|
Post by bangbangskeetskee on Mar 13, 2023 10:43:15 GMT -5
Genuine question, what would make you all happy? What could staff do to redeem themselves in your eyes? Genuine question, how do you redeem literal years of abuse? If they want a better community they should create one. Not to lure back the good people who rightfully called them on their bullshit and left, but because they realize it's the right thing to do. Go read pride & prejudice or something, idk. Stop putting the onus of explaining the bullshit and how to fix it on those who already had to put up with it and left because of it. Show some emotional and mental maturity and fix it yourselves, goddamn. If you can't figure out how to without us there holding your hand, THAT IS WHY WE LEFT.
Don't get me wrong here, you got done dirty. And that sucks.
But are you getting upset at staff trying to listen to the player base's feedback instead of knowing instantly what to do and unanimously believing the first thing they hear without any consideration or thought behind it, along with automatically knowing what to do in a very sensitive situation?
I understand from your point of view its very clear who mucked up and where. But it sounds at this point like you're just angry (and rightfully) beyond the point of repair. (You not you particularly. More this community at large)
|
|
|
Post by bangbangskeetskee on Mar 13, 2023 10:45:14 GMT -5
Genuine question, what would make you all happy? What could staff do to redeem themselves in your eyes? Honestly very little. All this really has done for me is proven the juice was never worth the squeeze. Proved that literal decades of gaslighting about abuses were just that, gaslighting. It's great that there's finally some transparency about it, but after quitting I realized how much happier I am without all the stress the game provides. To play the game in the way that I enjoy takes far too much time and effort. It means playing the game to an unhealthy degree which is already reason enough to quit, but knowing that on top of that staff can and have so easily abused the system is just icing on the cake. As it was a big part of my life for so long I've been following all this out of a sort of morbid curiosity, but I can't bring myself to want to play again. I hope others that continue to play are treated well by staff and treat themselves and others well. I'd be happy to see the game change for the better, but it's just not for me anymore. I think a lot of us feel this way, and no amount of apologies of wrongdoing are going to fix that, but it is nice to see that we at least weren't crazy and the shitty things done to so many players over the years were real and not just us overreacting. Obviously what was done to me is pale in comparison to what others have endured, but it was enough to make me quit over it and has given me no desire to spend my free time playing a game I no longer enjoy. That's very fair honestly
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 90
|
Post by delirium on Mar 13, 2023 13:05:16 GMT -5
Genuine question, how do you redeem literal years of abuse? If they want a better community they should create one. Not to lure back the good people who rightfully called them on their bullshit and left, but because they realize it's the right thing to do. Go read pride & prejudice or something, idk. Stop putting the onus of explaining the bullshit and how to fix it on those who already had to put up with it and left because of it. Show some emotional and mental maturity and fix it yourselves, goddamn. If you can't figure out how to without us there holding your hand, THAT IS WHY WE LEFT.
Don't get me wrong here, you got done dirty. And that sucks.
But are you getting upset at staff trying to listen to the player base's feedback instead of knowing instantly what to do and unanimously believing the first thing they hear without any consideration or thought behind it, along with automatically knowing what to do in a very sensitive situation?
I understand from your point of view its very clear who mucked up and where. But it sounds at this point like you're just angry (and rightfully) beyond the point of repair. (You not you particularly. More this community at large)
It was pointed out repeatedly for months... years even... and solutions were offered... the only reason anyone is actually listening is because the playerbase fucking revolted. Hell there were complaints for over a decade about the one staffer y'all finally fired. As Blaze was fond of saying, there were receipts. Y'all just chose the easier path of ignoring it until it blew up in your faces. So yeah, angry sums it up.
|
|
jenki
Clueless newb
Posts: 139
|
Post by jenki on Mar 13, 2023 13:16:22 GMT -5
Genuine question, what would make you all happy? What could staff do to redeem themselves in your eyes? Demonstrate a consistent multi-year track record of staff treating all players with respect.
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 90
|
Post by delirium on Mar 13, 2023 15:45:35 GMT -5
Genuine question, what would make you all happy? What could staff do to redeem themselves in your eyes? Demonstrate a consistent multi-year track record of staff treating all players with respect.
|
|
|
Post by actuallyender on Mar 13, 2023 15:56:55 GMT -5
Since I've quit I have heard things about what staff have done in character with things I worked on with my previous characters. Basically all my sandcastles got kicked over. The thing I'd spent the last year working on was repackaged and auctioned off as a distraction from the last time the GDB was a in a big uproar. Staff did not reach out to me to ask me if this was ok, or for any input on how it could go. Which is fine, they made it clear our stories belong to them, but again only made me feel I made the right decision in leaving. I don't want to write stories for staff, I want to write them for me. And again more recently I found out they literally brought back another of my PCs and someone is puppetting him around. And again, I was not consulted or asked if I was ok with that, because staff has made it clear the stories we write in Armageddon are not ours.
So they can apologize all they like, but the game is not a collaborative story. That is the game I want, and it's been made clear to me, that is just not what Armageddon is.
And I get it, I had quit. They were under no obligation to reach out to me to ask my permission, but come on, the first one really felt targeted. Shabago even made a bait post that felt like he was trying to get me to respond, to which I didn't at the time. To have it be so public that he was shitting on my efforts was pretty feelsbadman.jpg.
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 90
|
Post by delirium on Mar 13, 2023 16:14:55 GMT -5
It's almost like Shabago was pissed at us for not liking his good buddy, old pal, Shalooonsh.
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on Mar 13, 2023 19:43:08 GMT -5
Genuine question, what would make you all happy? What could staff do to redeem themselves in your eyes? remove all staff and hand over the reins to someone else. halaster's apology doesn't make sense. he was the southern admin team but didn't notice the effects of an extremely influential character? no one else on staff did either, let alone anyone southern admin team, apparently. there are twenty people on staff. no one else noticed this and raised an issue? how far is your head up your ass to not see this kind of thing. this behavior with resource PCs is nothing new. as i pointed out before this fiasco, halaster did the same 15-20 years ago and never bothered to address it. why would i expect a guy who abused his position to have any integrity when it comes to policing other staff members i posted this four years ago. it still continues and is more relevant than ever. i genuinely don't get how there's supposed to be any trust or credibility when the following cycle has been going on for twenty years: *asshole old staffer a gets kicked off* players: staffer a sucked, he screwed us over, why should we trust you guys? staffer b: we're different, we're moving in a positive direction, we don't do shit like that anymore. *staffer b voluntarily leaves staff after years of player complaints and doing things they said never happened* you get two types of players left over-- the in-denial abused wife: he said he's gonna change, it's different this time and the new girlfriend: things weren't that bad, all his ex's just made it up or were asking for it and if it does happen i deserved it. there is no redemption. the staff culture has always been rotten and continues to be rotten. edit: there is zero reason why shalooonsh shouldn't be banned from the game. lipping off to nessalin is ban-worthy but abusing a staff position and being a sexual predator is something that is just supposed to be looked over? come on.
|
|
|
Post by paladont on Mar 13, 2023 23:02:53 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong here, you got done dirty. And that sucks.
But are you getting upset at staff trying to listen to the player base's feedback instead of knowing instantly what to do and unanimously believing the first thing they hear without any consideration or thought behind it, along with automatically knowing what to do in a very sensitive situation?
I understand from your point of view its very clear who mucked up and where. But it sounds at this point like you're just angry (and rightfully) beyond the point of repair. (You not you particularly. More this community at large)
No. That's the short answer you get when you pack five concepts in one question. Should they have been able to conclude what to do without asking for the playerbase's feedback? Yes. Yes they should have. It's not 'instant' and there's no expectation of 'unanimous believing' 'without consideration or thoughts' nor is the process 'automatic'.
|
|
bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
|
Post by bebop on Mar 13, 2023 23:30:04 GMT -5
Brokkr posting snippets of my complaint to deflect blame on a forum I can't even defend. Doing this hours after staff taking some accountability two weeks later. Wow. Classy. I'm exhausted. My dad in law is in town for the week. I'm not dealing with this right now. I'll probably post my complaint trail at some point since staff wants to misrepresent it as a personal account instead of what it was which was incredibly similar to what was posted here. It's just disappointing. Some accountability was a step in the right direction. Posting this is backwards. And if they want to have a convo with me they could and could have, but I guess we're just going to toss comments at each other over the fence. Doesn't matter at this point I guess.
|
|
bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
|
Post by bebop on Mar 13, 2023 23:36:46 GMT -5
Couldn't apologize in two weeks but can undermine the apology by deflecting blame onto me in hours.
|
|
|
Post by paladont on Mar 13, 2023 23:47:40 GMT -5
Couldn't apologize in two weeks but can undermine the apology by deflecting blame onto me in hours. Four weeks. It was helpfully noted that the initial complaint was filed on Feb 14th. Brokkr's post includes such delightful insights as Amusingly, if you scroll to the first post in this thread, that was posted on... February 24th. It seems Shadowboard postings get immediate response and consideration. I'm not sure what he hoped to add to the conversation, but it doesn't make any position staff have taken over the last month any stronger. He admits responses were sent regarding, conversations were had but no 'formal talks' happened until it blew up in their face. This whole process has been an exercise in getting a empathetically challenged bureaucracy to take infantile steps forward towards community development. It leaves me with no confidence they will be capable of handling anything that comes up in the future without more hand-holding.
|
|
ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 113
|
Post by ask on Mar 13, 2023 23:54:22 GMT -5
It's almost like Shabago was pissed at us for not liking his good buddy, old pal, Shalooonsh. those who cheat together stick together.
|
|
bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 106
|
Post by bebop on Mar 13, 2023 23:55:16 GMT -5
Here are the links to the request. As I said my dad in law is coming into town so I won't be focusing on this for the next week.. People can make up their own minds as to whether to not this did not detail sexual harassment, because I think the evidence speaks for itself. I think it's obvious why I would also be freaked out about further retaliation or that other players would be harassed and put at risk if nothing was done which is why I came forward - because I was really concerned if I didn't I'd be complicit in a way that could lead to others being harassed in and out of game. I'm not going to take much time to defend myself or anything of that nature. Request Part One cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208405677549420544/1085061859729756200/Request_Part_One.pdfRequest Part Two cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/208405677549420544/1085061895326814349/Request_Part_Two.pdfI'd really rather my words not be misrepresented. I'm far from perfect, but I was trying to resolve the issue and the more I thought on it, or people came to me talking about their experiences post Altair the more I realized something was extremely wrong. I still feel complete transparency and exposing this was/is the only way for the culture to truly repair to a point this never happens to someone else in this community again. Make your own judgements about how it was handled. Really don't know why we couldn't just stop at an apology and some accountability but had to take it a step forward onto deflecting onto me. Just feels like I'm being harassed all over again to be honest, and I just really don't think I deserved that.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,337
|
Post by mehtastic on Mar 14, 2023 3:45:24 GMT -5
You were clear enough, Bebop. They're just looking for a scapegoat, as they do.
|
|