metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Apr 4, 2023 0:43:38 GMT -5
My thoughts on this forum and censorship are this - -snip-- You make good points. I agree. I do still think there should be rules against hateful language -- whether it's homophobia or sexism. Allowing that sort of behavior in the spirit of open communication can galvanize bigots into being more and more hateful with their language.
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sawbot
staff puppet account
Posts: 31
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Post by sawbot on Apr 4, 2023 2:33:06 GMT -5
vote with your feet and play Apocalypse instead (unironically a better game with more players online and a smaller game world meaning you'll actually meet some of them)
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 4, 2023 5:04:53 GMT -5
My thoughts on this forum and censorship are this - -snip-- You make good points. I agree. I do still think there should be rules against hateful language -- whether it's homophobia or sexism. Allowing that sort of behavior in the spirit of open communication can galvanize bigots into being more and more hateful with their language. Just point it out next time you see it rather than making vague statements about someone who may have posted God knows what 5 years ago. No one's going to institute a bunch of new policy's for you here. Just call it out next time you see it or go elsewhere.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,347
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 4, 2023 5:25:32 GMT -5
My thoughts on this forum and censorship are this - -snip-- You make good points. I agree. I do still think there should be rules against hateful language -- whether it's homophobia or sexism. Allowing that sort of behavior in the spirit of open communication can galvanize bigots into being more and more hateful with their language. I'm pretty sure jcarter is already familiar with the "Nazi Bar Problem", considering he kicked out some guy shouting hateful language, but then he came back to call the board that multiple people brought sexual harassment allegations to "sexist"
Edit to add: I get that GDBers think that you can only achieve good behavior in discussion by setting a bunch of rules on how to behave, because that's how it works on the GDB where people genuinely do not know how to socialize. But it turns out that you can actually get civil and non-hateful discussion by just being relatively normal, and occasionally calling out other people for being dickheads when they actually turn out to be dickheads. Kind of like real life. Crazy, I know, but it's true
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Apr 4, 2023 6:05:50 GMT -5
Can I also add, it's weird how Westerners can be so fixated on sex and skin color. And nothing else. If it's offensive to what you do with your genitals it's pAtRiArcHaL hAtE sPeEcH. But I bet you wouldn't bat an eye if someone said brokkr is so blind to see what he's done to the game. I mean, it's true, he is blind to it. But why isn't that hate speech against blind people? Or if I said the player base is so balakanized now. Why no outrage for the Serbs and the Croats and others in the Balkan region? I bet I could sit here all day and find terms like this to get offended by. Sooner or later you've gotta just shove it and get on with your life. Not everything is hate speech.
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Post by jcarter on Apr 4, 2023 6:31:37 GMT -5
My thoughts on this forum and censorship are this - -snip-- You make good points. I agree. I do still think there should be rules against hateful language -- whether it's homophobia or sexism. Allowing that sort of behavior in the spirit of open communication can galvanize bigots into being more and more hateful with their language. this is what you were banned for, yet almost 10 years later you're complaining it was unfair.
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metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Apr 4, 2023 17:01:52 GMT -5
No, I'm not. And it's dishonest to characterize it that way. I've made it quite clear that I was trying to draw a parallel to the unmitigated homophobic language that I recall being in use at that time. It was a tasteless way to go about it but I was barely past being an adolescent.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,347
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 4, 2023 17:41:07 GMT -5
This conversation reminds me: one aspect of the game's community "moving forward" that seems to have been completely dropped is any notion of reconciliation with critics and former players. The whole "you have to ask us to be unbanned" prideful bit is one small part of this, but in general the attitudes towards former members is still very cultish. So much so that current members have to try to paint critics as homophobic and sexist when a significant portion of the critique of Shalooonsh was directed at his behavior toward women and non-heterosexual people. Kind of sad really.
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metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Apr 4, 2023 17:44:13 GMT -5
I've also made it very clear that I'm in support of Shaloonsh's banning.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,347
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 4, 2023 17:50:01 GMT -5
So did everyone else from the GDB, once it finally happened. The years and decades before that... not so much. Something about fairweather friends comes to mind. Or maybe rats and sinking ships.
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metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Apr 4, 2023 17:57:22 GMT -5
You're free to peruse my GDB post history and discord correspondence to see my interactions and opinions on staff's behavior.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,347
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Post by mehtastic on Apr 4, 2023 18:03:33 GMT -5
I'm familiar enough with your personal opinion on staff behavior to know that we generally agree on that front. Where we disagree is your characterization of this board as homophobic and sexist when it's pretty obvious that the GDB and Arm discord is actually demonstrably hostile to the groups you're attempting to speak up for, while this board actually has worked to defend those groups.
Hostility isn't measured in how many slurs inactive posters said 5 years ago, it is measured in how people treat other people currently. I figured you of all people would have figured that out by now, but maybe you have DesertT, wday, Dresan and other fine gentlemen blocked.
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metek
staff puppet account
Posts: 12
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Post by metek on Apr 4, 2023 18:05:44 GMT -5
I suppose I'm taking a page from Bebop's book when I let my eyes glaze over for boomer humor. I don't publicize who I have blocked because it seems needlessly incendiary but I understand your meaning.
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Post by Barsook on Apr 4, 2023 18:48:07 GMT -5
Hostility isn't measured in how many slurs inactive posters said 5 years ago, it is measured in how people treat other people currently. I figured you of all people would have figured that out by now, but maybe you have DesertT, wday, Dresan and other fine gentlemen blocked. And now this is giving reason to unplug from Arm (the Shadows do count) for good. It's all this toxic behavior towards groups of people that you don't understand and just not treating people the way that you want to be treated- one of the first and most basic lessons that is taught. You only gain respect through good positive behaviors. Take me for an example, I came on to here to apologize to Triste and others because I called them toxic due to not understanding what is really happening because it never happened to me. That gave me respect from jcarter himself.
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pinkerdlu
Shartist
The evil bad guy of a desert sex simulator. Real Necker
Posts: 521
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Post by pinkerdlu on Apr 5, 2023 0:16:25 GMT -5
Hostility isn't measured in how many slurs inactive posters said 5 years ago, it is measured in how people treat other people currently. I figured you of all people would have figured that out by now, but maybe you have DesertT, wday, Dresan and other fine gentlemen blocked. And now this is giving reason to unplug from Arm (the Shadows do count) for good. It's all this toxic behavior towards groups of people that you don't understand and just not treating people the way that you want to be treated- one of the first and most basic lessons that is taught. You only gain respect through good positive behaviors. Take me for an example, I came on to here to apologize to Triste and others because I called them toxic due to not understanding what is really happening because it never happened to me. That gave me respect from jcarter himself. That, my friend... is called the hero's journey. Now that you have earned the respect of jcarter himself, a.k.a. (The Meeting with the Goddess)... you must resist Temptations and confront yourself. (Seek Atonement and Apotheosis). Good luck. Oh... and stick to the Shadows. *raises hood and stalks off*
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