don't even get me started on what some of the other thief classes can do with their throw.
hgs make the most potent warriors in the game, as they take all aspects of the guild to the nth degree except branched weaponry. i'd argue that's not even worth considering though, since a advanced weapon skill hg with full parry and a decent chunk of base o/d can solo anything in the game in a hit or two while under no real threat. basically if a hg warrior with some playtime finds you and wants you dead, you are dead. again, trouble is they have to find you, which they can never do unless you let them.
|
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Dec 26, 2014 14:52:44 GMT -5
thread sweep here Its possible to have your base weapon skill raise as fast as parry if you really want it to. I've had characters with advanced weapon and advanced parry before one day played. the big trouble here is that the 'ooc' game is set up in such a way to prohibit and prevent this kind of skill growth normally. Warriors are pretty cool in a melee fight, but they are one of the suckiest, if not the most pathetic, pvp options in the game, thanks to no scan and shit ranged ability. even the scan granted by the extended subguilds is total trash relative to the ninja fu all hide skills give their users, you won't see anyone with hide so you can't go looking for trouble it has to find you. ironically, this makes all pc warriors trying to do city work total crap, but is ignored by all the npcs who are warriors with master scan tacked on. more or less the same with archery, no tacked on archery buff is as good as ranger/assassin shoot/throw. don't even get me started on what some of the other thief classes can do with their throw. hgs make the most potent warriors in the game, as they take all aspects of the guild to the nth degree except branched weaponry. i'd argue that's not even worth considering though, since a advanced weapon skill hg with full parry and a decent chunk of base o/d can solo anything in the game in a hit or two while under no real threat. basically if a hg warrior with some playtime finds you and wants you dead, you are dead. again, trouble is they have to find you, which they can never do unless you let them. This post has an interesting mix of truth and some stuff I disagree with. 1) I don't think it's remotely possible to raise weapon skills as fast as parry, outside perhaps, some kind of situation involving extreme luck, or absolutely incredible wisdom, or maybe, just maybe, this might be referring to a code abuse from many years ago, where you could in fact max out weapon skills very easily, using a certain trick to do with holding a weapon in your off hand. 2) You're right about ranged being shit, and the scan ability as well. But warriors have never been the best at pvp in the wastes. Rangers are, with ride, poison, hiding/scan and archery. In the wastes, a warrior better hope he took a riding subguild and keep his shield up at all times. What a warrior is, is immensely powerful, situationally. But when those situations come up, no one will beat them. I think half-giants are overrated. I've personally killed, in hand to hand combat, a 120+ day half-giant warrior who was about as code-skilled up as it's reasonably possible to expect. I did that on a human ranger. Obviously, half-giants are terrifying in an enclosed space with nowhere to go, but so is any warrior. In my opinion, the most fearsome warrior is a human or dwarf that manages to get an advanced weapon up fairly high. An average statted human or dwarf, who gets a trident or pike skill high enough, will hit harder than a mul and tear apart rangers. But yes, a warrior is best when paired with a good ranger, or someone else that can compensate for their perception weakness. |
|
|
|
Post by legendary on Dec 26, 2014 16:45:24 GMT -5
Its possible to have your base weapon skill raise as fast as parry if you really want it to. No, it isn't. Even with special application skill bumps, parry will be at master long before you're close to breaking into master with your weapon skill of choice. The sole exception to this would be "sparring" a certain NPC that is coded to disallow even an attempt at parry, block and dodge. If you somehow managed to find a way to this NPC on a warrior, if you were somehow impossibly stacked enough to survive more than a single hit from it, you would find yourself having a very frank discussion with Nyr and likely stored for your trouble. If you've somehow found a way to do as you say, my advice is you keep it to yourself, else it be 'fixed' in short order. |
|
Kronibas 2.0
Displaced Tuluki
this account will go inactive once I hit 420 posts
Posts: 389 
|
Post by Kronibas 2.0 on Dec 26, 2014 19:06:33 GMT -5
step 1. log in every 45 minutes with average wisdom to spar a stilt lizard. get 20+ checks on weapon skills and 3+ or so checks on parry step 2. master weapon and parry at same time step 3.  step 4. profit irl because u tough bro |
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Dec 27, 2014 0:23:12 GMT -5
step 1. log in every 45 minutes with average wisdom to spar a stilt lizard. get 20+ checks on weapon skills and 3+ or so checks on parry step 2. master weapon and parry at same time step 3. step 4. profit irl because u tough bro That's not how it works in practice, though. From what I've observed anyways, I think your chance to raise a weapon skill is only procced on the first miss. Then you have to wait a variable time to have a chance at raising it again.The reason why parry advances faster is because it improves automatically (as do some other skills) on a failure. I've taken many, many characters up to weapon mastery. I can max parry in only a day or two of playtime. Weapon skills would take 15 days+, even hardcore twinking, to branch an advanced weapon. And by hardcore twinking, I mean, get 30+ misses at a time, going out every hour like clockwork, while staying logged in. In my later characters, after I got past my 'twinking phase', I would only go for one or two misses every now and then, and provided I played regularly and was active in hunting and combat, I reached weapon mastery in a relatively similar amount of time. Maybe a couple days off. Obviously, an indie hunter can accomplish in ~15 days, what a Bynner or city/house guard would take 40+ days for. I was more concerned about offense/defense, generally, than skills, towards the end. And killing gith to raise my hidden humanoid score. That said...if you don't think Nyr, Morgenes and Ness fuck with the formulas for this kind of stuff constantly, I've got some beachfront property in Lousiana to sell you. Which means there is a very high probability that we're all right, depending on which year we went through our biggest twink phase. |
|
|
|
Post by Tektrollnes on Dec 27, 2014 1:55:37 GMT -5
Throw got nerfed. A thrown spear would knock someone on their ass every time, before the nerf. Accuracy and effectiveness were both nerfed on thrown weapons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Tektrollnes on Dec 27, 2014 1:57:21 GMT -5
I might have been abusing throw.
|
|
|
|
Post by hyperion on Dec 28, 2014 13:37:35 GMT -5
Its wonderful to be doubted: it shows a serious lack of understanding to say that weapon skill can't raise as fast as parry
1) Your speculation on the skill interaction part is dead wrong.
2) Average wisdom. anyone who knows how to raise skills and is going for rapid branching knows that wis is a dump stat on warriors but like i said the ooc limitations will crush you. though I see that some players get away with it and others don't, funny that
3) sounds like the giant threw the fight i can't come up with anything else here, unless it was a 120 days and no skill above apprentice/30 ish
4) i am not the only poster on this board who knows this to be true
|
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Dec 29, 2014 11:04:22 GMT -5
Its wonderful to be doubted: it shows a serious lack of understanding to say that weapon skill can't raise as fast as parry 1) Your speculation on the skill interaction part is dead wrong. 2) Average wisdom. anyone who knows how to raise skills and is going for rapid branching knows that wis is a dump stat on warriors but like i said the ooc limitations will crush you. though I see that some players get away with it and others don't, funny that 3) sounds like the giant threw the fight i can't come up with anything else here, unless it was a 120 days and no skill above apprentice/30 ish 4) i am not the only poster on this board who knows this to be true You're an idiot if you really think the giant threw the fight. lol. The log is up on this board. Anyhow. Most everything you've said is in direct contradiction to 10+ years of experience twinking, and learning from better men than you or myself. There was only one time where getting a weapon skill up was nearly as easy as you're making it out to be, and that was fixed like 7 years ago. If there's some other secret, cheater method, then as legendary said, you're welcome to it. As I said before, at one time, it was possible to get automatic misses, even on like a gerbil. EDIT: And your insistence that a half-giant warrior couldn't possibly lose a fight, just goes to show how ignorant you really are. I'll take a ranger in the wastes any day of the week over a HG warrior, pre and post charge nerf. |
|
|
|
Post by cjfunkmeister on Dec 30, 2014 0:36:54 GMT -5
hgs make the most potent warriors in the game, as they take all aspects of the guild to the nth degree except branched weaponry. i'd argue that's not even worth considering though, since a advanced weapon skill hg with full parry and a decent chunk of base o/d can solo anything in the game in a hit or two while under no real threat. basically if a hg warrior with some playtime finds you and wants you dead, you are dead. again, trouble is they have to find you, which they can never do unless you let them.I have to say that this is not entirely untrue and I'm sure most players would agree. As far as I'm aware, no-one has watch on in all directions simultaneously and if a skilled half-giant warrior wants you, gets the drop on you and pounds you to the ground you're most likely finished. It's probably worse nowadays because they can see their skill levels, and not just how badass they feel they are. You made it look easy in that log with your pre-nerf riding Ranger, Sirra, but the situation was in your favor with peraine weapons while riding and charging the target down. You admit in that post of the log, that you might have been fucked if he landed a hit on you. So while you might disagree hg/warrior being the be-all, it's certainly up there. Rangers are cool, too, nuff said. Especially now that full sorcs are gone, no-one is unstoppable and I have to say that's one of the things I love about Arm. That it doesn't matter how badass you think you are, Delerak's still going to find a way to kill you. Or Sirra is. Anyone but Lulz, because the worst part is what happens after you're dead. Edit: Seriously though, I salute you for giving zero fucks and charging a 100+ HG/anything in the face like that. |
|
|
|
Post by Tektrollnes on Dec 30, 2014 3:47:45 GMT -5
I had a dwarf with ai int and poor strength and at 30 day played even with alot of time in the Byn was still weak as fuck in combat.
|
|
|
|
Post by sirra on Dec 30, 2014 14:48:04 GMT -5
hgs make the most potent warriors in the game, as they take all aspects of the guild to the nth degree except branched weaponry. i'd argue that's not even worth considering though, since a advanced weapon skill hg with full parry and a decent chunk of base o/d can solo anything in the game in a hit or two while under no real threat. basically if a hg warrior with some playtime finds you and wants you dead, you are dead. again, trouble is they have to find you, which they can never do unless you let them.I have to say that this is not entirely untrue and I'm sure most players would agree. As far as I'm aware, no-one has watch on in all directions simultaneously and if a skilled half-giant warrior wants you, gets the drop on you and pounds you to the ground you're most likely finished. It's probably worse nowadays because they can see their skill levels, and not just how badass they feel they are. You made it look easy in that log with your pre-nerf riding Ranger, Sirra, but the situation was in your favor with peraine weapons while riding and charging the target down. You admit in that post of the log, that you might have been fucked if he landed a hit on you. So while you might disagree hg/warrior being the be-all, it's certainly up there. Rangers are cool, too, nuff said. Especially now that full sorcs are gone, no-one is unstoppable and I have to say that's one of the things I love about Arm. That it doesn't matter how badass you think you are, Delerak's still going to find a way to kill you. Or Sirra is. Anyone but Lulz, because the worst part is what happens after you're dead. Edit: Seriously though, I salute you for giving zero fucks and charging a 100+ HG/anything in the face like that. The combination of half-giants typically appalling riding, poison skills, scanning, sneaking, and archery is what makes them a far lesser threat. They also can't bash mounted opponents. (Although, when I played an HG, I did surprise people by bashing or subduing their mounts). My best HG was a ranger, who rode around with dual weapons out and used charge instead of bash. My opinion remains the same though, that an HG is only super dangerous in a situation where you'd be equally fucked with any top warrior in your face, as in some room or confined space. I'd also rather take my chance against an HG with shitty weapon skills, than try it against say, a dwarf like abuzer with a high advanced weapon. I did make it look easy in that one log. Grom made several stupid mistakes. He dismounted, he tried to disarm me twice. He should've just fled, or at least brought his shield up. But I have much more experience with HGs besides Grom, both in fighting and being one. The only time I was ever really concerned about HGs (since my rangers and warriors always had no-hand ride as a prerequisite), was as a delf, where bash and charge was an ever present danger. I'd rather tangle with an HG warrior played by Del, than say, a ranger of his (re: poison and stealth). A ranger/thug HG in the hands of a skilled player is incredibly fucking dangerous, though. This is true. You are right though, that having the weapon skill levels be displayed has lead to warriors in general, not just half-giants, becoming much better than they used to. Much of what I took for granted even a few years ago, is probably not the case in 2015. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2014 20:45:27 GMT -5
I mostly agree with your post, but I thought to point out that throw can remove a rider from a mount, and put them prone. Grom relied too much on his image and melee ability. Pvp in Arm isn't about those things.
|
|
