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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Nov 7, 2019 19:48:50 GMT -5
I think it's fair to say at this stage that Armageddon staff's defenders have no answer as to why staff either wipe clans or ignore them, and no answer as to why staff repeatedly fail to implement a meaningful plot for the game. The discussion on the GDB mostly blames recent code changes on changes in player behavior, but this doesn't account for staff attitudes prior to poison updates or NPC behavior updates or the new class system. It's clear that staff apathy and inattention are to blame; it's the reason for most of the game's problems.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2019 23:31:54 GMT -5
When is/are your mud(s) opening? You too can be a heroin dealer.
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ccp
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Post by ccp on Nov 7, 2019 23:57:50 GMT -5
Seems like a guy who cared a lot about his personal success ragequit because he died in an RPT.
Sorry that you were swept up in the plot. Fyi a lot died in this rpt and not just you, but just you are publicly ragequitting. Just pointing out some obvious points here, but if the goal is collective storytelling, sometimes you gotta die. You might die after 2 days played or 50 or 100 days played but eventually the story ends.
I have a damn good feeling that the people you kudos in your post aren't ragequitting. You can quit, but I personally think you are going through stages of loss and that you will eventually realize that there are more stories to tell.
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Post by shakes on Nov 8, 2019 1:57:33 GMT -5
I keep all my 'welcome to armageddon' and 'death' emails in a folder. Every now and then I look at them and see some really wild character I had a ton of fun with and do the math ... 9 days? That character was only alive for 9 days? But I accomplished a ton of stuff and people still talk about him 8 months later! 9 days? How can that be?
Live fast. Live hard. Take chances. Play the game.
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Post by gloryhound on Nov 8, 2019 3:58:44 GMT -5
Seems like a guy who cared a lot about his personal success ragequit because he died in an RPT. Sorry that you were swept up in the plot. Fyi a lot died in this rpt and not just you, but just you are publicly ragequitting. Just pointing out some obvious points here, but if the goal is collective storytelling, sometimes you gotta die. You might die after 2 days played or 50 or 100 days played but eventually the story ends. I have a damn good feeling that the people you kudos in your post aren't ragequitting. You can quit, but I personally think you are going through stages of loss and that you will eventually realize that there are more stories to tell. As though as a Byn Sergeant he had any option but to be in what the staff had decided would be a PC death fest. And the real annoyance is how cheap the death was for a character so very combat-capable. More stories to tell? "I lived, I tried to get stronger so I'd survive, I was killed". Largely the same "story" over and over, in different flavors but the same dish. Throw in some "I lived, I tried to make a difference in the world, I ran into a brick wall a mile tall". And maybe "I lived, I managed to pull together a lot of coin, I discovered coin is useless" for the newbies. |
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Post by sirra on Nov 8, 2019 4:14:38 GMT -5
Referring to a question a couple pages back:
What Armageddon Reborn did was train people for about 4 years straight to not give a shit about the current game. There was seemingly a bargain sale on the staff either cheapening or giving away as much of the secrets and mystery as possible.
For two years after that (the radio silence period), it convinced some people to be cautiously hopeful about participating again, however this period was largely marked by almost the COMPLETE apathy and non-involvement from staff. Like half the reason people suck Shaloonsh off so much, is that he was a rare staffer that was a bit more active during this period.
When Armageddon Reborn was cancelled, those past players who knew about it, and had been turned off by Reborn, briefly came back. However, they discovered a very different staff culture, and a different game culture as well, which was much more apathetic and cynical than in 2006. Since cancelling Reborn didn't bring about any change (such as more effort by staff invested in the game), there was no reason to stay.
Similarly, after Tuluk was closed down, there was a brief surge of interest. However, when staff didn't do anything with it, and with seemingly no saved workload from Tuluk that was visible in Allanak, people became disillusioned that it essentially just made the game world smaller for no gain.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Nov 8, 2019 5:39:00 GMT -5
Like half the reason people suck Shaloonsh off so much, is that he was a rare staffer that was a bit more active during this period. Hey, that's not the only reason! He also came up with the furry race for Reborn. But on a more serious note, you're right. There were always these glimmers of hope that staff were changing the game for the better, and then something inevitably came along to disprove it. Just look at the announcement that came out on April 13, 2015, declaring that Tuluk would be closed in two weeks (April 27): In addition to several other changes mentioned in this post: on April 27, we will be closing Tuluk for PC play and making it virtual. It will still exist in an IC fashion and may be open for specifically scheduled RPTs, but it will no longer be a place that PCs can point to or play in without staff intervention. We will reassess this closure periodically to determine whether conditions are suitable for it to be opened again. This was a difficult decision, but one that we feel will best meet our needs of consolidating our staffing team and allowing us to focus on enlivening the game, enhancing the staffing role and continuing to deliver Armageddon as an RPI MUD. Staff turnover and staff shortfalls have made the task of maintaining a staffing team with forward momentum difficult for more than short periods. While we remain at full strength temporarily, we inevitably lose staffers (just as we lose players in sponsored roles) to real-life circumstances. We believe that consolidating our staffing resources and altering the staffing structure will allow us to staff the game more efficiently and more productively, even with the shortfalls we experience. We have been regularly investing in Tuluk with new documentation, new roles, new code, and the like. This has caused a drain on staff and staffing resources. The effort involved has been high. The payoff has been mixed due to lessened player impact. It would be fair to say that one other negative (on players and staff) would be vocal detractors of player and staff efforts in this area. We’d like to thank all staff and players that have put in effort to bring Tuluk to life over the years. Plots, characters, and new systems have come about all due to your contributions. The game has been made better because of your accomplishments. We’re also sorry that we have to proceed with this as a necessity because it does affect existing PCs. Those of you that have been playing in Tuluk recently as a non-noble/templar role have been/will be given some IC reasoning for leaving the city and staying away. Tuluki noble and templar roles will need to be stored. If you are playing one of these roles, staff will be reaching out to you via request. While it is not much of a replacement for a character you have invested in, we would like to open up dialogue with you about potential options, let you vent, etc. This same offer for dialogue goes for anyone playing a PC from Tuluk that they feel cannot be transitioned out, or that otherwise must be stored. Please discuss this with your staff! There are so many promises here, and yet none of them ever panned out: - " We will reassess this closure periodically to determine whether conditions are suitable for it to be opened again. ": Was this ever done? Would there be any proof if it did happen? - "This was a difficult decision, but one that we feel will best meet our needs of consolidating our staffing team and allowing us to focus on enlivening the game, enhancing the staffing role and continuing to deliver Armageddon as an RPI MUD. " : How did the role of staffing change at all? Did the decision enliven the game or destroy potential for conflict between nations, making all conflict between Allanak and other groups completely asymmetrical? - "We believe that consolidating our staffing resources and altering the staffing structure will allow us to staff the game more efficiently and more productively, even with the shortfalls we experience. " : How has staff turnover changed for the better? AFAIK there's been two staff turnovers this year alone. The biggest and strangest change is that Akariel went from being an Admin to being a quasi-builder, floating admin/storyteller person with an unknown amount of authority. - "It would be fair to say that one other negative (on players and staff) would be vocal detractors of player and staff efforts in this area. " : In other words, "we're closing because some of you said mean things about Tuluk". These lies, incidentally, are what makes sentiments like ccp's incredibly short-sighted. Not only are players limited in what stories they can tell with their characters, but staff can and will, at any time, end your story for any reason or no reason at all. The reasoning has devolved in reasonableness over time: from closing entire play areas in April 2015 to today's apparent need to make NPC opponents for mini-plots incredibly strong so that they're a challenge to a clan, to the point that the clan gets wiped and all recruiting and training efforts are undone. |
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Post by mehtastic on Nov 8, 2019 5:42:33 GMT -5
You can quit, but I personally think you are going through stages of loss and that you will eventually realize that there are more stories to tell. There aren't, though. That's the point of the thread. Or one of the points anyway, now that we're 8 pages in. Feel free to keep playing a shitty game with no plot, but there's no need to drag people into your shared misery. Edit: Taking a moment here to comment on arguably one of the worst visible parts of Armageddon's player culture: the people who respond to "I quit" threads with "sEe YoU iN a MoNtH!!11 CRACKAGEDDON!!111". How sociopathic do you have to be to wish that someone frustrated with the game will come crawling back to it? How deluded do you have to be to believe that there's nothing else out there that's fun besides Armageddon? |
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Post by jkarr on Nov 8, 2019 7:07:34 GMT -5
the junkies i knew mostly werent sociopaths but just want to introduce u to some shit they like
and if u leave them after years of shooting up with them they soothe their pain at u leaving the playground by having faith in the addiction to bring u back
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Post by pinkerdlu on Nov 8, 2019 17:37:11 GMT -5
Seems like a guy who cared a lot about his personal success ragequit because he died in an RPT. Sorry that you were swept up in the plot. Fyi a lot died in this rpt and not just you, but just you are publicly ragequitting. Just pointing out some obvious points here, but if the goal is collective storytelling, sometimes you gotta die. You might die after 2 days played or 50 or 100 days played but eventually the story ends. I have a damn good feeling that the people you kudos in your post aren't ragequitting. You can quit, but I personally think you are going through stages of loss and that you will eventually realize that there are more stories to tell. Hey, you're allowed to feel that way if you'd like. I'm guessing you didn't get along with one of my characters. If we're going to run around making so many assumptions.  I never said I'm Mr. Perfect. (But you're obviously missing the point.) I did care a lot about my personal success - my actual irl personality is typically more ambitious and goal-oriented. And Noose's death was shit and that rpt was a disaster. But I played A LOT of redshirts in my days. Normal guys that did normal shit, and bad guys that did zany shit and eventually died, and I was perfectly okay with it and had a lot of fun. I quit the game for a dozen other reasons, just like the countless players who have done the same in recent years. It's almost been three months and I have no urge to return, my man. I'm done playing a MUD with almost ZERO story or meaningful progression, limited replayability (despite being a sandbox??) and a dwindling playerbase with apathetic staffers. You seem to recognize the current (sad) state of the game in your other posts, but you completely ignore all of that here and it seems like you're trying to attack my integrity? I guess I'm missing the point, alas... For the record, I've had a lot of people contact me through their own fruition since I made this post - who have kudo'd me and played with one or more of my characters. They were all sympathetic and thoughtful individuals, and they usually fell into one of two categories: 1. Experienced players who agree with a lot of posts on this forum and are on the verge of quitting, but they're still having some fun here or there and they don't (yet) feel singled out by staff. 2. Relatively inexperienced players who still have a lot of the gameworld to explore and therefore most of the grievances on this forum have yet to truly (fully) affect them. Or they just have yet to recognize them for what they are. As I've already said in previous posts... there is still fun to be had for certain people. Mostly the ignorant and those with connections. And some people just have personalities where they do just fine constantly being killed by staff, ganked by publicly recognized twinks (woo, collaborative storytelling is awesome!!!) and shat on by admins. Kinda like modern day serfs. Internet feudalism. Trademarked. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2019 1:10:58 GMT -5
Sorry guys. I'm a little busy with my move. I will troll and prove how stupid you all are in a few days.
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ccp
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Post by ccp on Nov 9, 2019 3:04:16 GMT -5
Seems like a guy who cared a lot about his personal success ragequit because he died in an RPT. Sorry that you were swept up in the plot. Fyi a lot died in this rpt and not just you, but just you are publicly ragequitting. Just pointing out some obvious points here, but if the goal is collective storytelling, sometimes you gotta die. You might die after 2 days played or 50 or 100 days played but eventually the story ends. I have a damn good feeling that the people you kudos in your post aren't ragequitting. You can quit, but I personally think you are going through stages of loss and that you will eventually realize that there are more stories to tell. Hey, you're allowed to feel that way if you'd like. I'm guessing you didn't get along with one of my characters. If we're going to run around making so many assumptions. I never said I'm Mr. Perfect. (But you're obviously missing the point.) I did care a lot about my personal success - my actual irl personality is typically more ambitious and goal-oriented. And Noose's death was shit and that rpt was a disaster. But I played A LOT of redshirts in my days. Normal guys that did normal shit, and bad guys that did zany shit and eventually died, and I was perfectly okay with it and had a lot of fun. I quit the game for a dozen other reasons, just like the countless players who have done the same in recent years. It's almost been three months and I have no urge to return, my man. I'm done playing a MUD with almost ZERO story or meaningful progression, limited replayability (despite being a sandbox??) and a dwindling playerbase with apathetic staffers. You seem to recognize the current (sad) state of the game in your other posts, but you completely ignore all of that here and it seems like you're trying to attack my integrity? I guess I'm missing the point, alas... For the record, I've had a lot of people contact me through their own fruition since I made this post - who have kudo'd me and played with one or more of my characters. They were all sympathetic and thoughtful individuals, and they usually fell into one of two categories: 1. Experienced players who agree with a lot of posts on this forum and are on the verge of quitting, but they're still having some fun here or there and they don't (yet) feel singled out by staff. 2. Relatively inexperienced players who still have a lot of the gameworld to explore and therefore most of the grievances on this forum have yet to truly (fully) affect them. Or they just have yet to recognize them for what they are. As I've already said in previous posts... there is still fun to be had for certain people. Mostly the ignorant and those with connections. And some people just have personalities where they do just fine constantly being killed by staff, ganked by publicly recognized twinks (woo, collaborative storytelling is awesome!!!) and shat on by admins. Kinda like modern day serfs. Internet feudalism. Trademarked. I really don't need to have known your pc to know that your largest regret was losing him. I can see it through your tryhard ranting posts. You will find an echochamber here to whine about you being blocked from success as a Byn sergeant, but remember most byn sergeants last barely a few months. That you were sorted as you were by the sorting hat is really not that unique or special. In fact, the regret of losing a chance at success or change is a common thread shared in many ragequit posters here. If you haven't heard of the meme "the game," whereby playing it means you lose, and to participate in the game is to lose, such is the same with armageddon. If you play it you are already losing, losing hours of your time. If you do gain enjoyment from it, fine. If not, then it is best you not play. I can see how you lack satisfaction from your experience as this Noose but you also gave a bunch of heartfelt kudoses, which makes me think you actually do appreciate something about the game. The way it is now. As all your kudoses are for very recent players. In other words, if you are offended by my post, I am afraid it is only you being offended at a reflection of your own obvious and apparent feelings. |
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Post by gloryhound on Nov 9, 2019 3:50:41 GMT -5
 Armageddon is at the bureaucracy stage. Veteran players quit when they finally accept they'll never recapture that gaming experience they had when Armageddon was in an earlier stage. |
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Post by mehtastic on Nov 9, 2019 6:19:55 GMT -5
I agree with pinkerdlu's guess that ccp is salty about something pinkerdlu's character did to theirs. Show us on the doll where pinkerdlu's character stabbed yours. |
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Post by mehtastic on Nov 9, 2019 6:49:53 GMT -5
Armageddon is at the bureaucracy stage. Veteran players quit when they finally accept they'll never recapture that gaming experience they had when Armageddon was in an earlier stage. This is a visually good way to describe the past and current state of things. It's fair to say that Armageddon's first innovation that it brought to MUDs was that it solidified what an RPI essentially was. It helped set the standard for things like enforced roleplay, permadeath, and no OOC communication in the context of a MUD setting. I think Armageddon started to go over the hump around the time the Reborn project started in 2006. That is also incidentally when we started to see staff's initial ideas of metaplot for the end of the world, which were fairly unique at the time, and those were probably the last innovations the game saw. Armageddon started to see player-staff communication coalesce around the request tool, and the huge short-term spikes in players at the time probably increased staff's confidence. You don't have to know anything about organization management to know that Armageddon is in decline. Eventually, Armageddon will simply run out of players. The trend is at about -20 players per year (though I'll have more complete numbers at the end of the year), though that trend will increase as Armageddon loses more players, since more people will go elsewhere when they realize there's not many people to play with. This is actually already happening with new accounts. Not only that, but there's more game-related discussion here than on the GDB itself. What some posters here might deride as "tryhard discussion" has actually proven to be a thoughtful and reasonable critique of the game, to the point that (to put it charitably) ideas brought up here have run in parallel with ideas implemented in the game a number of times. One can reasonably say, looking at Armageddon, that innovation dies when critique, and discussion of critique, is suppressed. Without direction from players, staff additions to the game have been rudderless; they don't know what players want and end up implementing things they guess players might want. This has proven to be pretty shortsighted, overall. The new guild system simply expanded the problems the old guild system had. Certain classes are still heavily favored, and the game is becoming more of a hack-and-slash-fest. Staff see this happen and blame the players for doing the only thing they can do, instead of blaming their own game systems for encouraging that behavior. It can never be staff's fault, in staff's eyes. At least here, we agree there's some mix of staff and player responsibility for Armageddon's current state. |
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