Desert elves (and other races)

There have been no particular changes to races, unless you played so long ago that d-elves still had like 300+ stamina. That was changed in 2005 or something. Around that time, elven wisdom was also nerfed a ton and is now only slightly higher than humans; about as much higher as dwarven strength is compared to humans.

The racial skills are steal and haggle for city elves, sneak and hide for desert elves. I believe half-elves also get a higher cap on their ride skill.

The caps for racial (or, in the code, 'innate') skills are not set in stone. It depends on your stats. This is what the code says:

get_innate_max_skill(CHAR_DATA * ch, int sk)
{
   int max = 0;

   switch (skill[sk].sk_class) {
   case CLASS_MANIP:
   case CLASS_STEALTH:
       max = 40 + agl_app[GET_AGL(ch)].stealth_manip;
       break;
   case CLASS_MAGICK:
       max = 30 + wis_app[GET_WIS(ch)].wis_saves / 2;
       break;
   case CLASS_PERCEP:
       max = 40 + wis_app[GET_WIS(ch)].percep;
       break;
   case CLASS_COMBAT:
   case CLASS_WEAPON:
       max = 25 + end_app[GET_END(ch)].end_saves;
       // allow trample to go higher than other combat/weapon skills
       if (sk == SKILL_TRAMPLE) max += 25;
       break;
   case CLASS_BARTER:
       max = 30 + wis_app[GET_WIS(ch)].percep;
       break;

To make sense of that, we need to look at the stat tables:

/*  strength apply  */
/*  to_dam, carry_w, bend_break  */
struct str_app_type str_app[101] = {
   {-9, 1, -1},                /* 0 */
   {-6, 5, 0},
   {-5, 10, 0},
   {-4, 20, 0},                /* 3 */
   {-4, 35, 0},
   {-3, 50, 0},
   {-3, 65, 0},                /* 6 */
   {-2, 80, 0},
   {-2, 95, 0},
   {-1, 105, 1},               /* 9 */
   {0, 110, 2},
   {0, 115, 3},
   {0, 117, 4},                /* 12 */
   {0, 120, 6},
   {0, 125, 9},
   {1, 140, 12},               /* 15 */
   {1, 155, 18},
   {2, 170, 24},
   {3, 195, 32},               /* 18 */
   {4, 230, 40},
   {5, 290, 48},
   {6, 380, 56},               /* 21 */
   {7, 430, 64},
   {8, 500, 72},
   {9, 640, 80},               /* 24 */
   {10, 680, 80},              /* 25 */

/*  agility apply  */
/*  react, stealth_manip, carry number, missile bonus c_delay */
struct agl_app_type agl_app[101] = {
   {0, 0, 0, 0, 15},           /* 0 */
   {-30, -50, 1, -30, 10},
   {-20, -40, 2, -25, 8},
   {-15, -30, 2, -20, 7},      /* 3 */
   {-10, -25, 2, -15, 5},
   {-5, -20, 3, -10, 5},
   {-5, -15, 3, -5, 5},        /* 6 */
   {0, -10, 4, -5, 4},
   {0, -5, 4, 0, 4},
   {0, 0, 5, 0, 4},            /* 9 */
   {0, 0, 5, 0, 4},
   {0, 0, 6, 0, 3},
   {0, 0, 6, 0, 3},            /* 12 */
   {0, 5, 7, 0, 3},
   {0, 5, 7, 0, 3},
   {0, 5, 8, 5, 3},            /* 15 */
   {5, 10, 8, 5, 2},
   {5, 15, 8, 5, 2},
   {5, 20, 9, 10, 2},          /* 18 */
   {10, 25, 9, 10, 2},
   {10, 25, 9, 15, 2},
   {10, 25, 10, 15, 2},        /* 21 */
   {15, 25, 10, 20, 2},
   {15, 30, 10, 20, 1},
   {20, 35, 11, 25, 1},        /* 24 */
   {25, 40, 12, 25, 1},        /* 25 */
   {28, 40, 12, 28, 1},

/* endurance apply  */
/* saving throws, system shock, move bonus */
struct end_app_type end_app[101] = {
   {-50, 0, 0},                /* 0 */
   {-50, 10, 1},               /* 1 */
   {-40, 20, 2},
   {-30, 30, 3},
   {-25, 40, 4},
   {-20, 45, 5},               /* 5 */
   {-15, 50, 6},
   {-10, 55, 7},
   {-5, 60, 8},
   {0, 65, 9},
   {0, 70, 10},                /* 10 */
   {0, 75, 11},
   {0, 80, 12},
   {5, 85, 13},
   {5, 88, 14},
   {5, 90, 15},                /* 15 */
   {10, 95, 17},
   {15, 97, 19},
   {20, 99, 21},
   {25, 99, 23},
   {25, 99, 25},               /* 20 */
   {30, 99, 28},
   {30, 99, 31},

/* wisdom apply  */
/* learn, perception, saves */
struct wis_app_type wis_app[101] = {
   {0, 0, 0},                  /* 0 */
   {1, -30, -50},
   {2, -20, -40},
   {4, -15, -30},              /* 3 */
   {6, -10, -25},
   {8, -5, -20},
   {10, -5, -15},              /* 6 */
   {12, 0, -10},
   {14, 0, -5},
   {16, 0, 0},                 /* 9 */
   {18, 0, 0},
   {20, 0, 0},
   {24, 0, 0},                 /* 12 */
   {28, 0, 0},
   {32, 0, 0},
   {38, 0, 5},                 /* 15 */
   {44, 5, 10},
   {50, 5, 15},
   {56, 5, 20},                /* 18 */
   {62, 10, 25},
   {68, 10, 30},
   {74, 10, 35},               /* 21 */
   {80, 15, 40},
   {86, 15, 45},
   {92, 20, 50},               /* 24 */
   {92, 20, 50},               /* 25 */


So if we want to find out what our city elf's innate steal skill caps at, we need to find the 'stealth_manip' value for his agility. Let's say he has 23 agility; this gives 30 in stealth_manip. That means the character's steal skill is capped at 70 (40 base + 30 from agility). Any skill that is not part of the character's class or subclass has a stat-based cap. If your city elf has 25+ agility, his steal would cap at 80 (master). Racial skills, ride, pilot, trample and (I believe) watch are skills that use this system, assuming you don't get the skill from a subclass. If you do get the skill from a sublcass, e.g. advanced ride, I don't think your stat bonus is added to the cap. I have no idea if this can give you a lower cap than you would have had without that subclass. Like if you pick a sub that gives a cap of 60 in ride but your stats would have given you 65, it's anyone's guess which one takes precedence.

To get master steal on a city elf or master hide/sneak on a d-elf, you need +40 to stealth_manip which requires 25 agility. Elven exceptional agility is 24-26, so it's right in the middle. You can actually check if you have 25+ because that's when you can hold 12 items in your inventory. If you rolled exceptional agility but can only hold 11 items, you have 24 agility. Sometimes it's possible to find out exactly what you have in a stat with tricks like these, but not always. Humans have no way of knowing if their exceptional agility is 18 or 19.

Here are the table for racial stats:


Human                   Human STR/AGI/END Human WIS
3d4+7 4d4+4
Absolutely Incredible |     20+ 21+
Exceptional             |   18-19 19-20
Extremely Good | 17 17-18
Very Good | 16 15-16
Good | 14-15 14
Above Average | 13 12-13
Average | 12 10-11
Below Average | 10-11 8-9
Poor | < 10 < 8

City Elf               cElf STR cElf AGI cElf WIS cElf END
3d4+3 3d6+8 4d7+5 2d4+8
Absolutely Incredible |     16+ 27+ 34+ 17+
Exceptional             |   14-15 24-26 30-33 16
Extremely Good | 13 22-23 27-29 15
Very Good | 12 20-21 23-26 14
Good | 10-11 18-19 20-22 13
Above Average | 9 16-17 16-19 12
Average | 8 14-15 13-15 11
Below Average | 6-7 11-13 9-12 10
Poor | < 10 < 11 < 9 < 10


Dwarf Dwarf STR Dwarf AGI Dwarf WIS Dwarf END
3d4+9 3d4+6 3d4+6 2d4+13
Absolutely Incredible |     22+ 19+ 19+ 22+
Exceptional             |   20-21 17-18 17-18 21
Extremely Good | 19 16 16 20
Very Good | 18 15 15 19
Good | 16-17 13-14 13-14 18
Above Average | 15 12 12 17
Average | 14 11 11 16
Below Average | 12-13 9-10 9-10 15
Poor | < 12 < 9 < 9 < 15


Half Elf HE STR HE AGI HE WIS HE END
3d4+6 3d4+7 3d4+7 3d4+8
Absolutely Incredible |     19+ 19+ 19+ 21+
Exceptional             |   17-18 17-18 17-18 19-20
Extremely Good | 16 16 16 18
Very Good | 15 15 15 17
Good | 13-14 14 14 15-16
Above Average | 12 13 13 14
Average | 11 12 12 13
Below Average | 9-10 10-11 10-11 11-12
Poor | < 9 < 10 < 10 < 11

   
Half Giant HG STR HG AGI HG WIS HG END
1d15+35 3d4+0 3d3+1 1d8+14
Absolutely Incredible |     51+ 13+ 11+ 24+
Exceptional             |   48-50 11-12 10 22-23
Extremely Good | 46-47 10 9 21
Very Good | 44-45 9 8 20
Good | 42-43 7-8 7 19
Above Average | 40-41 6 6 18
Average | 38-39 5 5 17
Below Average | 37-36 3-4 4 15-16
Poor | < 36 < 3 < 4 < 15
           
Desert Elf dElf STR dElf AGI dElf WIS dElf END
3d4+3 3d7+8 4d4+5 1d15+25
Absolutely Incredible |     16+ 30+ 22+ 41+
Exceptional             |   14-15 27-29 20-21 38-40
Extremely Good | 13 24-26 18-19 36-37
Very Good | 12 22-23 16-17 34-35
Good | 10-11 19-21 15 32-33
Above Average | 9 17-18 13-14 30-31
Average | 8 14-16 11-12 28-29
Below Average | 6-7 11-13 9-10 26-27
Poor | < 6 < 11 < 9 < 26


Note that some of those values are outdated, particularly city elf wisdom and desert elf endurance. The rest are correct as far as I've been able to determine.

You can find your wisdom pretty easily with the mana formula: ((wis-13)*3)+100. So if you have exactly 100 mana, you have 13 wisdom because ((13-13)*3)+100=100. If you have 94 mana, your wisdom is 11 because ((11-13)*3)+100=94. 103 mana means 14 wisdom, etc. Half-giants and muls get a flat penalty of -40 and -15 to mana.

Not completely sure, but I'm guessing saving throws are your defense against magic. Maybe the wisdom-based saves are for mind spells like sleep and endurance ones are for stuff like fireballs and whatnot. System shock sounds like something that just isn't used, like strength's bend_break substat. 'System shock' doesn't appear anywhere in the code except for the endurance table. Probably just something from the dawn of time.

It is pretty interesting. The code was leaked a few years back and I've spent a lot of time studying it out of sheer curiosity. It also revealed how many of the game's mechanics are paper thin and/or grotesquely unbalanced.

In the past a Ranger class was a no brainer for Delves. Any thoughts on interesting class/sub-class combinations now?

The parts I've been able to test have checked out. C-elf wisdom and d-elf stamina are known to be outdated. The rest match up with various tests.


It's probably between raider, scout and stalker. Mostly it depends what your goals are. Raider is like the old warrior but with some extra wilderness stuff on top, although some of it pertains to riding which won't help a d-elf. Scout is the closest thing to the old ranger in terms of combat but the class only gets advanced in its utility skills. If you get 25+ agility on your elf, you'll get your racial sneak/hide to master so that should be okay. Stalker is the wilderness stealth class, with fairly weak combat skills (low advanced) but master in a bunch of utility stuff like stealth, scan, listen, hunt, poisoning, etc. If you want to rely on stealth and don't want to pray for a very high agility roll, stalker is probably your best bet. But their combat skills are basically on par with the old pickpocket's, so don't expect to be the terror of the wastes. They don't even get master archery. It's like the old ranger in non-combat terms but shit at combat.

I would probably go raider and fish for 25+ agility to get master stealth from the elven racials. Raiders get master archery as well, so the only thing you won't be good at with such a character is scan and then fluff like forage and skinning which you can get with a subclass if you care about them. You'll get low advanced scan which is just about worthless, but you'll get useful utility skills like climb and direction sense which are must-haves for a desert elf. Scout, in my opinion, is not that great. They get high advanced stealth and perception skills which is not enough to matter. Stalker is good if you want to be a sneaky sniper with poisons and good scan and whatnot, and don't mind being a bit crap at regular combat.

If you want to be cheeky, you could also go infiltrator for the sweet backstabs. I'm actually not 100% sure d-elves can pick infiltrator (they couldn't pick assassin) so maybe that's not possible; but if it is, that's a pretty cool idea. Infiltrators only get high advanced in most of their skills, but if you can get to master sneak/hide with the racial, that helps a lot. Backstab goes all the way to master, and then you can pick some hunting-based subclass. But that's assuming d-elves actually can take infiltrator. I've never bothered to check.


Are you sure about that? Because the system shock substat predates the actual reel code which was introduced sometime around the big defense nerf that came in like 2006 or something, and reel resistance is supposed to be a hidden skill that can be raised. And just like strength's break_bend, there is no reference to system shock anywhere in the code except for the column in the endurance table.

I have no idea if d-elf agility is still higher than c-elf, it's been so long since I played one. Maybe it still is.

Watch cap is determined by wisdom's perception substat since it's a perception skill.

case CLASS_PERCEP:
       max = 40 + wis_app[GET_WIS(ch)].percep;

And since you need really high wisdom in order to get any bonus to perception, it's not really worth thinking about.

I'm of the opinion that there's only two worthwhile approaches to combat: play one of the heavy combat classes or utilize one of the gotcha skills (backstab/sap, archery, poison, maybe throw). Whatever you do, the associated skills need to be master. Well, maybe not weapons, it's almost impossible and generally unnecessary to get master weapons, but you want master parry and whatnot if you're going to rely on normal combat for anything beyond hunting animals.

It was a bit easier to get away with not-master parry back when you could raise defense against anything, but now you have to get hit by something with offense that's close enough to your defense to qualify for gains, so the old Sirra-style 100 defense ranger isn't very feasible anymore. That means taking a scout (and especially a stalker) into melee is a bad idea. And since stalkers don't master any combat skills, it's kind of an issue. They do get advanced archery, but that's not that great. With high elf agility it's good enough at landing poisons, but then you're dependent on peraine or heramide to do anything in PvP. Killing anyone via arrow damage at advanced archery is not a good plan.

Unfortunately for the scout, its main selling point is master archery which raiders also get. While the same is true with backstab for enforcer and infiltrator, at least enforcers have to branch backstab from high piercing which takes forever, and enforcer stealth is so bad (unless elf) that infiltrator actually has something going for it in that department.

Honestly, a lot of the new classes just aren't good if you're interested in coded competency. If you're a flavor player who's mostly about social RP, something like the pilferer might be fine. But if you care about how good your character is at whatever its class is meant to do, there's like four or five classes that are worth playing.