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Post by lechuck on May 28, 2020 4:46:25 GMT -5
Yeah, you're not wrong about that. Once in a blue moon when I do get bored enough to make a character, that's the main thing that kills my motivation. You spend a month or two building up a PC and then it gets killed in some cheap way that you couldn't do anything about, often for no more reason than someone was bored and looking for somebody to kill. There's so little going on anymore that too many players play the game that way.
Armageddon has far too many ways to PK that circumvent coded defenses. It can be fun to play a powerful fighter, but it helps very little in staying alive because your killer is not gonna kill you by walking up and typing 'kill amos.' It's gonna be that peraine, that one-hit sap, that hair-trigger arrest, etc. While these things were always possible, most people had better things to do back when the game actually had things to care about.
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Post by sitbackandchillout on May 28, 2020 8:26:39 GMT -5
After what happened to pinkerdlu's super-stat super-skill fighter, I don't see why anyone would bother to put in the effort. You can face a bahemet, but some low effort dweeb decides to snipe with a poisoned dagger or a bow? You might as well be a child wielding a stick for all the good it does. Same if it's a day one dwarf with a club when you're sitting unarmed in the Gaj, or a half-giant grabbing and throwing you, or a templar with five soldiers, or a mage. Why bother. The level of effort is so disproportionate. Interesting, what happened, actually?
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Post by sitbackandchillout on May 28, 2020 9:27:37 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that there's only two worthwhile approaches to combat: play one of the heavy combat classes or utilize one of the gotcha skills (backstab/sap, archery, poison, maybe throw). Whatever you do, the associated skills need to be master. Well, maybe not weapons, it's almost impossible and generally unnecessary to get master weapons, but you want master parry and whatnot if you're going to rely on normal combat for anything beyond hunting animals. It was a bit easier to get away with not-master parry back when you could raise defense against anything, but now you have to get hit by something with offense that's close enough to your defense to qualify for gains, so the old Sirra-style 100 defense ranger isn't very feasible anymore. That means taking a scout (and especially a stalker) into melee is a bad idea. And since stalkers don't master any combat skills, it's kind of an issue. They do get advanced archery, but that's not that great. With high elf agility it's good enough at landing poisons, but then you're dependent on peraine or heramide to do anything in PvP. Killing anyone via arrow damage at advanced archery is not a good plan. Unfortunately for the scout, its main selling point is master archery which raiders also get. While the same is true with backstab for enforcer and infiltrator, at least enforcers have to branch backstab from high piercing which takes forever, and enforcer stealth is so bad (unless elf) that infiltrator actually has something going for it in that department. Honestly, a lot of the new classes just aren't good if you're interested in coded competency. If you're a flavor player who's mostly about social RP, something like the pilferer might be fine. But if you care about how good your character is at whatever its class is meant to do, there's like four or five classes that are worth playing. Agreed, I feel very much the same way. One of the upshots is that the new classes start with skill bumps which for the combat classes is actually significant. And the learning rates of the new HC classes is faster than that of the old warrior, unless I'm feeling it wrong? Going back to the topic, I've a another question/observation. If you play a race that defines the max of the Str.Agi.End.Wis charts then you have the capability of, including age and class modifiers, exceeding the number on those tables. A - I assume you get no coded benefit past the end of the tables. B - Does this number "cap" at the max for the tables, which would have the side effect of, for example, a very young elf who rolled max Agi would have AI, but then once they started aging they'd drop down. Thereby having their Agi be lower than if "should" be. If they had for example rolled an older elf, past the point of youth-Agi-bonus, and had the same RNG they would have a higher Agi for the middle period of their years. Do you follow me there?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2020 13:00:20 GMT -5
Note that some of those values are outdated, particularly city elf wisdom and desert elf endurance. The rest are correct as far as I've been able to determine. You can find your wisdom pretty easily with the mana formula: ((wis-13)*3)+100. So if you have exactly 100 mana, you have 13 wisdom because ((13-13)*3)+100=100. If you have 94 mana, your wisdom is 11 because ((11-13)*3)+100=94. 103 mana means 14 wisdom, etc. Half-giants and muls get a flat penalty of -40 and -15 to mana.
There was a change to the mana code at some point. The above formula is true between 50 and either 135 or 150. Lower than 50 mana, every point of wis is 5 mana. Above the high threshold of 135 or 150, 1 level of wisdom is 1 point of mana.
I can only assume the upper diminishing returns were added as a nerf on elf mages with rings and spice. Past the diminshing returns, its usually more effective to use +mana regen rangz, if you have that choice.
There is a trick with any race to check exactly where you are in a stat range. Most of the spice decreases in effect by 1 point per interval at the end of its effect. Watch for when your stat changes between named ranges.
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Post by lechuck on May 28, 2020 13:43:03 GMT -5
If you play a race that defines the max of the Str.Agi.End.Wis charts then you have the capability of, including age and class modifiers, exceeding the number on those tables. A - I assume you get no coded benefit past the end of the tables. B - Does this number "cap" at the max for the tables, which would have the side effect of, for example, a very young elf who rolled max Agi would have AI, but then once they started aging they'd drop down. Thereby having their Agi be lower than if "should" be. If they had for example rolled an older elf, past the point of youth-Agi-bonus, and had the same RNG they would have a higher Agi for the middle period of their years. Do you follow me there? A: The tables are actually longer than what I posted. They each go up to 100 for some reason, but usually the stats stop doing anything around a certain point. I can PM them to you, it would take up an entire page to post them here. B: As far as I know, your stats can exceed the natural range for your race. You can overcap with things like spells, spice and rangz, too. I'm pretty sure the same goes for age-related stuff, so you wouldn't end up with a "worse character" for that reason. Here's how age works: Any given age has a percentage score for each stat. This is how much of your base roll you get when you enter the game. If you get, say, 95% of your strength and you rolled a natural 20, you come in with 19 strength. If you then hit an age that gets 100% of its strength, the stat goes up. The only stat that can actually exceed 100% based on age is agility for extremely young characters. The 14-16 age bracket gets 110% of its agility roll. 10-13 gets 120%, but they upped the minimum human age to 16 at one point (used to be 13), so to get an agility bonus you'd have to start at 16 and it would only last for like 40 days or however long an in-game year is. Here's the age table: age str% end% agi% wis% 14-16 80 85 110 85 17-20 85 95 100 95 21-23 90 100 100 98.5 24-27 95 100 100 98.7 28-30 97.5 100 98.7 98.8 31-33 100 100 97.5 98.9 34-37 100 100 96.7 99 38-40 97.5 100 95 99.1
That's just for humans. There's some stuff in the code about 'virtual age' to convert the ages of other races to the equivalent human age, but I couldn't understand that shit and it seemed like it was probably outdated. I can post that if anyone wants to look at it. When I tried to calculate it, it didn't seem to make sense or match up with what you get in-game. Note that any number below 100 always gives at least -1 because the code rounds down, so if you rolled a 15 and age turned it into 14.9, that's 14. Wisdom, for some reason, is <100 all the way up to 'ancient' so basically all characters will have at least -1 wisdom. This is why that stat seems to come out poor half the time. Since it's percentage-based, the penalty could be -1 or -2 depending on the base roll. 95% of 22 is 20.9, so 20, i.e. -2. 95% of 18 is 17.1, so -1. If you're trying to land a high stat, you have to be the right age. It's a really bad idea to make a fighter under 24 because that 90% strength is pretty much always -2. Strength is only 100% at 31-37. Before I knew this shit, I always made my warriors 28ish thinking this must be old enough to avoid a strength penalty, and I'd wonder why I hadn't seen AI strength across 50+ characters. Note that there's no age that does not get a penalty to either strength or agility.
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Post by sitbackandchillout on May 28, 2020 16:00:45 GMT -5
Ahhhh, nice one, I'm with you. This is all super interesting, I love it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2020 2:31:50 GMT -5
Note that some of those values are outdated, particularly city elf wisdom and desert elf endurance. The rest are correct as far as I've been able to determine. You can find your wisdom pretty easily with the mana formula: ((wis-13)*3)+100. So if you have exactly 100 mana, you have 13 wisdom because ((13-13)*3)+100=100. If you have 94 mana, your wisdom is 11 because ((11-13)*3)+100=94. 103 mana means 14 wisdom, etc. Half-giants and muls get a flat penalty of -40 and -15 to mana.
There was a change to the mana code at some point. The above formula is true between 50 and either 135 or 150. Lower than 50 mana, every point of wis is 5 mana. Above the high threshold of 135 or 150, 1 level of wisdom is 1 point of mana.
I can only assume the upper diminishing returns were added as a nerf on elf mages with rings and spice. Past the diminshing returns, its usually more effective to use +mana regen rangz, if you have that choice.
There is a trick with any race to check exactly where you are in a stat range. Most of the spice decreases in effect by 1 point per interval at the end of its effect. Watch for when your stat changes between named ranges.
I rolled a c elf nilazi with over 150 mana and they changed the c elf mana code
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on Jun 1, 2020 3:27:08 GMT -5
I rolled a c elf nilazi with over 150 mana and they changed the c elf mana code talk abt a kick in the magikal nutsack
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Post by Amos's Boots on Jun 1, 2020 13:36:39 GMT -5
After what happened to pinkerdlu's super-stat super-skill fighter, I don't see why anyone would bother to put in the effort. You can face a bahemet, but some low effort dweeb decides to snipe with a poisoned dagger or a bow? You might as well be a child wielding a stick for all the good it does. Same if it's a day one dwarf with a club when you're sitting unarmed in the Gaj, or a half-giant grabbing and throwing you, or a templar with five soldiers, or a mage. Why bother. The level of effort is so disproportionate. Interesting, what happened, actually? What happened was a culmination of staff's lack of ability to maintain oversight of an event, and another player being so twinked out of his mind and also wearing RANGZ (and also carrying no moral compass as his character) deciding to side with the bad-guys in an event. Evil RANGZ man shot an arrow at pinkerdlu, doing 97ish damage in a single shot. Staff, lacking oversight, continued to order NPCs to shoot at pinkerdlu as well. Staff did the finishing blows because they were clueless this third party did so much damage in a short period of time.
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Post by sitbackandchillout on Jun 1, 2020 23:01:49 GMT -5
Interesting, what happened, actually? What happened was a culmination of staff's lack of ability to maintain oversight of an event, and another player being so twinked out of his mind and also wearing RANGZ (and also carrying no moral compass as his character) deciding to side with the bad-guys in an event. Evil RANGZ man shot an arrow at pinkerdlu, doing 97ish damage in a single shot. Staff, lacking oversight, continued to order NPCs to shoot at pinkerdlu as well. Staff did the finishing blows because they were clueless this third party did so much damage in a short period of time. Ouch, that sucks... Sounds like it was a difficult thing to keep track of in real time. I know I struggle to get that kind of info out of the game through the command prompt with RPT scroll-spam. Maybe holding staff to a higher standard than a noob like me is reasonable however
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2020 12:12:44 GMT -5
What happened was a culmination of staff's lack of ability to maintain oversight of an event, and another player being so twinked out of his mind and also wearing RANGZ (and also carrying no moral compass as his character) deciding to side with the bad-guys in an event. Evil RANGZ man shot an arrow at pinkerdlu, doing 97ish damage in a single shot. Staff, lacking oversight, continued to order NPCs to shoot at pinkerdlu as well. Staff did the finishing blows because they were clueless this third party did so much damage in a short period of time. Ouch, that sucks... Sounds like it was a difficult thing to keep track of in real time. I know I struggle to get that kind of info out of the game through the command prompt with RPT scroll-spam. Maybe holding staff to a higher standard than a noob like me is reasonable however Is it so much to ask that people running combat events learn how the combat code works?
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
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Post by jkarr on Jun 2, 2020 19:37:18 GMT -5
Is it so much to ask that people running combat events learn how the combat code works? ohh i get it now u actually think ur chars arent there for just that purpose
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,032
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Post by punished ppurg on Jun 2, 2020 22:31:22 GMT -5
Is it so much to ask that people running combat events learn how the combat code works?
Armageddon doesn't have anybody with knowledge of how the combat system works. If they did, then the trash would be fixed by now.
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Post by terminal on Jun 4, 2020 13:07:22 GMT -5
Interesting, what happened, actually? What happened was a culmination of staff's lack of ability to maintain oversight of an event, and another player being so twinked out of his mind and also wearing RANGZ (and also carrying no moral compass as his character) deciding to side with the bad-guys in an event. Evil RANGZ man shot an arrow at pinkerdlu, doing 97ish damage in a single shot. Staff, lacking oversight, continued to order NPCs to shoot at pinkerdlu as well. Staff did the finishing blows because they were clueless this third party did so much damage in a short period of time. did staff do the finishing blow? i was there in character and i'm pretty sure it was just one pc shooting at that character. there were like 10-15 targets in the room, with at least a few being much juicier targets than a byn sergeant. dude was targeted by a player.
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vex
Clueless newb
Posts: 133
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Post by vex on Jun 4, 2020 15:57:12 GMT -5
AFAIK, he was the targetted, because the player shooting him was crazy/jealous, that he was banging that maw girl at some point.
There was a lot of creepy AF stuff going on with that pc, where he'd follow female pcs around the game, flirting / trying to mudfuck, and playing up the (seriously unwanted) hero to the damsel shit. Wouldn't leave a few of my pcs alone despite telling him, point blank, not interested, and I really considered a player complaint, a couple of times. A total beta cuck, desperately chasing alpha fuck dreams, in a text game about bone swords and magick rings.
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