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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 28, 2023 12:28:12 GMT -5
So I think the first thing I'd bring up is: Labeling every time players have legitimate discussion and backlash to your bad behavior as 'trolling', 'bad-faith arguments', and more is more disingenuous than the actual people who do engage in shitty argumentation. I can't think of a single post and discussion on the GDB where the person shitposting was actually the one striving for change, or on 'their side'. Everytime someone comes in with a piece of shit argument that's disingenuous it's someone trying to delegitimize the issue and support staff. Staff keeps hiding behind this 'Don't bash staffers' mindset bullshit that becomes this 'gotcha!' moment for their moderation.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,656
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Post by delerak on Feb 28, 2023 12:35:05 GMT -5
No more staff avatars. Apologize to every player that was unknowingly (and knowingly in my case) killed by avatars for arbitrary and many times irrelevant reasons.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,333
Member is Online
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Post by mehtastic on Feb 28, 2023 12:43:05 GMT -5
- Ban Malifaxis and make it clear that Shalooonsh's departure from the staff team is no longer voluntary - Kick Shabago off the staff team completely for covering things up
- Stop using storytellers and admins as attack dogs that exist to shame the playerbase into stopping their complaining - Unban everyone banned from the GDB/Discord in the past week on flimsy grounds, especially Bebop - No more staff avatars, resource PCs, etc. - Write rules forbidding sexual harassment and a set of workplace-standard processes when it happens - Maybe when interviewing staff, instead of wasting time asking what candy bar they'd be, figure out what kind of communication skills they have. Those seem like a bare minimum. If staff can't meet those then the game should close.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,035
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Post by punished ppurg on Feb 28, 2023 12:58:59 GMT -5
This is half-baked. The staff team has already ruptured their trust in the community in their damage control patterns with these ludicrous bans. Is it important to rush to what the remaining people have to say, when everyone who's anyone that stood up against this bull was kicked out? I can't participate in the discussion. Many other Arm vets like myself who saw the cancer, can't participate in the discussion. Halaster is continuing to shroud himself in the idea that "these people want the game to die". Buddy, you're the one that almost pulled the trigger. I want the game to live and be successful; and the key difference here is, in order to do that, the game is going to need a radical cultural reset (away from the old boys' club) that You, Halaster, are incapable of performing in a vacuum.
We've seen the lengths that the club has gone to in order to cover up OOC sexual predation by staffers on the team, in high esteem. There's no shoving that genie back in the bottle.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2023 13:11:51 GMT -5
The stark contrast between this announcement and Halaster's tone after the fact is aggravating. This just happened about an hour later in a group DM. (Halaster = Mukutep)
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delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 90
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Post by delirium on Feb 28, 2023 13:13:26 GMT -5
I'm struggling to articulate how frustrating it is to watch them ALMOST get it... and then immediately 180 into the same old mindset that those who raise complaints are trying to destroy the game, rather than it being staff behavior and staff response to those complaints that is destroying the game. At this point, trust is ruptured almost irreparably, and they STILL don't seem to get why... which tells me that it's not going to be repaired. Many long-time veterans are never going to return as it is, because there's just too much baggage, but if they truly wanted to fix the game's reputation and rebuild going forward, they'd have to do what none of them seem willing to accept as necessary: own up, clean house, and act with empathy, emotional maturity, and accountability. And fire the fuck out of all the bad actors, even if that means having a skeleton staff for a while.
It is really fucking sad how unlikely it is that they're actually going to the hard but right thing. I get the emotional overwhelm and the discomfort and the desire to retreat into the comforting arms of the "it's okay, they're all jerks" arma-religion, but that doesn't excuse it.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,035
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Post by punished ppurg on Feb 28, 2023 13:17:39 GMT -5
"We had proper channels for this, we would have listened"
I know that we had Nergal as a noted liar back in the day. What should Halaster's moniker be? Deaf Halaster.
People tried to sound the alarm. Halaster turned a deaf ear for years. Now, at the sight of everything swept under the rug coming to the light, Halaster laments that he's not able to sweep anything away again.
I'm going to be completely and brutally honest. If the pain the staff team feels of excising Shalooonsh from the heart of Arm 2023 is enough to shut down the game, then kill it. Let it die. Shut the port, flush the host. Let this be the high mark that Halaster and the Arm staff team decided, "We cannot go on." It would be the most fitting summary of their leadership of the game.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 28, 2023 13:19:37 GMT -5
Lol Halasturd will never shut down the game and give up the only thing in his life he has some modicum of control over
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Post by actuallyender on Feb 28, 2023 13:22:29 GMT -5
Here's some receipts to prove that they DO NOT listen and we WERE ignored. When I brought up my concerns as a deal breaker for me, Shabago's response was to punish me and store both my character and Delirium's character. This was over six months ago. Earlier in the complaint I detailed out specific abuses both in game and out of game that he had engaged in, so if they're trying to act like this is all a surprise to them, IT IS NOT. They're only responding now because they were left with no choice after Bebop went public.
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Post by blahblahblah on Feb 28, 2023 13:22:29 GMT -5
I'm going to say...
If anyone decides to join the staff to try to help with this situation, best of luck to you and godspeed on your efforts.
HOWEVER, do NOT sign up for one of their gmail business email accounts without a good VPN. There is very little control over the accound settings, AND the "company" has full access to the email. This includes login information, which gives away your physical location. It seems to have changed, but it used to give the coordinates on google maps. This meant, that if someone had access, they could literally see the front of your house by using google maps.
I'm also gonna state that everyone's IP addresses were fully visible to everyone on staff while you played real time (and should not have been, only an admin should have such access).
Be safe.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Feb 28, 2023 13:34:52 GMT -5
The stark contrast between this announcement and Halaster's tone after the fact is aggravating. This just happened about an hour later in a group DM. (Halaster = Mukutep) I don't suppose you can somehow conjure evidence to prove this isn't just faked. I don't want to disbelieve you but god it literally looks like the 'Everything we would want if we hated Halaster' image.
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delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 90
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Post by delirium on Feb 28, 2023 13:48:03 GMT -5
I do think Halaster was in a panic and trying to stop the fire from going out of control by pausing the GDB as I assumed Genysis was acting without producer consent (who knows, at this point, if that's true, but that's what I figured) so I did wince when I saw him taking a serious beating for basically saying "stop, give me a moment to breathe and process all this" but at this point, it seems clear that he's too reactionary and easily swayed by others' opinions to take a firm stand on the right side of the line. Nor am I even convinced he'd end up on the right side of the line, because while I do believe he means well, he does not seem to see the heart of the issues at stake, nor does he seem willing to put down the proverbial rabid dog(s). Nobody is fully bad or good, everybody makes mistakes, but there are some obvious lines in the sand, and for whatever reason, he seems blind to those lines in favor of, I don't know? Wanting things to just go back to the way they were? Wanting things to stop feeling bad and people to stop being upset and for all the unpleasant stuff to just go away instead of having to slog through it to the other side? Not wanting to find out his buddies are abusive and predatory below the pretty surface he saw? Unfortunately, life doesn't work like that.
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Post by poorimpulsecontrol on Feb 28, 2023 13:59:10 GMT -5
I love the idea of a blanket amnesty. Clean slate for all. Lift the bans from the last 20 years. Punish shitty staff and shitty players openly.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,035
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Post by punished ppurg on Feb 28, 2023 14:15:54 GMT -5
@expendablearmstaffer
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 441
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Post by Patuk on Feb 28, 2023 14:18:50 GMT -5
Post the whole screenshot (I.E. the one with the 4-digit tag included) or no balls.
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