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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 14:23:44 GMT -5
I am 15 in this example. I login to ARM I verify I am 18+ I play the game I am asked ooc consent and 18+? I verify consent and 18+ How do you handle it, like give me the play by play. My best solution right now is for players to be mindful of it themselves. As far as actual policy goes, I think there should probably be some token 18+ notice, or at least something tied in with the consent policy if there isn't already.When all that shit went down in the early 2000's, there was no consent policy. Safeguarding the game with legal shields is one thing. and i think, in the grand scheme of things, IT IS important. Actually preventing it from happening is trickier. minors lie every single day, probably literally millions of times a day, to watch porn. The thing you have to worry about is when some kid's mom sees this shit, freaks out, and gets the law involved. Yeah, if the kid had electronically signed all this shit saying they were 18, the game would have a measure of protection. i am NOT trying to attack ArmageddonMUD when I write this; I have been trying to discuss the game from a sympathetic, encouraging point of view lately, though I admit I have fallen short at times, but this is a valid question: what, legally, CAN happen to the adult obliviously mudsexing a minor, and just how responsible is the game itself if it goes to court? These are questions whose answers probably HAVE been fought over in a court of law before. but i am a common criminal, english teacher, and former rifleman.... not a lawyer. There is probably case law on file about this very same kinda thing, but it's important to remember that, in law, there is very little objective truth: potential court cases involving shit like this would be entirely situational, and I very seriously doubt much would happen to the adult, especially if it could be proven that they were truly oblivious to the other person's age, ESPECIALLY if there were clauses on the consent contract or on a contract granting a minor permission to play. I really don't enjoy discussing this much at all, but I do think that these problems are things that we SHOULD BE mindful of... and the documentation/rules of the game probably DO need to reflect the fact that we, collectively as a community, want to AVOID situations like this. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 14:26:17 GMT -5
nod Jeshin, I had considered your totally valid point in the last post, and again, when people are actively lying about it or being deceptive... then it is harder to think about or find solutions to. but it's probably true that, like with porn sites... if they want to do it, then they shouldn't be allowed to do it honestly, per the game's policy.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 14:39:52 GMT -5
Ever since I was like "hey GDB guys, let's play nice and try to stop this whole escalating drama bullshit," it seems like it has been happening more. For instance, Arma Phan didn't come over here to have an actual, adult conversation about the thread they rezzed: they came over here to pick a fight, to argue. Look at the entirety of their post history, too, which is them just fighting with lulz about a ridiculous situation in the first place. There are lots of things that merit discussion when it comes to ArmageddonMUD. Someone in the past couple of pages said it best when they mentioned that, for the most part, there are more pressing issues to think about now that we have all been reminded about the fact that minors play as well, and players need to be careful when mudsexxing like it's 1969 because their partner may not be of age. So: being mindful of potential realities discussed over the past couple of pages, I suggest we advance the discussion to more pressing topics, like why LordDoody Pants is boring... why FartyTroll used that CRAA-ZY spell to PK GruntButt, or maybe who was wearing the most expensive custom item at the recent Finally Fucking Branched Listen Festival. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 15:22:29 GMT -5
This place has become too weird and unappealing. Maybe there's not enough to talk about now that Nyr is gone or something, I dunno, but this forum has become off-putting and shitty in the last months. Only the crazies post anymore. It's been fun, and I think we accomplished something, but I'm off. Take care. Agreed. Is there anyway a user can just ignore posts by another user so they're just always hidden? |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Feb 13, 2016 15:31:51 GMT -5
click username
click down arrow beside gear toggle beside send msg
click block member
adjust prefs however u want
u may do it, but most ppl will just talk about doing it because theyre more interested in making the poster unable to post/stopping everyone else from seeing his posts rather than doing it for their own sake
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 15:34:18 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 16:52:27 GMT -5
from RAT:
Jihelu wrote:
"http://www.armageddon.org/cgi-bin/help_index/show_help?armageddon
Flash back
Also @ the whole "Becoming an elemental thing"
Damn.
'As a magicker your character may one day become
a fabled elemental being'"
Yes man, but what they don't say in the help files is that many characters face force-storage soon after becoming an elemental.
In fact, some players have been forced into this transformation just so that their characters might be force stored even more quickly.
This force storage thing, which has been touched on a few times in this last week, is a relatively new thing to the game... and it is something that many would argue is arbitrarily used, often having more to do with the player than the character in question. In the opinion of at least several players, it is Bad and actually makes the docs look, at best, dated/inaccurate, or, at worst, deceptive.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:23:42 GMT -5
Force storage isn't relatively new. Or any new. Marc posted in the bragging thread a few years ago a list of characters he had. One was a Blackwing who was force-stored. Another was a Blackmoon who was force-stored. Another was force-stored when subguilds and sap were new. Blackwing hasn't been a playable tribe in how many years? How about Blackmoon? When were sap and subguilds rolled out?
That's just one player, with three force-storages from more than 10 years ago on each.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:40:04 GMT -5
I played in the Black Moon when it was Crunk As Fuck, and I don't remember any force storages or even any talk of it. and boy, even though my guy didn't last long, that clan was so well done and so much fucking fun.
Blackwing Desert Elf was actually a separate karma option that I had access to. But I never played one. By 1999, even though they were apparently handing out karma for the BW, it was an all-but-obselete ISO Clan like the Conclave and the Tan Muark. So I can't speak to that.
The first forced storage I heard of was Samos. Wasn't even aware Ceylara was force stored. And after that, word of them seemed to crop up more and more.
I am not going to call a player a liar if they say they had multiple characters forced in times on antiquity (subguilds would have been in the early-maybe mid 2000s of the top of my head), but there seems to be an increased frequency with forced storages... at least when Nyr was doing his thing.
I don't know. I said it already in that other thread, but I think OOC force storages should really only come about due to inactivity on the parts of GMH family members or GMH sponsored roles, templars, nobles, or sponsored roles designed to supplement those characters.
If a character becomes "too powerful" like Samos, well... I think there are alternatives to force storage when it comes to that. Expanding the definition of "sponsored characters" to include all elves, leadership PCs, and Minor House leaders lets just even more characters be prone to forced storages.
If force storing characters outside of the templar/noble/GMH trifecta was done in the past, I imagine many instances, were instances of abuse. Whatever the case may be, forced storages, in the time of Nyr, seem to be on the uptick... and people were vocal about it.
I hope that Rath and the new crew of staff can make better decisions when it comes to forcing players to put away their characters. Maybe sometimes it's for the best, but it does keep me away from sponsored roles, if but for the fact that I like the idea of being able to take a break from the game and come back to the same character. I think I should be able to leave a desert elf inactive for six months and log back in like it was nobody's business. or any character, really, who wasn't brought into the game as a sponsored character with increased/added skills, bumps, special items, any of that.
Those characters? Force store them if they aren't holding up their end of the bargain. Others? Leave them alone...
btw, how the hell did Samos get force stored more quickly than Qoriya? I never had any dealings with the latter, but so many players were absolutely livid of that char... and it seems like Samos had a much shorter lifespan IG.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:44:49 GMT -5
why is this important, the talk of force storages?
well, in a time when we are all presumably trying to move forward and make a healthy game, i just think it is not only fair but responsible to look at recent trends that caught a lot of negative attention... and try to steer policy away from points of contention that have resulted in eruptions. force storages are definitely on that list.
FWIW, I have never been force stored outside of what was appropriate: stupid shit with a Salarri family member, and not playing a templar when I was given access to play one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:49:31 GMT -5
as you were, @ghaati , force storages for Tuluki nobles screwing commoners was definitely a Thing before Samos.
edited to add:
but the storing of noble characters for screwing commoners in Tuluk was the FIRST consistent time I remember of characters being force stored for doing X or Y, except maybe rape - can't recall when that was officially against the rules.
that would have been whenever Tuluk was rebuilt... umm, 2004? lots of brain cells ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:51:28 GMT -5
Because Qoriya wasnt powerful at all. Truth is, before Qoriya, there was Serilla (sp?) who was pretty similar in a lot of avenues. She was all scanning, sometimes boring, she was involved in a lot of things, but very lightly. The whole of Lirathan Templar concepts are like that. There are exceptions of course, but those exceptions were played by superbly excellent players. Though in retrospect ... even they had that whole 'see all, know all, tap all' thing going.
At the end of Qoriya's existance, she was walking around with 40-60 max hp and stun? Literally, a 5 day assassin with 5 offense and 90 backstab could've killed her. Samos was ... a little different.
Generally speaking. An elementalist turning full elemental always ment storage. It wasnt a 'force storage'. The player was told that if he were to turn into a full elemental, he would be stored. It was up to the player to choose to persue this, or not. He would "wyn" Armageddon and the story of his character would come to an end, as he would leave the Plane of Life. That's why 'half-elementals' became introduced during the end of the world plots. So mages could have progression in power, prior to hitting the point of needing to be stored.
I dont quiet understand some concepts of why people get force stored during nyr days. Seems completely arbitrary. But the elemental thing is definitely not a force storage kinda thing. Though admittedly, if a character is clearly acting out a very high element attunement, it is only natural for an ST to ... open tempting paths towards elementalism. And it is up to the character to succumb to the power/changes of mentality/changes of state and follow those paths into the full elementalism. It's partly why Allanak monitors the gemmed dealings with the elementals so much. Allanak does not want the elementalists to ascend.
A junior Noble turning into a Senior Noble also means storage. It's basically how a noble "wins" Armageddon. It's their end goal. They get so powerful, STs are unable to properly animate the gameworld to demonstrate that power compellingly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 18:07:17 GMT -5
Qwerty, thanks for the informative and contributive reply. That clears things up some.
I may be wrong, but I have this story in the back of my head of someone being forced to become an elemental, and then immediately stored... like, it was out of their hands.
Maybe that was a single incident, maybe it was a lie, or maybe it was more complicated than that. At any rate, I'm not sure if really understand the distinction between Q and Samos. I mean, I understand what you are getting at... but I'm still not sure if what you've written is enough to make it seem fair to me. at the end of the day, i suppose, being a sponsored character, there doesn't need to even BE a reason to store a templar... but no one likes putting in a lot of work into a char only to have it poofed away.
I would be curious to know whether or not it was merely because Samos was too powerful. To know the truth and judge the process of what happened fairly, I guess you would have to read the IDB threads.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 20:18:22 GMT -5
I dont know? I mean turning into an elemental is rarely an instant thing. You cant just walk around and suddenly, boom your whole body is made out of fire, "mantis head". Generally. Without taking the whole Nyr nonsense into account. The less out of whack imm granted powers/custom echoes/custom detect magick only seen mdescs, the less likely are you to be stored.
But if you're suddenly this weird being, with a fuck load of spells outside of your own element, custom casting echoes and mdesc, skills outside of your guild and race, stats, hp, reaches. At one point there was this whole end of the world plots. It was very common for interesting characters to gain all sorts of abilities, wands, powers, etc. Because fuck balance and viability, the whole game is ending. Fuck the glass ceiling, bend a little bit of realism for a shit fuck lot of fireworks and interesting plots. I loved those days. But then ... the world didnt end. Echri fucked off. Yet you've got a whole bunch of supermen. Freaking high off/def warrior with unlimited mana, sorc spells, psi skills and political power that's trumped only by black robes and other near-mythical beings that are near never seen in usual commoner lifetime. Plus an entire GDB crying about oversaturation of magickal plots and a whole movement of people giving up karma to encourage mundane rp.
Admittedly for awhile there was a bunch of plots to get them to kill each other. Overall, if you are closer and closer and closer to becoming an elemental, one day ... you're gonna become one. The process will probably take you over a good RL year, and if afterwards you're all "Oh shit. I didnt expect that would happen" well ... I dont really know what to say.
Though admittedly, I dont know the specifics of what you're talking about. Force storages have became a lot less understandable the last 7 years, or whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 20:33:21 GMT -5
Here's another thing, too.
The poster who threw the sex acts with minors shit in my face, think about this:
I was very mentally unwell at the time, in between jobs and in a new place to live, burning through what little savings that I had to pay 1k a month rent for a condo whose lease wasn't even in my name, just because it was ski season and it was the only place I had to go. Surrounded by rich people that I had absolutely NOTHING in common with, and trying desperately to figure out how to make the transition from living two years like a fucking beast in the mountains... To something, anything, resembling a thing CLOSE to normal life. And it was not easy.
I am not throwing a pity party, but just trying to express my mindset during that time. I was frustrated, angry, and had almost literally nothing except a bunch of books and marijuana growing equipment. It is hard to be objective or reasonable when you are grasping at straws in an attempt to re-integrate with normal society.
Couple that with the fact that I had recently been banned from the GDB over a fucking ridiculous argument with Nyr's rude ass, and you get some idea of the mindset I was in when making a post like that.
It was ugly. I wish I could take it back. But as wrong as it may have been to at least one other person, I wanted to show that the culture of enforcement that came along with Nyr, was maybe focusing on some of the wrong things.
Again, I was unwell, and I am still unwell, though not hurting nearly as bad as I was then. I am just trying to express the mindset that such a post was born from.
I don't think Arm is a haven for pedos. I do think we should be mindful of minors in the game. We should also be mindful of being heavy handed with enforcing minor bullshit that doesn't even matter... while allowing some of the bigger problems to go unattended.
If I could take any post I've ever made on the internet outside of Facebook back, there are two in the entirety of the Internet, and that is one of them, with the other being unrelated to ArmageddonMUD. I do not so much regret broaching the subject as much as I do broaching it the WAY I did, as well as my replies to some of the reactions.
It needed to be said, but it could have been said better. I readily admit that. Throw rocks if you want; if that's the worst mistake I've made all year or even the worst thing I've written all year, I would be in fine fucking shape.
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