kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on May 28, 2019 1:18:23 GMT -5
How the actual shit is it possible to get misses? Is it possible around Allanak? I haven't even passed the basic skills and it's already getting hard for me.
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Post by Amos's Boots on May 28, 2019 4:55:14 GMT -5
How the actual shit is it possible to get misses? Is it possible around Allanak? I haven't even passed the basic skills and it's already getting hard for me. Hawks. Vulture. Jozhal. Barakhan lizards and snakes. Those are about the top options for high agility NPCs around allanak that won't completely rape you. The more youre spam-attacking something, the higher vs. creature hidden skill you get against it so you need to be super efficient with your twinking if you want to get above apprentice weapon skills off of beasties around allanak. Once you get more buff, spiders become an option but they are a huge skill gate and kill people rapidly. You might think you can take them because you managed to take out a low-roll spider but you'll eventually see them with dwarf-levels of strength and the agility of an elf. Plus they are rumored to have an insta-kill subdue code if you're a bad rider and you fall off your mount a lot. . But I've never confirmed this. I know anakore have that instakill code for certain though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 5:19:38 GMT -5
The tier 1 guilds (raider, enforcer,and fighter) have much less room for growth, especially if you have good stats. Unless you really know what you are doing and are doing it pretty intensely, you might get stuck in jman weapon skills.
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kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on May 28, 2019 6:29:55 GMT -5
This seems like a huge mess, damn, I'm going back to doing merchants only.
Something tells me a small company that sells training services would go far, or does everyone already meta and use the Byn for this. I've seen slight references to the usage of the Byn just for sparring practice many times here, but I always wondered how this worked since it seems to me like most Bynners ought to end up dead if untrained. If someone can spoil this minor thing, are you allowed to just make excuses for all but the safest contracts (I think I've read this recommended in some old guide).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 8:55:53 GMT -5
Why would using Byn for training be considered Meta? Merchant and Noble houses would sometimes pay Byn for their employees to join Byn strictly for training. Nobody in Byn "has" to join the contract. I mean you wont stay there long, if you're trained and useful enough, but clearly choosing not to help the team with dangerous contracts. But if it isnt too emotionally in your face, then why not? They're not paying you.
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jenki
Clueless newb
Posts: 156
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Post by jenki on May 28, 2019 9:49:42 GMT -5
Jozhals are probably the best thing around Allanak. There are one or two turaals in the tablelands not far from the base of the shield wall. IF someone is willing to invest some money and time to buy a silt skimmer and learn to pilot it, silt striders have a fairly high agility and may be good for training at higher skill levels. They do hide so scan is needed to find them.
Training in the dark (without having the blind fighting skill) might be a good way to get more misses at higher levels.
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kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on May 28, 2019 9:57:39 GMT -5
Is it not that training in the dark only trains blind fighting and nothing else?
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kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on May 28, 2019 9:58:57 GMT -5
Why would using Byn for training be considered Meta? Merchant and Noble houses would sometimes pay Byn for their employees to join Byn strictly for training. Nobody in Byn "has" to join the contract. I mean you wont stay there long, if you're trained and useful enough, but clearly choosing not to help the team with dangerous contracts. But if it isnt too emotionally in your face, then why not? They're not paying you. That's reasonable enough, I just assumed it'd be seen as something twinkish to do/would be frowned upon.
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Post by lechuck on May 28, 2019 10:36:07 GMT -5
All newbies get nudged firmly towards the Byn because it's a pretty good introduction to the coded aspects of the game, particularly combat and travel. The roleplay is usually trash tier but that's pretty much a given when you've got a clan full of newbies, which also means there are very low expectations of players in the Byn. You can easily get away with being offline for most contracts, especially if you aren't trying to carve out a future as sergeant. If you absolutely never participate in anything, they might not be interested in keeping you as a trooper, but I've only heard of that happening in cases where someone was barely active throughout the first year. Runners won't really get kicked out unless they break one of the very few real rules, or do something truly retarded like dickslapping a noble, but you could be denied the stripe if they barely know you after a year.
While the Byn is a good introduction to combat, it's not a particularly effective way to train beyond the point of 'okay.' Even if you don't have ambitions of actually maxing out your combat skills (almost nobody really does that), you'll still feel the effects of the combat code's shortcomings in the Byn. Unless the stars align for you and there's an elf heavy-combat character with high agility and solid skills who's around during your playtimes and prefers to spar with you over all the other dudes tugging at his sleeve for the same reason, which is a luxury I've never personally experienced (has there been a long-lived Byn elf since Sharak?), your combat skills - aside from parry and shield which are easily maxed - will stagnate around the midway point, aka the plateau.
If you're not trying to do something special like running a raiding crew or being the Guild hitman, you probably don't need to care about getting any better than the plateau. You'll be slaughtering animals with ease, capable of safely hunting anything except the actual megafauna (mekillots, silt horrors, etc.), and you'll trounce any new characters in a fight. But you'll be one of scores of plateaued fighters in the game and you're not going to impress the dozen or so characters knocking about at any given time whose players know how to defeat the plateau and actually build a powerful character. And those are typically the players with the heaviest involvement in those aspects of roleplay where you have a reason to care how good your character is at fighting, so you're very likely to cross paths with them if you're into plots, which I expect most players would say that they are.
The Byn is still likely to be the best clan for sparring in Allanak, though, just because the militia is basically the same except with a quarter of the players, the merchant houses no longer have hunting divisions, and the noble house guard clans have been closed indefinitely. So, if you want to pass the plateau and you aren't blessed with a buddy who plays a twinked-up fighter, you have to start learning some absurd strategies to do it the rogue way. I call it the rogue way because you'll have to do things that everyone knows you shouldn't do, staff will smack you in the back of the head if they see you do it, yet everyone knows that people do it.
I was actually gonna write a guide on training without sparring, but I haven't played since they added the "always a small chance to dodge" thing so I don't know how that might have affected everything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 10:48:37 GMT -5
This seems like a huge mess, damn, I'm going back to doing merchants only. Something tells me a small company that sells training services would go far, or does everyone already meta and use the Byn for this. I've seen slight references to the usage of the Byn just for sparring practice many times here, but I always wondered how this worked since it seems to me like most Bynners ought to end up dead if untrained. If someone can spoil this minor thing, are you allowed to just make excuses for all but the safest contracts (I think I've read this recommended in some old guide). The byn docs specifically disallow contracts to train non members. You either have to join or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 11:00:52 GMT -5
While the Byn is a good introduction to combat, it's not a particularly effective way to train beyond the point of 'okay.' Even if you don't have ambitions of actually maxing out your combat skills (almost nobody really does that), you'll still feel the effects of the combat code's shortcomings in the Byn. Unless the stars align for you and there's an elf heavy-combat character with high agility and solid skills who's around during your playtimes and prefers to spar with you over all the other dudes tugging at his sleeve for the same reason, which is a luxury I've never personally experienced (has there been a long-lived Byn elf since Sharak?), your combat skills - aside from parry and shield which are easily maxed - will stagnate around the midway point, aka the plateau.
Agreed.
Board and one or two other elves have filled this ubersparring dummy role, but one elf doesnt feed the whole clan. They do set a very high standard for accuracy in the clan. Unless you can rp regular access, the uberelf will just help you stagnate your weapon skills. One fight a real day on a willing victim doesnt cut it, guys.
For what its worth, the elf fighter or enforcer has to be in the 30-50 days played region before they are useful for this purpose.
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kannot
Clueless newb
Posts: 126
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Post by kannot on May 28, 2019 11:01:04 GMT -5
yea yea, when I said 'references to the Byn for sparring' the authors were saying "join it, get trained, get the fuck out of there".
ALso, lechuck, you mean to say you can make a guide keeping in mind the player 2 player offdef to offdef comparison to determine gain chances? I thought that addition basically killed the possibility of solo-leveling. I remember reading one of the objectives was revealed to be to increase the relative efficacy of pvp sparring.
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Post by lechuck on May 28, 2019 11:18:16 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure the off/def relativity stuff doesn't reduce the chance to zero until you're already at the point where the target can't dodge you anyway. If something can dodge you, you can gain on it (or could, before they added that feature where there's always some small chance to dodge), but the actual chance will reflect how hard it is for the target to dodge you. If you're lucky to get one dodge at all, it's probably a very small chance to gain. I don't think it has fully rendered solo training futile, it has mostly just ruled out stuff like blindfighting against snakes all the way to master. We don't know what the numbers are, but I had a combat character after that feature was implemented and it wasn't really noticeable because I stopped missing anyway which means I was able to gain just fine up until that point. But yeah, it means you can't drag a tandu into some dark cave and molest it all the way to the skillcap. This change made it harder to solo train in the sense that the really cheap tricks won't work anymore, and some targets may offer a reduced chance to gain once misses become scarce against them. If something can dodge you enough to where it's even worth your time, it's got enough defense that it isn't a big concern. By all accounts, this feature specifically targets blindfighting against harmless targets because there's always a guaranteed chance to miss something you can't see no matter what your skills are. Any other consequences are probably incidental.
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Post by shakes on May 28, 2019 14:08:45 GMT -5
---That's reasonable enough, I just assumed it'd be seen as something twinkish to do/would be frowned upon. The entire Byn setup is a twinkish thing designed to help newbies and to teach people some combat skills in a safer environment. It's one of those things where staff sets up a ridiculous, twinky situation as part of the canon and lore, but if you're outside fightin' a turaal with a skinning knife you end up skill locked. I'm not great at raising weapon skills. I often end up at high apprentice or journeyman and just stuck there.
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Post by pinkerdlu on May 30, 2019 16:13:49 GMT -5
The sad thing is great guides have been produced, only for staff to nerf certain aspects of the code related to the guide soon after. Which is good and bad. I'm sure the 'a miss is always possible' recent addition/bit is because of us harping about the skill gain code for so long. It's crazy how much progression has been made on the gdb as to what they're willing to let people discuss re: code. It was never like this before. Partly because of us and partly because of how much the playerbase has shrunk...
But there are still great threads on here that cover all you need to know about the codebase for mundanes. This thread isn't necessary at all but oh well I shouldn't complain, it's always nice to see a bit of life on here.
Go read all of sirra's posts. And delerak and procrastination's posts. You'll read everything you need to know about effectively skilling up -and- playing a mundane. If that doesn't answer all your questions, you either aren't cut out to play a skilled mundane or you lack patience.
P.S. It's not all that it's cut out to be. Everyone will watch you closer, magickers will zone in on you and staffers will be out to kill you, unless you conform and join one of the guilds that they baby and try to usher players into constantly, to push forward their own plots. Because they don't really care about you or your fun. It's all a flip of a coin. But you do you.
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