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Post by jcarter on Mar 31, 2023 19:57:02 GMT -5
where’s the acknowledgment of the irony of shutting down a conversation an hour or so after the post quipping about ath doing the same. it just stands out to me that quite a few of you act in the exact same ways as the people you’re railing against. where is a moderator locking threads here to shut down conversation?
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,036
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Post by punished ppurg on Mar 31, 2023 20:05:47 GMT -5
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Post by blahblahblah on Mar 31, 2023 20:07:36 GMT -5
Mhmm.
Now, note that this person side-steps when they are being cornered conversationally? I'll go ahead and paste the relevant bit of my reply they are referring to:
A lot of people ascribe to the "cast not the first stone" method of shutting down a conversation. Funny thing, the text that refers to is about a woman being accused of a crime, and people jumping on it with no reason to even be there, to carry out "justice". When the crawd melted away, HER ACCUSERS WERE NOT PRESENT. It was an unfair trial with no one that had an issue having the guts to stand for the execution of "justice", they just whipped up a mob.
That is not what's happened here. People that are making complaints and accusations are standing RIGHT here. The people being accused can't bring themselves to properly apologize. The "unharmed" parties that should probably just sit back and observe are the people that don't have these issues, rather than randomly jumping to someone's defense when they have no right to judge OR execute. So I sorta ask, what's the point of digging through the search history to find something one doesn't like, then making it a "whataboutism"?
It's another pattern they use in their arguments. Focusing on the bit that will possibly cause the other person to feel they need to defend what they are saying. Now, they can pretend to have amnesia, that's fine. I don't give a crap. This is what actual gaslighting is (turning down the light and then lying about it to get the other party to question themselves) - attempting to get a person to doubt their own reality. The thread is on the official forums (or maybe not, as they may be archived), and they are welcome to refresh their memory. Anything relevant said to this person, in a discussion that they feel that they are losing, will just get another dodge and sidestep. It's an attempt to make the other party seem "emotional" or crazy, and simply derails productive discussion.
Let's say, for a moment, this person literally has NO idea what I'm talking about. Why, they could continue their prior assertions. I'm the one he focused on, and he didn't elaborate because he wants to get a bead on me.
All that to say. Again. Fuck you. <3
I'll go ahead and stop derailing.
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metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Mar 31, 2023 20:45:23 GMT -5
I think you're overestimating my memory. You're alluding to some vague "shitshow" on the forums. Which one? There were a few years there where I was drug addled and out of touch with reality or good sense. I don't keep that a secret. Is it from then? Or is this some other thing?
EDIT: Either way: What I'm trying to do here, I suppose, is to get a lot of you to self-reflect. I did that through accusing you of excusing homophobia. That wasn't a good way to go about it. I care about the Armageddon community. I understand a lot of you are very upset about staff, and still are. They're doing work now, but there's still a lot of work to be done. I also understand you want to vent about your frustrations without being moderated, which is difficult to do on the boards. We were talking today in the discord about how the staff tend to be too hamhanded and ironfisted about enforcement. I personally don't think this forum with almost no moderation whatsoever is a good answer to that.
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bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
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Post by bebop on Mar 31, 2023 20:58:19 GMT -5
I think you're overestimating my memory. You're alluding to some vague "shitshow" on the forums. Which one? There were a few years there where I was drug addled and out of touch with reality or good sense. I don't keep that a secret. Is it from then? Or is this some other thing?
EDIT: Either way: What I'm trying to do here, I suppose, is to get a lot of you to self-reflect. I did that through accusing you of excusing homophobia. That wasn't a good way to go about it. I care about the Armageddon community. I understand a lot of you are very upset about staff, and still are. They're doing work now, but there's still a lot of work to be done. I also understand you want to vent about your frustrations without being moderated, which is difficult to do on the boards. We were talking today in the discord about how the staff tend to be too hamhanded and ironfisted about enforcement. I personally don't think this forum with almost no moderation whatsoever is a good answer to that.
No one cares if you think this forum is a good answer. Go home.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,656
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Post by delerak on Mar 31, 2023 20:59:21 GMT -5
Is this a therapy session or some shit?
The biggest difference about here and the gdb is that you have almost zero censorship. Jcarter is very open to letting people say what they want which is how it should be. Someone trolling or insulting you? Block them. I've done it to a few posters here. When you have less censorship than you can find the truth. If you can't understand that perhaps you should go back to the gdb? I don't really care one way or another just trying to make your stay here a bit less harsh than it needs to be, because most people here are going to tell you to fuck off with that self-reflection nonsense.
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metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Mar 31, 2023 21:12:27 GMT -5
I don't think self-reflection is nonsense, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with what you've said about most people here being more interested in telling me to fuck off when I suggest it.
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baobob
Clueless newb
Posts: 100
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Post by baobob on Mar 31, 2023 22:55:42 GMT -5
Here is how I saw it.
You walked into a public library, squatted down and squeezed out a big smelly loaf on the hardwood floor. Then you started shouting something how about everyone in there was a racist homophobic asshole or something.
When people pelted you with books and deserved insults, you are now telling us... um... "it was meant to be performance art"? A mirror up to the soul or some shit.
Snort taint, insufferable jackass. And clean up the floor.
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bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
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Post by bebop on Mar 31, 2023 22:58:58 GMT -5
I don't think self-reflection is nonsense, but I think you've hit the nail on the head with what you've said about most people here being more interested in telling me to fuck off when I suggest it. To be a little more diplomatic than the above poster - The keyword in self-reflection is self. Meaning it's between you and yourself. People don't react well to being told in an overly generalized manner what they should be doing with themselves. You're taking what should be super intimate advice only given to a receptive recipient and trying to apply it broadly and impersonally to a bunch of strangers. Not only is your approach ineffective it's pretentious and rude. It isn't about people being interested in telling you to fuck off, nor is it that people are averse to self-reflection, it's that you deserve to be told to fuck off in this context.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 1, 2023 3:12:03 GMT -5
There were a few years there where I was drug addled and out of touch with reality or good sense.
You sure that was in the past and not now? I still don't even fully understand what your issue is. Everyone is shouting "fuck you" to you and what you're really offended by is that an unspecified poster used the word fag on here in 2016? I'm guessing you're not from the generation who learned the mantra, "sticks and stones can break my bones but names can never hurt me". Instead you've been indoctrinated to believe that words are a form of violence. That must be such a difficult way to view the world.
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Post by terminal on Apr 1, 2023 3:56:36 GMT -5
where’s the acknowledgment of the irony of shutting down a conversation an hour or so after the post quipping about ath doing the same. it just stands out to me that quite a few of you act in the exact same ways as the people you’re railing against. where is a moderator locking threads here to shut down conversation? there isn’t. i was talking about shit like gaslighting, name calling, and deflection to stop a conversation from taking place.
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Post by terminal on Apr 1, 2023 4:11:07 GMT -5
i have no idea what that means but i don’t think it addresses the fact that you deflected metek’s valid concerns. just fucking cop to it. there are shitty people amongst this community. someone posted a heil hitler jpeg a day or so ago and nobody bat an eye. baobab casually sucking his teeth over whether preemptively banning nazis is justified. this place is easily as fucked as the gdb because it’s composed of the exact same people and nobody wants to acknowledge it. I am okay being called one of the shittiest persons alive by you, but I am not okay with you putting words in my mouth. Please read my post and the one before it by me. Then come back and justify why anything I said equates to any of metek's accusations. You are usually pretty rational. This feels oddly personal, since no one is else's name was cited. Now I am interested why. “Ah. Not sure I agree with pre-emptive bans on potential suspected future griefers, but thanks for the insight!” that’s what i was responding to and what you quoted above was my interpretation of that. it wasn’t personal as much as it was something that had taken note of earlier. i was in a mood yesterday and i’m often bothered by people like mehtastic here, i just usually don’t comment on it because it’s pointless. same with the gdb.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,347
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 1, 2023 5:07:42 GMT -5
I tolerate bullshit very poorly, terminal. Sometimes that leads me to name-calling, but I do not gaslight people or deflect from actual problems.
Your problem is you can't explain yourself. You blame me for your mood, but you're the one who saw Jesse Pinkman say "Heil Hitler bitch" in an image that was clearly a meme and thought it was the spooky shadowboard's version of Mein Kampf. The reason why your commentary is pointless is because it's misinformed by your complete inability or lack of willingness to read context. You effectively embarrass yourself because it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.
The Armageddon community's common line about this forum is that it is full of hateful people who are trying to destroy the game. Most people here are actually just here to talk about how their old hobby could have done better and why it's dying. I read baobab's quote on "pre-emptive bans on suspected future griefers" as just that, because I don't assume people are saying anything beyond what their words actually say. I disagree with baobab, because I don't actually care how most RPIs run their games as long as they're doing their best to keep their community safe. If I were to ever try to log into an RPI and see a message like "You are banned because you're banned from Armageddon", I would shrug my shoulders and assume that RPI doesn't need my +1 to their player count at a time where... all RPIs kind of need that +1.
However, I think baobab and I and many others here would agree that leaving Brokkr partially in charge, when he played an active role in helping Shalooonsh actually harass multiple players, is the opposite of "keeping their community safe". It seems to be setting up the community for Brokkr to predate on the community and pick up where Shalooonsh left off once the heat dies down. This isn't "dictated by Shabago" because Shabago also has a history of harassing women, like using an NPC to impose sex on Lyris Dasari. It's not "dictated by Shalooonsh" because Shalooonsh has a history of all sorts of shitty behavior. So when you throw around lines like that, I get the sense that you are trying to deflect my concerns as somehow not genuine.
Learn to read contextually and you will do well in life.
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jenki
Clueless newb
Posts: 139
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Post by jenki on Apr 1, 2023 9:35:12 GMT -5
For all the claims that this board's objective is to destroy ArmageddoMUD, the irony is that this board has been the catalyst for more game changes than any other source.
(Replaced improvements.with.changes because it's debatable if they have been for the good)
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,347
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 1, 2023 11:25:25 GMT -5
True. I would say it's hard to argue that changes that sprouted ideas from here have been for the best. But even so, it's not the fault of the ideas, but rather the people who implement them. There have been genuinely good ideas from here, as well as r/MUD and the GDB, that staff water down to the point of ineffectiveness. Of course, there are ideas from all these sources that they just disregard entirely, but I'll bring up a few examples of changes that have been proposed, watered down, and implemented in recent memory. #1: Make Armageddon a 18+ game. This idea came about several years ago, when Reddit reviews were talking about how many Armageddon players would make 13-year-old characters to do ERP with. The Armageddon players' claim at the time was "13 year olds are adults on Armageddon", which of course, made them look like pedophiles to the wider MUD community. So staff stepped in and raised the minimum character age to... 16. What happened after that? Players playing characters that are 16 years old but act like 6 year olds who are also horny for some reason. Again, Armageddon looked like a dumpster fire for some more years. Now the game has a CYA message that says you need to be 18+, something most people learned to say "Yes" to when they had unsupervised access to the internet during puberty. #2: Get rid of Shalooonsh. Shalooonsh's behavior has been Armageddon's worst kept secret for decades. When the staff finally realized it was time for him to go, they still refused to announce his complete ban from the game for another month. In that time between the initial uproar and the most recent announcement of his banning, staff tried to claim he resigned voluntarily. They remained mum on the matter of his banning while people left the game, not caring to hear staff's excuses, whatever they may end up being. So staff literally did the right thing, but if they had done it in a significantly shorter timeframe their effort would have actually succeeded. #3: Allow the community to self-moderate. Player moderators were a thing, then they weren't, and now they are again. Their leader is Ath, a staff member. It would be comical if it wasn't so obviously desperate. #4: Establish a player advocacy group that mediates between players and staff to try to reduce/resolve conflicts. No, you get the player committee instead. What do they do? Well, the staff tell the player committee when players are banned. They also get to look at staff responses to staff complaints before they're sent out. I am sure they will make great human shields advisors.
The implementation of changes to the game is arguably even sloppier, with special attention going to the combination of seemingly random clan openings plus the new brew/poison system. The clan openings encourage people to play in disconnected areas of the game world, then the brew/poison system punishes players for going into locations where there are venomous animals (snakes, desert elves, etc.). I am truly astounded sometimes at what passes for game design ideas in staffland.
Personally, it's tiring to watch.
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