Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2015 22:16:56 GMT -5
the bold has been the way i always treated the game, so as a result i had a bunch of trouble understanding much later on where ppl were getting the idea that there was anything guaranteed or promised beyond getting to fuck around in their sandbox with ur char. apparently they started spoiling a lot of players with extra attention (a lot of them new) during the mid-2000s to where when that batch of staff and the eotw plot dropped off and support tanked, they left behind a whole generation of players conditioned to think they were entitled to all that extra shit when really they just started playing at a real lucky time. edit: sure supports nice when u get it but its a gamble that u shouldnt come to expect much less demand unless ur told thats exactly what they plan to do for u Even setting aside players who have a set of expectations from tabletop games or other muds where rpt means something different, there are several factors that suggest the staff want a interactive experience. Staff encouraging players to develop plot, or their houses on the GDB The glorification of past pcs who had staff assisted plot The recent staff plots run for small groups (Hasan's group, etc) Responses to character reports saying things like "your pc didnt seem to do much". Is this intended to indicate we should dance for staff, or do things they can react to? Any number of mechanisms that force pcs into clans run by staff My read is, staff have always given this kind of attention and active "game mastering" to the select few in the "inner circle". The rest of the game is just a bait and switch combined with an audition for the cool kids club. lol, i've been in those staff-run 'small groups' - it's complete and utter shit: retarded highlander references coupled with doompiles of mobs and some templar squeezing one out a while ago harmless posted on the player retention thread an account note they got which was roughly 'ran away when he saw a staff echo. disappointing.' sounds like harmless was in small groups too and learned just how 'cool' they are and the appropriate reaction to them don't worry, you aren't missing out on anything. also wug's a dick
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Post by topkekm8s on Nov 30, 2015 22:38:32 GMT -5
i think alot of it has to due with the apocalyptic "revealing" or lifting of the veil. because the mechanics and meta are now transparent, the magic has been lost. you can attempt to rekindle the flame all you want but i dont think it'll ever be the same. maybe i'm just speaking from my own life cycle as a player. you stop loving a thing the more you understand it, the easier it is to manipulate; the less curveballs can be thrown at you. this applies on multiple levels. apply it to the individual playing armageddon mud and you have an aging playerbase that has just happened to grow past what the game can actually offer. jcarter knows what im talking about. lots of players do. for me, armageddon was my last rest stop on a long quest of looking for new games that could offer me an interesting experience i couldnt find elsewhere. now its like meh. i think a lot of people feel like that
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dcdc
Shartist
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Post by dcdc on Nov 30, 2015 23:30:38 GMT -5
Strangely learning the meta made the game more enjoyable at least for me. Use to be, I didn't know what was viable and what wasn't.
The lack of joy comes from the dated mechanics and the utter lack of not only the staff but the community (besides this place) trying to deny the meta around stats/skill grinds/and even gear doesn't exist.
The GDB can come off vindictive almost in the way they push newbies into utter ignorance about the nature of the meta game, claiming only RP matters! Meanwhile their on their fourth try for good stats this weekend, driving their hapless PC's into certain death so they can reroll for that AI.
I roll my eyes every time I read "my favorite best PC had poor stats! IT was fun!" Knowing that's the biggest steaming pile of shit and is utterly mean spirited watching so poor sap try and use his average strength warrior flounder about on the Byn sparring room floor.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Dec 1, 2015 2:13:22 GMT -5
i think alot of it has to due with the apocalyptic "revealing" or lifting of the veil. because the mechanics and meta are now transparent, the magic has been lost. you can attempt to rekindle the flame all you want but i dont think it'll ever be the same. maybe i'm just speaking from my own life cycle as a player. you stop loving a thing the more you understand it, the easier it is to manipulate; the less curveballs can be thrown at you. this applies on multiple levels. apply it to the individual playing armageddon mud and you have an aging playerbase that has just happened to grow past what the game can actually offer. jcarter knows what im talking about. lots of players do. for me, armageddon was my last rest stop on a long quest of looking for new games that could offer me an interesting experience i couldnt find elsewhere. now its like meh. i think a lot of people feel like that I agree to an extent. It's why I keep saying changes to the game should be tailored to look as part of a story and not contrived just to fix an ooc flaw. You're lifting that veil of mystery when the OOC reasons for a change become apparent. But there are a lot of actions current players do wrong to spoil their own enjoyment of the game. First is talking to other players. Play for a month without talking to a single player and without knowing the ooc identity behind a single character and the world will come alive for you. I bet you dollars to donuts you'll like the game so much more. Second is reading and participating in the gdb. Just don't go there. It's always been toxic. And lastly, when you're playing....play. Stop multitasking and for once be where your character is, completely. There really is no end to the blame we can place on imms past and present. I mean it. It's astounding how not just one or two but the overwhelming majority have always been so transparently manipulative and dickheaded. It's so blatant it's almost as if it must be a badge of pride for an imm to behave this way. But there is some blame to be placed on the players as well. A lot less, I'll grant you that. But some. And if you're reading this and you're still playing Arm these days you really can do something to bring back some of that magic for yourself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 7:28:56 GMT -5
The glorification of past pcs who had staff assisted plot The recent staff plots run for small groups (Hasan's group, etc) Responses to character reports saying things like "your pc didnt seem to do much". Is this intended to indicate we should dance for staff, or do things they can react to? Any number of mechanisms that force pcs into clans run by staff My read is, staff have always given this kind of attention and active "game mastering" to the select few in the "inner circle". The rest of the game is just a bait and switch combined with an audition for the cool kids club. Partial quotes I can't do so good. Anyway: 1. Players are glorifying each other, whether their plots were staff-assisted or not. 2. How do you know these were staff plots and not player-created plots that staff helped with? Or they could've been staff plots that those groups picked up on and got involved with? It doesn't mean that the staff is running plots *for* that group. Though sometimes it does. But you alwasy seem so sure that any time anyone has any fun in the game it's because the staff created fun for them. I doubt very much that's the case. 3. It's intended to indicate that your PC didn't do much in the context of the report you sent. Your report probably read something like "This happened, that happened, the other thing happened. My character tried to get info about this. My character started gathering data about that. My character collected some gear." And the staff's response was a summary: Your PC didn't do much. 4. You never have to participate in clans. Roll up a breed with mommy issues, and no one will want you. Even if you have a loyal human warrior living in Allanak you don't have to join the Arm. You have to RP your way out of joining if you're pressured but that's up to you to do.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 1, 2015 8:30:37 GMT -5
No, in the sense that for 5 months out of the year they were exactly the same as the year before (250)... look again It's not hard to add up unique log-ins over those 5 months to get an average, and then compare it to the year before. Looking at it isn't going to help, unless you can do all that in your head. Otherwise you actually have to do a little math. Beginning of april to the end of august. Unless you're quibbling over my use of "exact" which you would technically be right. It's 250 for this year and 251 for last year. none of your post is true. for 8 weeks, the unique logins were greater in 2015 than the equivalent weeks in 2014. i have no idea how you've come to the conclusion that there were 5 months that exceeded the average for 2014, or why cherrypicking months and comparing them to the average is even a useful metric but you're still wrong. the average in 2014 was 251. only 9 weeks, not necessarily consecutive, had greater than 251 players. if you arbitrarily segment the data by calendar month, only 3 months come close to meeting or exceeding 250. also, the average for this year is not 250. look at the chart. the average for this year is much less than 240. RGS please tell me what kind of math you are doing to somehow massage out that for nearly half this year Arm has had numbers than last year's average.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 9:04:29 GMT -5
@rgs does this help? it's my favorite one. ender has some nice graphs up in the Why do you vote thread on the gdb too
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 9:07:19 GMT -5
To which the only appropriate response would have been: fuck you, I'm an unpaid volunteer.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 1, 2015 9:38:48 GMT -5
i think alot of it has to due with the apocalyptic "revealing" or lifting of the veil. because the mechanics and meta are now transparent, the magic has been lost. you can attempt to rekindle the flame all you want but i dont think it'll ever be the same. maybe i'm just speaking from my own life cycle as a player. you stop loving a thing the more you understand it, the easier it is to manipulate; the less curveballs can be thrown at you. this applies on multiple levels. apply it to the individual playing armageddon mud and you have an aging playerbase that has just happened to grow past what the game can actually offer. jcarter knows what im talking about. lots of players do. for me, armageddon was my last rest stop on a long quest of looking for new games that could offer me an interesting experience i couldnt find elsewhere. now its like meh. i think a lot of people feel like that it doesn't have to do with arm itself, it's more to do with what the admins do with arm. there's a shit ton of cool stuff that can be added which would make the game more dynamic. set up coded traderoutes that influence prices of goods in areas if they get disrupted. add dynamic bandit spawn camps that attack them and need to get periodically wiped out by Militia PCs or GMH employees that need to keep routes clear. allow players to set up structures with quit-rooms and save rooms but make it require maintenance so it's not necessarily a forever thing. randomly add caves to the world that are worth exploring because they've got artifacts worth a shit ton. codify the fucking game. give players a reason to take a ranger over a warrior - maybe a reduction to MV cost in outdoor rooms or w/e. codify the instrument playing skills and have them add bonuses to regen so that bards are useful for something besides spamming a screen. give massive boosts to learning rates of warriors in noble houses - lore-wise a Tor scorpion, trained in the finest combat facilities, should be able to tear apart a Bynner but lol that never happens in-game. now you actually have justification for life oaths and all that jazz. as a game, arm sucks. i don't think there's anyone except contrarians who will say that they think arm has interesting mechanics or code (leaving out a small fraction of some of the magick stuff). combat is boring. exploring is boring because there's nothing to find. logging in to do anything is boring because there's nothing to achieve. the minor merchant house stuff was a step in the right direction for coding things, but the game is decades behind the curve compared to existing RPI and non-RPI muds. as a roleplay setting, it's ok because of the players. but I don't particularly see a reason to play it over any number of MUSHes out there that have the same quality of players and more involved staff and plots.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 388
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Post by jesantu on Dec 1, 2015 10:02:17 GMT -5
Really nicely put jcarter. The idea for bards is awesome, as is tor scorpions vs byn. I think players would be wild with excitement if the bandit camps you suggested cropped up here and there and had to be put down by ambitious pcs.
Now try and imagine what someone like nessalin would reply to any of that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 11:45:07 GMT -5
Dude, JCarter, I'm not massaging stats. And if you really can't understand what I'm saying at this point, no explaining is going to help. I never said the average for this year was 250. I never said the average for this year is higher than last year. I'm not cherrypicking months, they are the months that are the least affected by 2013 that happen before the downswing in numbers.
You apparently think I'm taking a position I'm not if you think I said those things. That or you're aggressively trying to misunderstand. Either way I don't think there's much point in discussing things further.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 11:51:00 GMT -5
@rgs does this help? it's my favorite one. ender has some nice graphs up in the Why do you vote thread on the gdb too Yeah actually these are the stats I go to most. Mudstats is pretty cool. I don't even know where the graph came from that has unique weekly log-ins. But I find unique weekly log-ins to be a much better metric. I wish mudstats had that. What's interesting about this graph is it shows in 2015 we've had both the most and least average numbers(per day which is important) we've had since 2009.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 12:26:00 GMT -5
To which the only appropriate response would have been: fuck you, I'm an unpaid volunteer. Why would you respond that way? "You didn't do much" isn't a criticism, or a complaint, or a suggestion or demand. It's a statement. If a staffer told me in response to my character report "you didn't do much" I wouldn't take it as a "you should've done more" or "I expected something else" or "You're lazy." I'd take it as a "you didn't do much." I'd re-read my report and see if I actually DID something other than try to do something, or send other people out to do something. If I discover that hey - all the things I did, involved getting other people to do things, but I didn't actually do any of it myself - then yeah the assessment would be correct. I didn't do much.
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Post by jcarter on Dec 1, 2015 12:32:12 GMT -5
Dude, JCarter, I'm not massaging stats. And if you really can't understand what I'm saying at this point, no explaining is going to help. I never said the average for this year was 250. I never said the average for this year is higher than last year. I'm not cherrypicking months, they are the months that are the least affected by 2013 that happen before the downswing in numbers. yes, you are. you're taking the outliers for the year (april and may) and grouping them with an extra 3 other months (stopping before the historically low month) and computing the average, which makes things look statistically similar to a representative sample of the previous year. Not to mention that you're weighing the 5 weeks of august the same as the 4 weeks of the previous months because you're calculating per calendar month instead of blocks of time. April average 2015 (unique logins per week of april/4): 256 May average 2015: 272 June average 2015: 249 (rounded up) July average 2015: 239 (rounded up) Aug average 2015 (logins / 5 because 5 weeks): 235 (rounded up) Sept 2015: 211 The first two months skew the data and are literally the most populated Apr 2014: 258 (rounded up) May 2014: 260 (rounded up) June 2014: 247 July 2014: 245 Aug 2014: 250 (rounded up) (5 weeks) Sept 2014: 230 Still arbitrarily weighing all months equally: Apr-Aug average 2015: 250 Apr-Sept average 2015: 242 Apr-Aug average 2014: 252 Apr-Sept average 2014: 248 Notice how adding a single extra data point shifts the 2015 vs 2014 difference from ~2 to 6. also notice how those 5 months in 2014 were representative of the yearly average (252 vs average of 253) and the 5 months in 2015 are not. also i have no idea how 2013 factors into a 2015 vs 2014 analysis and tbf it's not relevant.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Dec 1, 2015 12:44:41 GMT -5
just change it to RCS already
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