delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 113
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Post by delirium on Nov 18, 2023 11:31:54 GMT -5
To me, Armageddon is more equivalent to a toxic relationship.
Blame shifting, poor communication, drama bombs, no follow-through on real change, etcetera etfuckingcetera.
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ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 137
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Post by ask on Nov 18, 2023 12:29:13 GMT -5
I made this account to address this thread specifically. I joined a religious organization once that was very cult-like. It wasn't as bad as some others like Scientology but it was on lists sometimes of "cults". They were manipulative and all that, but I left after a few years. I can say from my experience Arma is nothing like a cult. The comparison is very silly and sounds like someone who is just trying to force the word cult on the game because they hate it. Taking a random quote from a random Arma player to then point at a criteria and say See! isn't the least bit compelling. Charismatic Leader is one criteria and I think we can all agree Arma doesn't have charismatic staff. Another is Consequences of Leaving. There are none on Arma. In a real cult people make it their whole identity and they are convinced that if they leave the group they lose everything. Some even are convinced they go to hell. Arma has nothing like that going on. Sorry, Bebop, but you're not doing anyone any favors with a comparison like this. And you're wrong. i don't think anyone genuinely believes that armageddon is a cult just like the moonies or heavens gate. shalooonsh was charismatic, and well-received by the community. he had many admirers for whatever reason and had to be ultimately ran off after years of complaints hitting a critical mass. people spend tens of hours a week, on top of jobs and other responsibilities that they neglected, to play arm. they were sucked into it and def made it an identity, especially when you consider that they spent decades doing this. shalooonsh tatted himself up with random arm shit. i've ran these shit boards for ten years now and seen a whole lot of craziness in the community. i've watched players shit talk it on the GDB while actively posting here because they were scared of the consequences of being seen as a dissenter. i've watched grown adults punish players and try to exert control over them, including bringing their spouses into the matter, because they posted details about twenty-year old skills on these boards. qwerty/Obutus, staff member, spent years on these boards and reddit trying to run misinformation campaigns and sow dissent on a frequent basis. nergal was harassed in real life after leaving staff. i've seen players leave arm in serious upset panics, only to return later and keep going through that cycle of going back to the abuse. staff attempted to track and analyze posters here via covert tracking pixels. it's been an interesting study in human behavior when you consider how low and meaningless the stakes are --- a text-based game built in 1993 by a thirteen year old child. calling it a cult, and cult-like behavior, is pretty apt. Looonsh also DID have some weird cult of women following him around in college, too, afaik.  |
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eugene
Clueless newb
Posts: 114 
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Post by eugene on Nov 23, 2023 15:12:07 GMT -5
This thread was a rollercoaster.
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Post by terminal on Nov 25, 2023 20:48:27 GMT -5
To me, Armageddon is more equivalent to a toxic relationship. Blame shifting, poor communication, drama bombs, no follow-through on real change, etcetera etfuckingcetera. A toxic relationship requires more than one party to function. Stop doing this shit and leave.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Nov 26, 2023 9:02:43 GMT -5
People have already left the game over the toxic relationship it presents. No need to shift responsibility to the abused to leave games when they're already leaving. It doesn't change the fact that Arm is abusive to everyone that sticks with it long enough.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Nov 26, 2023 17:22:58 GMT -5
I would like to note that I have been away a long time. Look how long it's been! In my travels away from Armageddon to Haven and Shadows of Isildur and MUSHes and MUX and even to FiveM GTAV RP. I can safely attest that the majority of RP communities if not self corrected by sane people end up like Armageddon. You have to understand the concept that people in power within narrative games literally TELL THE STORY they want to happen. When you pair that with lack of accountability and even an average amount of ego you end up with toxicity. Either you fall in line with their narrative both in game and out of game or you get run off for breaking their groupthink. Happens everywhere but damn is Armageddon a determinedly old example of it.
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Post by terminal on Nov 27, 2023 13:51:06 GMT -5
Suggesting that people have left the game when it still occupies such a space in their lives that they post here on the regular is dishonest. Armageddon resembles a cult in the sense that people can't fuck off and stop talking about it. Like being a vegan, or a veteran.
Okay, I can appreciate the trauma or victim blaming element of what I'm saying but I'm not convinced that it makes it any less true. Like anyone who has a toxic relationship in their lives it at some point needs to addressed by the person experiencing it, because at the end of the day all of the responsibility for their experience rests at their feet. Make an account on BetterHelp, talk to a therapist, they exist and they're legit and they would love to talk to you about your relationship to Armageddon. I've done it, and look at me now - three karma.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Nov 27, 2023 14:50:34 GMT -5
Posting here is worthwhile mainly for three reasons imo:
1) "Safe space" to vent without having to worry about hamfisted moderation or reprisal on your game account (for people still playing for whatever reason)
2) Place for former players to post their grievance in a way that won't get removed from the GDB or r/MUD, both of which actively remove Armageddon criticism to varying degrees
3) because this board occupies such a high position in search engine rankings. The growth in popularity of this board coincides with a sharp decrease in new accounts/week on the game. If anyone would check into that it would have been me. That means more testimonials here = less people being harmed by Arm. Which I think we can agree is a good thing.
And sure, therapy is good advice for those who need it & this board shouldn't replace therapy.
But insinuating that talk about the game being a bad thing in and of itself is just childish, and plays into the hands of Armers that call this place the shitboard while their own game figuratively circles the drain. This board has been a massive influence on the game and its community. I'd like to think a positive one.
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Post by picklehead on Nov 28, 2023 0:33:52 GMT -5
I would like to note that I have been away a long time. Look how long it's been! In my travels away from Armageddon to Haven and Shadows of Isildur and MUSHes and MUX and even to FiveM GTAV RP. I can safely attest that the majority of RP communities if not self corrected by sane people end up like Armageddon. You have to understand the concept that people in power within narrative games literally TELL THE STORY they want to happen. When you pair that with lack of accountability and even an average amount of ego you end up with toxicity. Either you fall in line with their narrative both in game and out of game or you get run off for breaking their groupthink. Happens everywhere but damn is Armageddon a determinedly old example of it. The obvious solution would be an enforced mandate amongst staff to help tell the player's story and only deter it with justifiable, pre-existing rationales for resistance that make sense. It shouldn't take an act of god to setup a small hunting operation with a merchant hut to operate out of. |
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Nov 28, 2023 1:15:29 GMT -5
Also I posted here because Taven posted and I was hoping to reconnect. RP communities no matter how toxic are communities. Just because the game itself is bad doesn't mean we didn't make friends along the way. Really aren't they the whole point? <cue music> |
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Nov 30, 2023 19:50:31 GMT -5
Suggesting that people have left the game when it still occupies such a space in their lives that they post here on the regular is dishonest. Armageddon resembles a cult in the sense that people can't fuck off and stop talking about it. Like being a vegan, or a veteran. Yeah, people can't shut up about Armageddon on the Armageddon shadowboard. Give me a break. By the way, I heard that there's an AA meeting in the church basement at the end of the week, let's go break that one up too. |
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 1, 2023 7:37:15 GMT -5
The main community does have a deep-seated resentment of the shadowboard, obviously. But they hate community-building outside the game in general. They pay lip-service to the idea of players bringing their friends to the game, while at the same time suspecting groups of friends as cheating cliques. Several staff members have been shown to be distrustful of married couples playing the game, even punishing them collectively for the actions of one half of the couple. And god forbid you meet someone through the game and establish a relationship with them - some staff will get real jealous about that.
Of course it's not just Arm that finds the whole concept of community-building outside the game abhorrent. Sindome has a wild obsession with cracking down on players that dare to find each other outside of the game, arguably even worse than Arm does. Sometimes I think each of them uses the other for inspiration. The main theme between the two is an unwarranted desire to control their players' lives outside the game.
If only there was some sort of word used to describe groups that seek to control the lives of its members.
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delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 113
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Post by delirium on Dec 5, 2023 0:47:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I participated in that toxic relationship for 20+ years. Chasing the highs long after they were gone. Trying to make it work. I won't rehash all the utter garbage that made me quit, but fuck yes I'm occasionally going to give in to the urge to bitch about it (and the foolishness of putting up with what I put up with for as long as I did, too). If they're trying to fix themselves, great. But it's not my responsibility to stick around and see them through it. I've done more than enough.
I do think fondly of the good times and stories I collaborated on, and I cherish the few close friends (and a husband!) I met through the community. I don't regret all of it. I do regret how I handled some things, I despise the trend of how I was treated, and I loathe that I didn't stand up for myself sooner. I would feel irresponsible ever recommending the game to anyone, but I also don't harbor grudges against anyone who plays. I think it's a bad idea, but it's their life.
All that is to say, friend, I'll kvetch if I gat dang well want to.
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Post by eukelade on Dec 22, 2023 15:31:27 GMT -5
i forgot about this until mehtastic mentioned it. so some player was also a staff or builder or something on sindome I think. or maybe it was SoI, irrelevant either way. he created some sort of portal gun and was able to authorize himself to a higher privilege level and do some things that were ultimately disruptive and destructive to the game. nyr banned him from arm over it, and removed links to his third party tools that he had created for arm. he flipped out and handwrote an apology letter in his own blood. picture a sheet of paper, a page-long apology, except it's written in blood. he posted it on the gdb, then nyr removed it. the SCREAM I SCREAMED wow lol just wow hahaha thank you for that storytime |
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