Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 18:39:01 GMT -5
What was the core problem the imms were trying to solve, explained by the quote "make mages feel more like people first"?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 19:53:41 GMT -5
if that was the case ... perhaps elves should feel more like people first?
|
|
Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
|
Post by Patuk on Mar 27, 2016 19:57:04 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2016 20:21:10 GMT -5
I was actually being serious. Nevermind.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
|
Post by punished ppurg on Mar 27, 2016 21:33:01 GMT -5
Staff have written themselves into a corner by portraying elementalists as evil shunned bad guys, where the source material and every in-game element (heh) points to them being somewhat benevolent. Because of the way they've buried these classes behind fake outrage and karma points, the full classes weren't being treated as "people" by either the community or the players of those characters themselves.
I mean, how many gemmed have sat inside their temple spam-casting until they're fully functional, only to then go out into the RP environment? A great deal. This change eliminates that; among many other things, it gets people away from wanting to sit in an empty room and cast for hours.
But this all could have been fixed by a reworking of the standing lore (an excuse to change the gameworld and actually have an IC change? NEVER) while stepping along with the extended subguild change which just came out that allowed for more well-rounded, useful characters.
Instead, in order to make mages feel like people, they've been gelded. What a laff. You could have taken it in the right direction, but you've turned around and went in the complete opposite.
|
|
|
Post by Tektrollnes on Mar 28, 2016 20:15:44 GMT -5
I only spam cast in public.
|
|
|
Post by BitterFlashback on Mar 29, 2016 18:40:45 GMT -5
What was the core problem the imms were trying to solve, explained by the quote "make mages feel more like people first"? There was no problem that solved. It's just something catchy sounding that they thought of after-the-fact. If they wanted to be more honest, they should have said they were "trying to WoW the playerbase".
|
|
bobo
Clueless newb
Posts: 58
|
Post by bobo on Mar 29, 2016 21:44:48 GMT -5
What was the core problem the imms were trying to solve, explained by the quote "make mages feel more like people first"? It's just a catchphrase. A lame T-shirt or bumpersticker slogan that sounds good in broad terms. Who could argue with PCs "feeling more like people"? Like all such banal feelgood statements, it doesn't mean a goddamn thing. Similarly, this whole "lightning, shadow, and void elements aren't on theme" nonsense is another unsupported piece of drivel that's been circulating on staff for years, actually. As if fire elementalists with detect/dispel magick and tongues are somehow thematic -- sure, I can imagine lore to support that connection easily, because I have an imagination. Lightning and shadow don't even require imagination to see their coherent themes, and void is awesome and coherent in its theme except possibly for the undead spells, but some of those are incredible plot drivers.
|
|
m
staff puppet account
Posts: 8
|
Post by m on Mar 29, 2016 22:50:33 GMT -5
As if fire elementalists with detect/dispel magick and tongues are somehow thematic I've never really understood that. void is awesome and coherent in its theme except possibly for the undead spells It actually isn't. I don't know what the original thought process was (although I find it dubious that loose canon was the one who introduced these guilds to the detriment of the game and no-one, not even Nessalin, has gotten around to removing them until now. I guess shitting on prior staff in order to come up with an excuse to remove them from the game is totally acceptable behavior though) but here's two equally plausible explanations. Explanation 1: The void represents entropy. Nilaz is the entropy of the entire planes while undead are the entropy of living creatures as they do not contribute to new living things but instead actively take out resources from the circle of life. Therefore Nilaz and Undead are perfectly linked as two different representations of the same concept. Explanation 2: I've done some research into the Dark Sun cosmology. The four traditional elements that the Armageddon staff have reduced Armageddon to were all good clerics. As good clerics they have the ability to turn undead as this undead lives outside the natural circle of life and so is abhorrent to the Inner Elemental Planes which are in fact part of that life and potentially even the source of it. Nilazi deliberately act outside of that natural cycle and exist separate to it. A Nilazi specializes in magic that is anti-elemental planes. Given the elemental planes are so closely linked with life, the opposite of life is not death but is in fact anti-life i.e. undead. It is perfectly logical the anti-elemental planes caster to also be anti-life. However rather then think about it for more than two seconds it was felt the more appropriate response was to simply remove it from the game. My, what a wonderful contribution that is to the history of Armageddon.
|
|
OT
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 257
|
Post by OT on Mar 29, 2016 22:52:03 GMT -5
Any decent roleplayer can make a character feel like a person regardless of its skillset. The reason so many mages didn't feel like people was because they were played by shitty roleplayers who just wanted coded power. Mages - gemmed mages in particular - have always paradoxically had a worse average standard of roleplay than the mundane population does.
This change does nothing about this, and in fact makes it worse, because mages are now much better equipped to wreak havoc by being indistinguishable from mundanes and by having mindblowingly broken things like mul strength or nigh-invulnerability paired with combat skills, without any balancing weaknesses. Compared to a pre-change Rukkian, a warrior with Rukkian protection buffs will be better both defensively and offensively.
The Rukkian and Vivaduan elementalists have become much more powerful than they were before. A ranger, warrior or assassin with whatever magick subguild best suits them is stronger than the original magick guilds. Krathi power was mostly split between nukes and the ability to make rangz, and an assassin or ranger doesn't much need the nukes whereas he'll benefit hugely from empowered items and perhaps detect magic.
The Whiran mage's usefulness was comprised mostly of invis and fly, and I don't think anyone can now get both, but this class was never really about power so much as the ability to play the game like it was Minecraft in Creative mode. Aside from using questionable mechanics to drop people off mountains, this wasn't really a powerful mage class so much as an easymode one.
So what does this change do? It makes elementalists less appealing to people who liked playing the role of a mage as a distinctive type of character, the ones who simply enjoyed being the Arm equivalent of a D&D wizard as opposed to paladins and spellswords; and it makes them more appealing to people who just liked maximum coded power for the purpose of being able to kill other PCs most effectively. Mages are now PK gods, and most of the roleplaying value is lost.
In short, the people you want playing mages are now less likely to, and the people you don't want playing mages are now so much more likely to do so that they might simply never play mundanes again. No PKer is going to play a mundane after this change. There's absolutely no reason to do so unless there's a specific desire to play a mundane character for roleplay reasons, which most of us have had a decade or more to do ad nauseum.
Who's gonna be excited about spending three months training up a mundane warrior now? Who's gonna go through the extreme difficulties to skill up an assassin and then risk its life every time you attempt to assassinate somebody, without opting into the +50% power boost of a magick subguild to make failure so much less probable? Unless you specifically want to play a soldier or suchlike where being an elementalist isn't really feasible, it's hard to justify not taking a magick subguild.
|
|
bobo
Clueless newb
Posts: 58
|
Post by bobo on Mar 30, 2016 11:10:35 GMT -5
It is perfectly logical the anti-elemental planes caster to also be anti-life. Yeah, I totally agree, I'm just trying to be as charitable as possible towards their backwards-ass philosophy.
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on Mar 30, 2016 12:09:36 GMT -5
the fact of the matter is that there's zero risk to choosing a magick subguild. you can ignore it indefinitely under the guise of not having discovered your element/power yet. for guilds like ranger or assassin that are already very well-rounded, subguilds really have very little to offer and it's a better trade-off to take a mage subguild and hold off on using it/hedge against never having to use it rather than take a subguild to either get one or two new skills to mediocre levels or some worthless crafting skills.
now that lirathans are gone, who's going to even be able to tell if you have latent power?
|
|
|
Post by snorpborp on Mar 30, 2016 12:26:05 GMT -5
the fact of the matter is that there's zero risk to choosing a magick subguild. you can ignore it indefinitely under the guise of not having discovered your element/power yet. for guilds like ranger or assassin that are already very well-rounded, subguilds really have very little to offer and it's a better trade-off to take a mage subguild and hold off on using it/hedge against never having to use it rather than take a subguild to either get one or two new skills to mediocre levels or some worthless crafting skills. now that lirathans are gone, who's going to even be able to tell if you have latent power? will be important how many magick subguilds get identify if not all then risk even in nak is low. would need right subguild of same element to look at you. many gemmed wont go in main city with identify cast because templar bitchslapping.
|
|
|
Post by magickermarco on Mar 30, 2016 17:27:51 GMT -5
3-28-16 Sorcerer subguilds updated with additional spells --Adhira
Hummm... Hopefully maybe the ones removed.
So combine that with doubling their spells previously, they may be viable again but not nearly as scary I wouldn't think.
|
|
m
staff puppet account
Posts: 8
|
Post by m on Mar 30, 2016 17:32:44 GMT -5
3-28-16 Sorcerer subguilds updated with additional spells --Adhira Hummm... Hopefully maybe the ones removed. So combine that with doubling their spells previously, they may be viable again but not nearly as scary I wouldn't think. As good as that is for sorcerers, it doesn't change the fact 3 staples of the game were removed without even batting an eye.
|
|