Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 16:46:43 GMT -5
I still get tickled when I see older players sitting down in the bar and they type 'scan'. I want to shake them and say, "It cuts your scan power in half to be sitting! Stand up if you want to even try to spot thieves!" They might want to be failing to improve scan. Also, the scan thing. The sitting/resting impairing scan/watch is announced on gdb. Lots of hidden stuff though, I agree. Just this one is a bad example. I recall Taven once made a thread of "Cool code things." |
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Post by jcarter on Jan 9, 2020 17:15:53 GMT -5
ShaLeah i edited out your link. while it was really funny and ruffed @qwerty feathers enough to get him to report the post, proboards can be sensitive to that stuff.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 9, 2020 17:26:10 GMT -5
The moderation culture is strong in Qwerty.
To answer the question you asked about the specific bolded - You then remove original guilds/classes and put in the new ones making grinding completely different changing the powerscale of mundanes and making these touched and halfy gickers super powerful by comparison.
Old school ranger > new classes
Also changes to how grinding works means that master weaponskills are less common and offense/defense getting to 'game breaking' levels is also much harder.
These backend changes to both the mundane classes and how mundane characters gain 'power' make gicker and touched gickers more powerful by comparison. When you have mundane dude vs dude with ruk hammers or whatever. The ruk hammer guy is going to be more powerful with less time/effort that the mundane.
Thus you have essentially gone from full gicker guilds and oldschool guilds with super power with no grind to super power with extensive grind all the way to some power with some grind and no power without extensive grind. Obviously my phrasing is going to skew the comparison but my point is that with all the changes it's the same thing. gickers > mundanes but now even oldbie mundanes cannot compete because the way grinding occurs is punitive.
I don't play, I could be wrong, I just talk to people who do play. I just believe players play what makes them happy and trying to restrict that is a losing battle seemingly one that has come full circle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 17:45:30 GMT -5
The moderation culture is strong in Qwerty. To answer the question you asked about the specific bolded - You then remove original guilds/classes and put in the new ones making grinding completely different changing the powerscale of mundanes and making these touched and halfy gickers super powerful by comparison. Old school ranger > new classes Also changes to how grinding works means that master weaponskills are less common and offense/defense getting to 'game breaking' levels is also much harder. These backend changes to both the mundane classes and how mundane characters gain 'power' make gicker and touched gickers more powerful by comparison. When you have mundane dude vs dude with ruk hammers or whatever. The ruk hammer guy is going to be more powerful with less time/effort that the mundane. Thus you have essentially gone from full gicker guilds and oldschool guilds with super power with no grind to super power with extensive grind all the way to some power with some grind and no power without extensive grind. Obviously my phrasing is going to skew the comparison but my point is that with all the changes it's the same thing. gickers > mundanes but now even oldbie mundanes cannot compete because the way grinding occurs is punitive. I don't play, I could be wrong, I just talk to people who do play. I just believe players play what makes them happy and trying to restrict that is a losing battle seemingly one that has come full circle. See. At this point, I can only rely on Brokkr stats, because I haven't really been playing the last while. Brokkr says that learning new weapons has become easier with the changes, not harder. The way things should be working right now as far as offense/defense/weapon skills are going. New character with low off/def learns a lot faster of sparring by someone with high off/def. So much faster that, depending on his wisdom, the noob will reach similar levels to others in the clan. Once the skill levels are relatively equal, the chances to learn to down to how they usually were before the changes. Depending on the guild that is. So a fighter will learn faster with an equal level opponent, while a merchant will need a significantly higher level opponent to gain his bonus to learning chance. The odds of learning from someone significantly less trained then you are drop though. Again that penalty afflicts combat tiers less then it would merchant tiers. But as long as you have opponents that are equal to you, you should be learning at the speed you always have before, or faster. The only people who lost out in these situations are the ones who use NPCs to skill up, instead of PCs. But that's a good thing, no? I mean having a guy in a clan for a rl year and then getting creamed by a hunter who's been hunting stilt lizards unarmed is a bad thing, right? |
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Post by shakes on Jan 9, 2020 19:32:46 GMT -5
The only way you're getting creamed by anyone is via a locked room kill or poisons/instagib backstab or sap.
Most everyone else can get away from a straight up fight. 90% of the combat system is for showing off your e-peen in a sparring circle.
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ShaLeah
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Post by ShaLeah on Jan 9, 2020 19:37:06 GMT -5
You really should put something like "Not safe for office" or whatever. Not cool.  ShaLeah i edited out your link. while it was really funny and ruffed @qwerty feathers enough to get him to report the post, proboards can be sensitive to that stuff.  Is this one okay?   |
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Post by sirra on Jan 9, 2020 20:23:56 GMT -5
The only way you're getting creamed by anyone is via a locked room kill or poisons/instagib backstab or sap. Most everyone else can get away from a straight up fight. 90% of the combat system is for showing off your e-peen in a sparring circle. Also if you're charged in the open. Or somehow bashed because for whatever reason, you were fighting dismounted. |
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Post by shakes on Jan 9, 2020 21:06:48 GMT -5
Yeah, charge or bash can get you if they've got the oomph to kill you before you can stand and flee.
There's just not a lot of stand and trade swings and hold the line style pvp. It just doesn't happen in my experience. Even that big RPT where they had a ton of people on both sides ... how did they kill? Gickery.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 9, 2020 22:03:16 GMT -5
So in a thread that is part of a series showing the decline of Armageddon's playerbase... You are telling me the staff think that linking progression to PC on PC activity is a good idea.
1. Actively harms indies while also encouraging indies to further band together
2. Actively harms off peakers
3. Actively harms casual players
4. Makes login, hunt, forage, bar RP a non-viable game loop for progression which is the basis of making some players feel a sense of accomplishment/progress
5. Discourages combat gameplay outside of clans or cities
6. Discourages emergent RP between people out in the wilds because it's no longer both a material gathering/skill progressing activity. Less raider incentive less bumping into someone and suspiciously working near each other, less less less.
The thing which makes RPIs more desirable than MUSHes is the ability to be productive whether you are typing emotes or playing in the game world. Part of being productive is not only getting materials, surviving, and exploring but improving your character. Why should someone play on Armageddon over Arx if Armageddon has a shrinking playerbase and requires PC on PC to progress effectively and Arx has 100s of players and is all about PC on PC scenes?
Finally if it's the option between being a straight mundane and grinding up or being a splash gicker... Why would I ever want to play a straight mundane that is any sort of hunter? Better to be a thief or crafter or something with a less prohibitive grind path.
EDIT - Minor edit: If players bare knuckle fighting skeet is bad then understand why they are doing that. They are trying to achieve competency to fight stuff and feel cool and survive. Don't look at it and go... Competency/Mastery how dare thee, we shall make it harder. Figure out a way to enable it in a better way not slow it down moar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2020 23:11:21 GMT -5
So in a thread that is part of a series showing the decline of Armageddon's playerbase... You are telling me the staff think that linking progression to PC on PC activity is a good idea. 1. Actively harms indies while also encouraging indies to further band together 2. Actively harms off peakers 3. Actively harms casual players 4. Makes login, hunt, forage, bar RP a non-viable game loop for progression which is the basis of making some players feel a sense of accomplishment/progress 5. Discourages combat gameplay outside of clans or cities 6. Discourages emergent RP between people out in the wilds because it's no longer both a material gathering/skill progressing activity. Less raider incentive less bumping into someone and suspiciously working near each other, less less less. The thing which makes RPIs more desirable than MUSHes is the ability to be productive whether you are typing emotes or playing in the game world. Part of being productive is not only getting materials, surviving, and exploring but improving your character. Why should someone play on Armageddon over Arx if Armageddon has a shrinking playerbase and requires PC on PC to progress effectively and Arx has 100s of players and is all about PC on PC scenes? Finally if it's the option between being a straight mundane and grinding up or being a splash gicker... Why would I ever want to play a straight mundane that is any sort of hunter? Better to be a thief or crafter or something with a less prohibitive grind path. EDIT - Minor edit: If players bare knuckle fighting skeet is bad then understand why they are doing that. They are trying to achieve competency to fight stuff and feel cool and survive. Don't look at it and go... Competency/Mastery how dare thee, we shall make it harder. Figure out a way to enable it in a better way not slow it down moar.
That's exactly what they did? They made sparring and more sensable method of training more beneficial? They did exactly what you're asking.
They didnt prevent all of the stuff you mention. Not hunting, not foraging. They just made it less beneficial relative to being in a clan and made being in a clan more beneficial relative to being an indie. While before, you 'had' to be an indie to achieve high skill and were doomed to be stuck on journeyman if you ever joined a clan.
Seems like you're critiquing both sides. Damned if you do, damned if you dont for you.
None of those changes seemed to have affected things. Indie groups popping up all the time and some of them were pretty strong and viable.
Are you basting your statements on anything particularly concrete, Jeshin?
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 9, 2020 23:16:33 GMT -5
I already stated in a post in this thread >_> the same day you're asking that I have people talking to me who play and that my assessment can be wrong.
Based on game design though, simple follow through logic it would seem the results are self-evident.
Sparring shouldn't be better than fighting NPCs. They should be equal.
If people are breaking the game to progress faster to have fun make the progression smoother and faster not restrictive. Don't say well you have to spar and someone better than you and then hope you and the people you spar against keep yoyoing past each other so you can get slingshot ahead of them so they can get slingshot ahead of you.
Lowering the overall powerscale of the game was a mistake because it accomplished nothing but making people long for the good old days or want to twink even moar to compensate.
EDIT - Failing should be enough. Failing should always be achievable. Failing against something that meets specific requirements is the opposite of what people twinked to do. They twinked because they were other powergamers (ignore) or the natural progression was to slow. Adding requirements to failing to progress makes it... SLOWER!
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tedium
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Post by tedium on Jan 9, 2020 23:25:41 GMT -5
What I think Jeshin is saying: An advantage of RPIs is that you can attain a sense of progress without being reliant on other players. When you take that away, you're left with the progression of a MUSH, but none of the advantages of a MUSH.
The issue with sparring stilt lizards isn't that people want to progress without engaging with other people. The issue is that its mostly riskless and silly. Fighting bahamet, meks, silt horrors, and other big beasties should drive those higher-end gains, but because of Arm's code, those creatures are among the least likely to do so.
FWIW, I think that progress via people should be better than NPCs, but the problem is that all of those high-end beasts require you to cooperate with other people and don't give the same rewards as mindlessly sparring in a safe room.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 9, 2020 23:31:33 GMT -5
NPCs are strictly thematic.
PCs are garbage people who don't stay on theme.
Solo posting and using thinks while killing NPCs should give GREATER rewards than RPing with those pleb players who don't do it right.
/sarc
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tedium
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Post by tedium on Jan 9, 2020 23:36:32 GMT -5
I was going to say that if a Tuluki NPC saw an elf and a bard fucking, it wouldn't intercede which is totally unthematic, but I realized PCs wouldn't either.
I have to concede that the NPCs are better RPers than PCs.
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sneazy
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Post by sneazy on Jan 10, 2020 5:50:30 GMT -5
I was going to say that if a Tuluki NPC saw an elf and a bard fucking, it wouldn't intercede which is totally unthematic, but I realized PCs wouldn't either. I have to concede that the NPCs are better RPers than PCs. Well now, the bard is 12 years old and called the elf the N-thang. The elf was a pedo (it was in his app) and had perfectly IC reasons to rape the bard. |
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