A warrior may consider himself a badass in 20 days, if he twinks it to hell and back. A mage can do in 5.. A warrior still needs others to accomplish incredible feats as long as that feat doesn't include killing creatures. A mage, played carefully, can do that and more, then some more, then much more.
People of power, folks who want to move stuff in game prefer mages as accomplices. All mundane classes become secondary. They get forced to watch others play. I remember an HRPT, where staff, for some reason, summoned creatures with lightning shield. And it was in Allanak, so nearly noone had 40 arrows with him. It was pointless. If mundanes attacked the creatures, they died. They were forced to hold back, awaiting the glorious mages.
Every single RPT and HRPT belonged to mages as heroes, villains and even pawns leaving no role for mundanes for quite some time.
Don't get me wrong, during those times nearly all my characters were gemmed mages. It was too easy with a huge outcome. But I still don't like it. So we either;
a) Increase the amount of distrust towards mages tenfold, limit them to Oash and each other, maybe one desert tribe in addition. Do not allow even templars to have a mage pet. Then they'll max out their spells and still do unsuitable and unrealistic stuff to "have fun". Sitting in temples isn't fun.
b) Lower their power; which's the current situation.
There were definite problems with mages, but the game is so much poorer without them. And I say "without them" because they effectively no longer exist, someone isn't really a mage if they're just a warrior with a few buff spells or whatever. I wouldn't say their power has necessarily been lowered, because you can do some patently absurd shit now like buffing your human to mul strength and elf agility with a character that also has full-fledged combat skills; but the entire magickal aspect of Zalanthas was changed from a fundamental feature of the setting to an afterthought that barely bears mention. If someone's an elementalist now, it almost doesn't matter because they're only ever gonna use it in situations where the social ramifications of magick are irrelevant. They'll have a full suite of mundane skills to rely on at all other times, and magick has just become a kind of "+5 power when nobody is looking" thing.
I have no idea why staff never changed the ease of training spells. It should have been trivial to do. Increase timers so you can't fully branch out in a week. Put limitations on what gives skillgains so you actually have to use your spells for real instead of sitting in a temple endlessly practicing fireball; you can't increase backstab by skinning even though that makes at least as much sense as training the aim and force of your proverbial fireball by fake-casting it into thin air. Hell, even remove the temples altogether so that being a mage is no longer a government-sanctioned thing. That would have been easy to accomplish through a simple in-game plot--a gemmed uprising is a lot more interesting than 20 Years a Githslayer.
One of their reasons for the change to elementalists was that they didn't like that mages don't have many mundane skills. I never saw the problem with that. Simply say that mages manifest young, and in order for their element to fully manifest in a person, it requires that they train and hone their attunement. By the time you manifest, you might have learned a few skills (your subguild) but you can't focus on magick and simultaneously develop a full-fledged profession on the side. For those who try to suppress their elementalism, offer the magick subguilds so the whole spectrum is covered. Why is it more realistic that nobody can devote their lives to magick? Why should "side-dish magick" be the only option?
I never played mages much so I'm not speaking out of self-interest, but the game had a lot more depth back when mages were an actual thing. The problems with them (their ease of maxing out) should be easy to fix. Rampant, world-destroying magick is literally the basis of the setting, so neutering it in such an abrupt and hamfisted way is a big loss. For better or worse, the vast majority of notable events - not just RPTs but legendary characters and their actions - were possible only because of the original design of elementalists and sorcerers. This is now a thing of the past and I can't think of very many remarkable deeds or legendary characters since then. Magick was a hugely important dynamic in the game, and while there were good reasons to dislike it on an OOC level, those reasons can be addressed without slicing off a large piece of what made Armageddon what it was.
When you think about it, they really have removed or severely suppressed quite a lot of what defines Zalanthas in recent years: desert tribes, city-state warfare and magick. Some of it was removed with the right intentions, i.e. increased focus on the more populated parts of the game, but the expected results have been absent. Yeah, mages used to dominate HRPTs a bit... but now we just don't have HRPTs. Yeah, Tuluk and tribes diluted the playerbase and staff... but Allanak has not been busier or more plot-rich after the closing of Tuluk and 75% of the tribes. If they had done what they purported to do, it would have been easier to stomach; but without that payoff, this culling of content has simply diminished the game. It's like cancelling dessert with a promise of increased portion size and then not actually delivering that.
Last Edit: Nov 10, 2018 15:41:42 GMT -5 by lechuck
psyxypher: Not even a full crafter. It's my subguild.
Mar 26, 2020 20:27:52 GMT -5
vex: Tbh, all crafting subs are good for, is eliminating coins as an issue. I'm happy to have them, if it comes as a part of my class/guild, or its an add on to a sub I want for other reasons (like, Outlaw sub), but add little, other than easy money.
Mar 26, 2020 21:53:55 GMT -5
vex: Even main class crafters, almost never, ever, really stand out because of their crafts, even when they're trying REALLY hard, to make super amazing stuff.
Mar 26, 2020 21:55:25 GMT -5
vex: Only crafters who are, like... plot significant, or get lasting recognition, are the precious few, who actually get staff benevolence, to make a new booze, or create a room, or get a special doodad that normally, are off limits to pc crafting.
Mar 26, 2020 21:56:20 GMT -5
vex: Nobody gives a shit, about pretty boy crafter #113, who makes what is totally not a ripoff of Links Master Sword, or how much money he has, because nobody cares about money.
Mar 26, 2020 21:57:39 GMT -5
vex: If you're master assassin w/maxed backstab? Or master pick pocket, or master ANYTHING else, people will take note of you at the least.
Mar 26, 2020 21:58:27 GMT -5
vex: If you can make a fancy sword? No one cares, because it'll get garbage stats, compared to that old school sword the vets/staff know has better stats, and everyone uses.
Mar 26, 2020 21:59:12 GMT -5
vex: Like that crimson spear that is just, completely, ridiculously powerful, that there is literally no reason to use anything else, if you're high str/skilled for piercing.
Mar 26, 2020 22:00:01 GMT -5
vex: Everyone will use that, instead of your much cooler designed spear, because the boring old warspear deals 3x the damage. Thats why being a custom crafter is a joke, at least in arm.
Mar 26, 2020 22:01:00 GMT -5
vex: Maybe not arm does it better, idk. I should probably try it, but it sounds like all the shit wrong with arm concentrated, without any of the new features.
Mar 26, 2020 22:03:47 GMT -5
vex: Like, going backwards on the karma scale, or just plain having karma at all, wtf. Ridiculousness, is the fate of everything related to Arm, I guess.
Mar 26, 2020 22:05:40 GMT -5
psyxypher: I'd be ashamed of myself if my bad experiences stopped you from /at least/ trying.
Mar 27, 2020 0:15:17 GMT -5
psyxypher: Though, I would like an alternative to Karma. I've come up with a few.
Mar 27, 2020 0:15:36 GMT -5
nile: not arm does a lot of call outs for crafts etc...tough to be one as your subguild but it shouldn't be your main focus either. i also tend to find them just useful for coins etc really...that said, not arm is far more accommodating if you want shit done
Mar 27, 2020 2:44:44 GMT -5
psyxypher: Would be nice if when you use the Craft command to see recipes you could make, that you could piece together what other ingredients are. Right now I'm flopping between trying for another character or seeing if I can weather this out.
Mar 27, 2020 15:08:04 GMT -5
psyxypher: Both sound like pretty terrible options, to be honest.
Mar 27, 2020 15:08:17 GMT -5
vex: If you aren't having fun with it, do something else. Why waste leisure time, on something not making you happy? It makes no sense at all.
Mar 27, 2020 15:36:32 GMT -5
psyxypher: Mainly 'cause I'm worried my next character will be even less fun....but you're right.
Mar 27, 2020 17:26:41 GMT -5
psyxypher: Is there a board for ideas you'd want to add to the game?
Mar 28, 2020 18:52:21 GMT -5
nile: use the 'idea xxxx' command
Mar 30, 2020 4:22:28 GMT -5