As an outsider, my observation is that the whole sexual harassment scandal is what did in Armageddon, not its players. Admittedly, Armageddon players are assholes, but that's a very different thing than game leads who actively defend a sex pest. It turns out, when you do that, people don't want to play your game.
the thing that strikes a nerve with me is your continual and extreme contribution to the negativity of the community, which is ultimately what ruined the game. not yours alone, but yours and mine and many other's. you stand out because you're far more vocal and seem to be completely oblivious to your role in it.
Shadowspeak: We've got secrets that the STAFF don't want YOU to KNOW about! The original Armageddon discord. discord.gg/0ko5iyM1TG49N45t
Arm was dying long before the Shalooonsh scandal came to the fore, but that pushed it over the edge. For years, the game had been circling the drain due to severe underpopulation and stagnant storytelling. Staff's neglect and absenteeism had caused a steady decline in numbers as well as a lack of interest in doing anything interesting for the players who remained.
If anything, I think opening Tuluk again in 2019 (wasn't it?) was what really pushed Arm into the territory of non-viability as a game. People had been asking for Tuluk's return in previous years, but it fell on deaf ears; and then once the population was down to like 180, they finally chose to reopen it when it was no longer sustainable. Not only were there no longer enough players to support two main cities, but staff also promptly left Tuluk adrift and gave it a terrible start. Within a year or two, Arm was down to 150ish players.
Then the Shalooonsh debacle came and pushed the game over the edge. I don't think it had that big of an effect on numbers, probably no more than 10-20ish regular players actually quit, but Arm didn't have much to give at that point. It was enough to make it clear that the game just wasn't functioning anymore.
Last Edit: Apr 24, 2024 11:23:13 GMT -5 by uncoolio
Arm was dying long before the Shalooonsh scandal came to the fore, but that pushed it over the edge. For years, the game had been circling the drain due to severe underpopulation and stagnant storytelling. Staff's neglect and absenteeism had caused a steady decline in numbers as well as a lack of interest in doing anything interesting for the players who remained.
If anything, I think opening Tuluk again in 2019 (wasn't it?) was what really pushed Arm into the territory of non-viability as a game. People had been asking for Tuluk's return in previous years, but it fell on deaf ears; and then once the population was down to like 180, they finally chose to reopen it when it was no longer sustainable. Not only were there no longer enough players to support two main cities, but staff also promptly left Tuluk adrift and gave it a terrible start. Within a year or two, Arm was down to 150ish players.
Then the Shalooonsh debacle came and pushed the game over the edge. I don't think it had that big of an effect on numbers, probably no more than 10-20ish regular players actually quit, but Arm didn't have much to give at that point. It was enough to make it clear that the game just wasn't functioning anymore.
Given how many people returned in the year or so since the Shalooonsh incident, most of them jonesing for a hit of Arm now that it's gone away temporarily, the number of players that quit over Shalooonsh is probably closer to 10. I bring it up as a killing blow of sorts, since the initial sudden drop in players combined with the very slow recovery led to the consideration of Seasons as an idea. And while that can go well, it probably won't due to the storytelling issues you mentioned. I'll also throw in karma continuing to be a thing and dividing the players up into 11 tiers for no good reason as something of a sword of Damocles hanging over the game and its community once people get a taste of how high-karma players actually... play.
"Pride will be your destruction." - Valasurus
"You are being an asshole in a very intentional way" - Dar / qwerty / armqwertytwo / /u/ForearmedLurker / Smashed / SmashedTregil / Obtutus / forearmedlurker
"Yeah, uh, big fat lies all around 100% most definitely, big fat lying wow." - Doublepalli denying OOC collusion 3 weeks before being banned for OOC collusion
It’s not going to “die” in the sense of some scandal like Shaloonsh. There will always be die hards that will play no matter what happens and the morbidly curious that will roll up a character just to see what is going on.
What will happen when there are only diehards left. Someone will just quietly pull the plug. This board will blow up with people trying to figure out what happened. Long time armers will show up to share war stories and dirty little secrets that we were unaware of, there will be a post-Mortem here for a little while and that will be that.
That is how the game will die.
I feel like it’s dangerously close to that point right now. If they don’t pull off this reboot, it’ll speed things up a little. Just don’t expect it to happen in the next few years.
Yes, and with the game being reduced to what it is now, the threshold for what is considered a disaster is a lot lower. For example, 4 staff members retire within six months of the game reopening (not all that unlikely considering the history of staff) that is suddenly a huge burden to the rest of the staff team that now has to take on additional work and leech more players from the playerbase. Storytelling grinds to a near-halt.
Also, the Season model has a lot of self-reflection time built into it, as the game will be down between chapters as well as between seasons, which I think is good from a mental health perspective but absolutely terrible for the health of a game that basically needs people to be addicted to it in order to keep going. If I was a player stuck in-place on the karma ladder, not getting sponsored roles I want, not getting special apps I want, I'd probably go to a game that lets me play what I want when Arm is down, and if I have enough fun in the new game, what incentive do I have to look back?
"Pride will be your destruction." - Valasurus
"You are being an asshole in a very intentional way" - Dar / qwerty / armqwertytwo / /u/ForearmedLurker / Smashed / SmashedTregil / Obtutus / forearmedlurker
"Yeah, uh, big fat lies all around 100% most definitely, big fat lying wow." - Doublepalli denying OOC collusion 3 weeks before being banned for OOC collusion
it's not the same argument, because staff's arguments are followed by actions to discriminate against you, vs here all speech is tolerated, and only responded by counter speech. Those who cannot understand the difference are called liberals.
Oh go fuck yourself.
How's that for counter speech, you miserable shit? "Liberals". Orange clown taint-licking wanker bitch.
Arguements absolutely for sure can result in discrimination from right-wing/conservative parties. Try living in rural Texas with a Biden bumper sticker and a Hillary 4 President yard sign, and you'll get discriminated against plenty.
It aint a quality of left vs right. It can be quality of asshole vs. non-asshole. (I'm in the asshole camp, btw)
But also, free speech doesn't mean speech free of consequences.
You're still coming to the board to whine about the board. If I struck a nerve with something as mild as "you should walk away from something you're bothered about", because it triggered your memories of staff telling you something similar, that's your problem and not mine.
the thing that strikes a nerve with me is your continual and extreme contribution to the negativity of the community, which is ultimately what ruined the game. not yours alone, but yours and mine and many other's. you stand out because you're far more vocal and seem to be completely oblivious to your role in it.
he posts his hot takes on a board with no affiliation whatsoever to arm.
there's nothing posted here any arm player ever needs to read or see unless they deliberately go and seek it out.
blaming his posting for having an impact on your enjoyment is misdirected.
Mehtastic is a little more pessimistic than needs be, and there are times when I find that he sees ill-intent in things that can better be referred to Hanlon's Razor; but I certainly understand the impulse, because more often than not, the myriad grievances that people have had with Arm over the years have been shown to stem from unforced errors or outright malice by staff. Not always, though--and I do feel that our Mehtastic does always detect malice. At the end of the day, it's a natural product of a game where malice or needless incompetence has been the answer often enough to where one can't be faulted for suspecting it every time. If the last ten fires were arson, maybe the eleventh isn't, but it makes sense to assume it was.
it's not the same argument, because staff's arguments are followed by actions to discriminate against you, vs here all speech is tolerated, and only responded by counter speech. Those who cannot understand the difference are called liberals.
Oh go fuck yourself.
How's that for counter speech, you miserable shit? "Liberals". Orange clown taint-licking wanker bitch.
Arguements absolutely for sure can result in discrimination from right-wing/conservative parties. Try living in rural Texas with a Biden bumper sticker and a Hillary 4 President yard sign, and you'll get discriminated against plenty.
It aint a quality of left vs right. It can be quality of asshole vs. non-asshole. (I'm in the asshole camp, btw)
But also, free speech doesn't mean speech free of consequences.
Bro
It's a dumb forum where people bitch about a dumb game
Mehtastic is a little more pessimistic than needs be, and there are times when I find that he sees ill-intent in things that can better be referred to Hanlon's Razor; but I certainly understand the impulse, because more often than not, the myriad grievances that people have had with Arm over the years have been shown to stem from unforced errors or outright malice by staff. Not always, though--and I do feel that our Mehtastic does always detect malice. At the end of the day, it's a natural product of a game where malice or needless incompetence has been the answer often enough to where one can't be faulted for suspecting it every time. If the last ten fires were arson, maybe the eleventh isn't, but it makes sense to assume it was.
I agree with that assessment of myself. For what it's worth I find it very hard to not detect malice when the game's solution to sexual harassment is for the leadership to play musical chairs while trying to cover it up. I am far more patient towards new storytellers and the like (I think my post history reflects that) - the worst I can say about them is that I hope they know the difference between being passionate about running a game, and being passionate about working for people that just aren't very good.
'll add furthermore that I just find critique of games and game design fun. I also find MU*s fun. So naturally I've come to find critique of elements of MU*s fun, and what makes or breaks MU*s is largely their community and their management. If that's not someone's cup of tea, I just assume they know how to close browser tabs.
And last but not least: I find it very very funny that this board is usually the 2nd or 3rd search result in search engines for "armageddon mud". I'm allowed to be a little petty.
"Pride will be your destruction." - Valasurus
"You are being an asshole in a very intentional way" - Dar / qwerty / armqwertytwo / /u/ForearmedLurker / Smashed / SmashedTregil / Obtutus / forearmedlurker
"Yeah, uh, big fat lies all around 100% most definitely, big fat lying wow." - Doublepalli denying OOC collusion 3 weeks before being banned for OOC collusion
The general sentiment I detect from the community is that most have been eager to apply for karma reviews, but there are still some holdouts that have publicly stated on Discord that they're just not interested in "begging" for karma. I find this sentiment interesting because it reflects the fact that the staff have a lot of work to do to undo the mistakes of the past. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it likely? I don't think so. The tendency of staff to be hotheads far outweighs their current effort to improve the internal staff culture, and it's going to be "interesting" when inevitably one person out of the ~15-person team has a bad day and we get to see how that actually gets handled.
But the fact remains that karma is still being handed out like candy. 40 reviews have been resolved so far, and it's still following the general trend I posted about the other day of people getting 3-5 additional karma. The staff primarily seem to be taking people at their word as long as they can make a half-decent argument for a karma point. I've read some of the requests and they read to me like a resume. If you're a person who sincerely insists on playing this game despite all warnings about why that's a terrible idea, there is no practical reason not to put in a karma review. Just try not to play your shiny new character like an asshole.
"Pride will be your destruction." - Valasurus
"You are being an asshole in a very intentional way" - Dar / qwerty / armqwertytwo / /u/ForearmedLurker / Smashed / SmashedTregil / Obtutus / forearmedlurker
"Yeah, uh, big fat lies all around 100% most definitely, big fat lying wow." - Doublepalli denying OOC collusion 3 weeks before being banned for OOC collusion
The elephant in the room is: If the game is supposed to be making an effort to improve, why expand karma requirements?
Karma has been a thing people have been complaining about for years. Instead of collapsing the ladder, you’re making it longer? Why not go from 8 to 3?
Can you write a complete sentence consistently? 1 karma
Do you consistently roleplay hating magic for some reason, even though there’s a quarter in the city where magic users live and practice magic daily and probably play a large role in keeping the city running in some way? 1 point
Can you play with other people? 1 point
Congratulations you can play any class you want. You’re not an idiot who will fuck up the game. If you do, we’ll restrict you from playing something too powerful for a while. Three point karma system. It only took me 5 minutes to come up with.
Prime Minister Sinister: if we all do enough pushups to get enough pushup energy out into the world
Jun 28, 2024 8:18:19 GMT -5
jenki: Understanding the subtle differences between subjective truth and objective truth is confusing, please explain
Sept 4, 2024 14:57:13 GMT -5
adhdai: "All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players. They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts."
Sept 4, 2024 15:30:45 GMT -5
uncoolio: It is a silly place.
Oct 23, 2024 16:40:36 GMT -5
jenki: Staff: Thanks to all the players for all the intellectual property that you generously donated to the game and will never get back. We're closing the game and taking it with us. So long Suckers!
Oct 29, 2024 17:48:17 GMT -5
gogogadget: Was there a code leak or something? Anyone have it? I have no intention of running it I just want the emote/pemote commands and command emotes code...
Oct 29, 2024 18:31:28 GMT -5
pinkerdlu: I believe that you're capable of building something better. Preferably without a character limit.
Oct 30, 2024 1:00:33 GMT -5
Feoramund: I've written emote command code. It's meaningless without all the other code: parsing, object reference, object qualities, vision checking, echoing, and so on. Write your own; it'll be tailored to your own system and a far better fit.
Oct 30, 2024 16:44:02 GMT -5
ask: FutureMUD is legit ready to run out of the box. Building is easy in it. Lots of AI integration.
Nov 10, 2024 15:49:12 GMT -5
