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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 7, 2019 18:47:25 GMT -5
That gives me hope. But it's not a guide.  What should my stats look like?You want them all to be high. Come on.If you don't have at least two EG+, just suicide and reroll. (Here's the part where I pretend I'm joking, and you should stick with it, kid. It gets better. Well this isn't the GDB. Fact: It gets better, but only until you run into someone with great stats that 'stuck with it' too. Also, it's been proven that the higher a character's stats, the less stupid mistakes people make to stay alive.) Anything constructive at all?The art to suiciding perhaps deserves a guide in its own right. But don't prioritize your stats, just select random and hope for the best. All your stats are important, but Strength -> Agility -> Endurance -> Wisdom is roughly the order in which my dick gets hardest at seeing an exceptional or above. You want around 110+ hitpoints or stun, whatever the case. Below that, and you're meat. The difference between 1-2 lucky hits and 3-4 lucky hits is surprisingly vast. Without great stats, you can still do a lot of damage as a ranger. A hideous amount, actually, with smarts and poison. Afterall, even a warrior can get middling stats, someday branch advanced, carry a shield, and be a respectable badass. However, a ranger needs the extra help when going up against warriors, and what's the point of twinking a ranger if it's not to beat up warriors in the sparring circle? I can't think of any other reason! But seriously, if you're honest with yourself that your future goal isn't to beat up twinked warriors inside the sparring circle - and I mean it - or you have no intention of ever sparring other people with the intent of looking like a badass, then anything which manages Good/Very Good and up, in whatever combination, will be perfectly fine. And one shitty stat can be compensated for, someday, with a ring. If you get to the point where a stat is the only thing holding you back that is (and that's a farther away day than you realize). |
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Post by jcarter on Feb 7, 2019 19:13:55 GMT -5
lol, arm's combat code will never see a revamp. there is no one on staff competent enough to come up with a system, and they are too proud to use an outside source. hence why the only actual solution that might ever exist is to let players just build their characters to the meta rather than do the suicide dance for it. also, i'm still waiting on my2sids to post the actual strength breakpoint. i can see that dope logged in and reading this thread. I'm a dope for checking a thread that I was quoted in and responded to? Hence why I posted in the first place, here. Does that make you a dope for checking out my account activity? Man, you lack self-awareness. Your interest in me is a little creepy, too. . no, you're a dope because you're an idiot that posts vapid statements and can't back up them up with anything. it's not a one-off thing, you've always been a dope. just a seriously empty-headed person that blurts things out without thought or analysis. your sickest burns resolve around 'hnngh no u' and projecting wayyyy too hard. example: you complain about me posting too fast...five minutes after I make the post. now you're trying to go 'no ur the dope' because i notice your name at the 'who's logged in' bottom of the main site? you really do have the mind of a child. i have an interest in you? lol, more projection. last i checked these are the boards -i- run. you've got multiple Arm boards and discords to fuck around in, yet you still come back here to me and choose to post after me in the thread. if you don't like it, you're free to show me what-for and fuck-off  and speaking of creepy interest, if i recall correctly you were the one sending me pictures of handwritten letters on your grandma's doylie-covered kitchen table you wrote about Arm over Christmas break for god knows what reason. yeah ok buffalo bill, i'm the weirdo here, keep on projecting. go back to sinking a few hundred hours into exploring your budding sexuality as a buxom house maid in arm, lmao. lol you haven't crunched shit and it shows with another vapid statement. your 'after this point more strength isn't needed' range is as useless as your vapid insights of "using poison and recruiting friends will help you PK!". good-very good human strength is 30% of the range. the idea that there's an need vs want breakpoint is pulled from your ass that isn't backed up by stats. the higher end of the strength spectrum sees more returns per increase than the lower end, full stop. |
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Post by lechuck on Feb 7, 2019 19:16:09 GMT -5
Okay, hypothetically. I roll out of chargen ... the scar adding guy and I land in the newbie equipment area in say ... Luir's. I hold my breath and I type "sco". average strength, extremely good agility, good endurance, below average wisdom. And I'm looking at that average strength and thinking "no" but it's an incredibly cool concept that I'm just shocked as hell I got past the approval process. What realistically can I do, gameplay wise, to mitigate that shit strength? Is combat an important part of the character concept? If yes, is killing PCs an important part of that? If yes, do you expect to have access to the high-end poisons or master backstab? If you don't expect to have a need to win PvP fights, strength isn't crucial. Like you could be a hunter just fine, any animal that normal people hunt on their own can be killed without high strength. You could be a soldier just fine because soldiers never really do anything except kill NPCs. But if you're trying to be an assassin, a raider, a territorial tribal or anything like that, those stats will ensure that you die the first time someone with a bit of skill and better stats decides to put you to the test. Or at least you'll be unable to actually kill them even if you win the skill fight, and they'll calmly ride away and come back when their skills are higher and kill you. Poisons and backstab are the only mundane methods that can realistically beat high strength without having it yourself. When you're sporting average strength and they've got, say, exceptional, the amount of combat skill you'd need to have over them is so big that it doesn't matter because noone goes looking for PvP before they're at a certain level. If you have access to peraine, you can technically beat anyone, but it's never a sure thing because they can resist the poison or the paralysis might break on the next hit. Master backstab can do the job, but using it without high strength is a big risk because if you get a low damage roll and only take off half of their health, they have all the time in the world to draw their weapons and fight back. But if winning in PvP is not something you're concerned about, you can pretty much ignore your stats entirely because most NPCs that anyone has any reason to fight alone are so easy that just maxing out your parry skill is enough to beat them effortlessly, and if you're in a group, it doesn't matter how you perform personally. Nothing will truly mitigate the disadvantage of average strength. It's just a disadvantage that you never get over. Most of the combat characters who engage in PvP will have high strength because those types of players know that you need it, so if you're trying to be the latest Guild backstabber and you don't have it, some joker who does will show you what's what. Technically, if you lived long enough to get your skills absurdly high, you can beat newer characters with better stats; but with the recent changes to skillgains, I strongly suspect that getting your combat skills really high has become effectively impossible, and when everyone plateaus around the same point, stats and gimmicks are all that matter. |
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Post by psyxypher on Feb 7, 2019 19:24:58 GMT -5
You know, I always thought my GM was a dick for not letting us rearrange the stats we rolled around, but unlike in Arm, he at least lets us roll our stats before we put the time and effort into making our character...
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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 7, 2019 19:38:37 GMT -5
Definitely an interesting concept.
Let players roll their stats before they even app in.
Maybe you still get shitty stats but at least your 'the hulking, muscled man' doesn't have below average strength.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 7, 2019 19:43:00 GMT -5
because i actually back up my statements with evidence, here's proof that returns on strength kick into overdrive at higher levels.
these are the stats derived from strength.
/* strength apply */
/* to_dam, carry_w, bend_break */
struct str_app_type str_app[101] = {
{0, 110, 2},
{0, 115, 3},
{0, 117, 4}, /* 12 */
{0, 120, 6},
{0, 125, 9},
{1, 140, 12}, /* 15 */
{1, 155, 18},
{2, 170, 24},
{3, 195, 32}, /* 18 */
{4, 230, 40},
{5, 290, 48},
{6, 380, 56}, /* 21 */
{7, 430, 64},
{8, 500, 72},
{9, 640, 80}, /* 24 */
10-19 is the human range. notice how from the middle to the top half of the range, you go to_dam goes from 1 to 4. in the bottom half, it's from 0 to 1. and after that, it goes up for every point. carry weight shoots up.
todam increases a shit ton of skills. climbing? you get bonuses from it.
// being stronger makes it easier to climb
percent += str_app[GET_STR(mover)].todam;
qroomlogf(QUIET_CALC, ch->in_room, "+ strength todam = %d", percent);
archery damage gets a bonus from it.
/* strength bonus, limited str */
if (GET_STR(ch) > bow->obj_flags.value[1] + 1)
dam += str_app[bow->obj_flags.value[1]].todam;
backstab damage gets a bonus from it.
if (ch->skills[SKILL_BACKSTAB])
dam *= (2 + (ch->skills[SKILL_BACKSTAB]->learned / 7));
else
dam *= 2;
dam += str_app[GET_STR(ch)].todam;
strength influences charge, both offensively and defensively
/* victim has knowledge of how to trample, they can try to
* anticipate it and pull off the rider trampling them */
if (tar_ch->skills[SKILL_CHARGE]) {
dodge = number(1, tar_ch->skills[SKILL_CHARGE]->learned);
if (affected_by_spell(ch, PSI_MINDWIPE))
dodge -= 25;
if ((dodge - chance) > 25) {
act("$N avoids your charge and pulls you off of $r!", FALSE, ch, 0, tar_ch,
TO_CHAR);
act("$n charges at you, but you pull $m off of $r instead!", FALSE, ch, 0, tar_ch,
TO_VICT);
act("$n charges at $N but is pulled off of $r instead.", FALSE, ch, 0, tar_ch,
TO_ROOM);
set_char_position(ch, POSITION_SITTING);
ch->specials.riding = (CHAR_DATA *) 0;
generic_damage(ch, MAX(str_app[GET_STR(ch)].todam, str_app[GET_STR(tar_ch)].todam), 0, 0,
MAX(str_app[GET_STR(ch)].todam, str_app[GET_STR(tar_ch)].todam));
if (!number(0, 4))
gain_skill(ch, SKILL_CHARGE, 2);
return;
}
}
/* Super easy to charge sleeping losers */
if (GET_POS(tar_ch) <= POSITION_SLEEPING) {
dodge = 0;
random = 0;
} else {
random = number(1, 100);
}
/* Rolled a successful charge that's higher than opp's charge roll */
if ((chance > dodge) && (chance > random)) {
int dambonus = str_app[GET_STR(mount)].todam
* ch->skills[SKILL_CHARGE]->learned / 100;
int dam = dice(race[(int) GET_RACE(mount)].attack->damdice,
race[(int) GET_RACE(mount)].attack->damsize)
+ str_app[GET_STR(mount)].todam;
etwo scales off of todam.
dam += str_app[GET_STR(ch)].todam;
if( diffport && prev_dam != dam)
qroomlogf(QUIET_COMBAT, ch->in_room, "Plus strength: %d", dam);
prev_dam = dam;
// plus half str bonus if using etwo
wp_pri = get_weapon(ch, &n);
if( n == ETWO )
dam += str_app[GET_STR(ch)].todam / 2;
if( diffport && prev_dam != dam)
qroomlogf(QUIET_COMBAT, ch->in_room, "Plus Etwo: %d", dam);
prev_dam = dam;
// two handed skill can add skill% worth of str bonus
if( n == ETWO && has_skill(ch, SKILL_TWO_HANDED))
dam += str_app[GET_STR(ch)].todam * get_skill_percentage(ch, SKILL_TWO_HANDED) / 100;
the list goes on and on. things don't directly scale off of strength, it scales off of todam which is derived from it. the bigger you go, the bigger the returns.
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Post by lyse on Feb 7, 2019 19:47:43 GMT -5
Arm staff....man...fix this shit!
Lol strength affects charge too.
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Post by shakes on Feb 7, 2019 20:04:34 GMT -5
I have always thought agility was your climb! No wonder my AI pickpockets always fell!
And archery? I thought it just let you pull better bows, not that it flat out gave you a damage bonus.
In any guide for desert survival for agility-prioritized characters I'd be off my game because of that. All of those other things you need to be able to do to do all those other things to survive either someone else trying to gank you for fun or trying to survive after you failed an attempt on someone else.
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Post by psyxypher on Feb 7, 2019 20:08:24 GMT -5
I'm very sure the Strength issue could be remedied in part by having damage scale the same way D&D 3.5 does. So 18 Strength will still grant you +4 to damage, but 16 would give you +3, 14 +2.... The way it currently works is highly reminiscent of older D&D where if your stat wasn't exceptional, it was pretty much crap.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,516 
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Post by Jeshin on Feb 7, 2019 20:09:48 GMT -5
Easiest possible fix.
1 - All character roll good-very good in every stat for their race automatically
2 - Higher karma can bump it up or whatever. I know there was or is an existing system to get skill or stat raises or whatever.
This requires the least amount of code change to my knowledge. Provides a consistently playable character across all races. Rewards karma players.
Why?
If Armageddon is trying to promote roleplay over all else. If their justification for certain things is RP and realism. Then remove the most game-y / hack and slash element the random stat gen that feeds into a bunch of retrograde game mechanics.
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Post by jcarter on Feb 7, 2019 20:17:48 GMT -5
I have always thought agility was your climb! No wonder my AI pickpockets always fell! And archery? I thought it just let you pull better bows, not that it flat out gave you a damage bonus. In any guide for desert survival for agility-prioritized characters I'd be off my game because of that. All of those other things you need to be able to do to do all those other things to survive either someone else trying to gank you for fun or trying to survive after you failed an attempt on someone else. agility does give a bonus to climb. it's based off react. and just like strength, it scales in a retarded fashion. the difference between 15 vs 18 agility is way bigger than 9 vs 15. /* agility apply */
/* react, stealth_manip, carry number, missile bonus c_delay */
struct agl_app_type agl_app[101] = {
{0, 0, 5, 0, 4}, /* 9 */
{0, 0, 5, 0, 4},
{0, 0, 6, 0, 3},
{0, 0, 6, 0, 3}, /* 12 */
{0, 5, 7, 0, 3},
{0, 5, 7, 0, 3},
{0, 5, 8, 5, 3}, /* 15 */
{5, 10, 8, 5, 2},
{5, 15, 8, 5, 2},
{5, 20, 9, 10, 2}, /* 18 */
{10, 25, 9, 10, 2},
the 'react' stat gives bonuses to climb, parry, offense and defense. but the bonuses given are minor when proportioned against the rolls and stats that are occurring in the background. |
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Post by pinkerdlu on Feb 7, 2019 20:18:41 GMT -5
Easiest possible fix.
Find this table, nerf the higher values.
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Post by shakes on Feb 7, 2019 20:34:02 GMT -5
I would want some sort of moderated change ... I get such a thrill when I first roll out of chargen and I DID get lucky with some epic stats. I don't want to lose that feeling.
But those stats do need to be somewhat balanced with the rest of the game. Every character should be viable in at least SOME way. You're not strong? It's cool. You're agile as fuck. Or you're old and broken down? No problem. You're wise as all get out.
That's where these low magic settings seem to suffer. You're either Conan, or you're shit.
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Post by lyse on Feb 7, 2019 20:52:26 GMT -5
That's where these low magic settings seem to suffer. You're either Conan, or you're shit. No. The problem with the game is they expect you to want to play hum-drum slice of life shit. When the code itself allows you to play superheroes if you get really lucky. Then they get mad when you want to go out at do super hero type shit. The very heart of the game is a fucking superhero game. It’s like letting someone drive a Lamborghini for a year, then saying here’s the keys to this Chevy Malibu. Try to obey the traffic laws, oh yeah and don’t ever want to drive a Lamborghini again! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 21:07:04 GMT -5
I would need more information, Shakes.
What is the guild/subguild and how old are you.
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