Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Jun 6, 2015 2:47:58 GMT -5
So I was feeling a bit nostalgic at work a while back, and to kill time I decided to google around for a bunch of old RPI-related threads scattered about the internet. I came across that old thread from 2009 where Delerak, prof1515, and a load of others hashed out just what is and isn't an RPI. The thread was started by a New Worlds: Ateraan representative, and it sparked a pretty lively debate on RP quality, the role of permadeath, and loads of other stuff.
New Worlds: Ateraan continuously asserted RPI status, while not really adhering to what any of us here would consider a solid RPI atmosphere. Curious, I decided to give it a fair shake. After quitting Armageddon a couple years back, I've always kinda been looking for another MUD to settle down in. You know how it goes, and with the promise of a cultivated RP environment, New Worlds looked inviting. Bitter suggested that I write about my experience, so here goes:
It quickly became apparent that NW lacked just about everything that makes an RPI an RPI as we know it. There is permadeath, but their system is very lenient (you have to die a -lot- in a short period of time, or have your resurrect flag revoked by a staff member after RP calling for it or whatever), which kind of appealed to me because nothing kills my good-times boner like losing a character to NPC critter baddie #2984-- and I was looking for something kinda casual anyhow, so long as the RP was quality. They also have a sort of half-assed explanation as to why you respawn at a temple when you die, which I could live with. Upon dying to an NPC, you get the option to pray to one of three religions, and are made corporeal again at a respective temple. You lose all of your equipment, one point in every skill, your racial/background powers, and the name of everyone you have "intro'd" yourself to, having to RP forgetting everyone you've met. While NW claims that these are "serious consequences", it basically boils down to your friends finding you after you die and re-introducing themselves to you, and everyone carrying on like nothing happened. I should also mention that -everyone in the kingdom- is alerted to your death when you die. Bottom line, death in NW is trivial as hell. Sometimes it even leads to friendly, more experienced players giving you buff equipment and other neat things when you respawn.
The few things that really got me were the other players, the lack of tools for interacting with said players-- as well as the world, and their Guild system.
The players: Here is a log snippet. It should speak for itself.
Quality
Also, I don't have a log of it, but the other day some dude, Kfir was his name, was killed in the middle of the tavern in front of everyone because he was being annoying. He summarily returned within a minute to gather his equipment before leaving again.
Oh, and every time someone logs in, there is a server-wide announcement.
New Worlds: Ateraan had a couple of logs posted somewhere of a big event, and everyone had their big-boy RP pants on, but even then it was lackluster and people forget that the "emote" command even exists the instant a big event ends.
Speaking of the emote command, it is about as robust as any run-of-the-mill H&S mud. No speech emotes, no action emotes, no possessive emotes, none of that. Just emote. Which, it just as well not exist because for every person that throws out an actual emote every now and again, there's another twenty that rely on canned emotes exclusively.
Their guild system is a real pisser too.
It works like this.
When you start the game, your character is in the "Immigrant" clan. The only skills you have are based on your history and racial selections. Nymphs get mysticast and magic-elements, Centaurs get trample and martial-strategy and so on as racial abilities. Sojurnes get sojdodge and thief dodge and Sudens get martial-defense and sudefense and so on as history abilities. I should note here that their documentation does not cover what skills each race and history get, and they find trying them out and immediately deleting the character very meta-gamey. So you're basically stuck with what you blindly chose. Anyhow, while in the immigrant clan, your job is basically to grind. You get XP for killing stuff or for prolonged interaction with other players, which somehow you can earn money by just talking to people a lot. At level 9 you are required to write up a bio for your character and get it approved before you can advance to level ten.
Upon reaching level ten, it is announced to everyone in the Kingdom (if you started north) or in Darmahk (if you started south) that you're done with being an immigrant and are now a Serf, ready to join any of the few guilds in the game. Joining any of them is incredibly difficult, and it ultimately wound up being the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I could look past everything else I find wrong with this game if I could just make some sort of progress. After reaching level ten, you can no longer advance at the Immigrant's guild. You have to join any of the other guilds.
Want to join the Mage's Tower? Prepare to write an essay to the leadership explaining why you want to join, apparently "wanting to learn magic" isn't good enough-- and you have to have another esteemed member of the Tower vouch for you. It also requires that you know a thing or two about magic in the game already, which you can't know because you've never been a mage, and asking other mages yields a "gotta find out that shit on your own, yo".
Moving on from that, I tried to join the Rogue guild, which is a whole 'nother kind of bullshit. Asking about it on the question channel revealed that it's the easiest guild to join.
Basically, you have to find the monastery. Many people will tell you that you have to find the monastery on your own, which will lead to you dying a lot searching the wilderness. You'll lose your equipment and have to make do with whatever you can beg for or buy if you still have money. It's a huge annoying grind, dying. If you make it apparent that you've been searching for the monastery for days, someone will eventually break and tell you where it is.
Once you get in the monastery, you're given a warning that you'll either succeed or die. Once you step in, the exit is sealed. You find the monk. He does some typical peaceful monk shit, bow, and apologize for what he's about to do to you.
k cool
So you fight the monk. He's incredibly tough. He's far stronger than your level-ten character that can't advance because guildless. He will kill you unless you're wearing gear far above what you can acquire through normal means as a level-ten character. So you die and start over again.
After a few hours of asking around and grinding for money, you manage to buy some decent gear and some neat gadgets from another player. You also stock up on food, because you can eat mid-combat and it replenishes your health, energy, and stamina.
So you go to fight the monk again, more prepared. You use three fire scrolls, a dart blower, four healing flowers, and you eat every scrap of food you have. You finally beat him. Awesome. The only exit is to the west. Fearing another fight, you wait until your health is full.
You go west. SURPRISE, darts come flying at you out of the walls. One hits you. You type "score" to see how much damage it did, BECAUSE THEY HAVE PROMPTS DISABLED-- THEY BELIEVE PROMPTS DETRACT FROM RP. Shit, it chunked you for half health. By the time you realize what's going on, a second dart hits you, killing you.
So you go through the whole process again, gathering equipment, grinding for money, etc. You go in, kill the monk, and spamwalk west before any darts can hit you. Now you're in a room with a master monk. He says you have a choice between three doors, each leads to a different path in the Rogue's guild (I can only assume different skillsets). You are given absolutely zero indication as to what the difference between all three of these are. Hope you're lucky because you're gonna be stuck with whatever you get.
Into the gray door, inside is a gray monk. He initiates combat with you. Holy fucking shit he is three times stronger than that last monk. You are dead before you can type "eat potato".
In short, fuck this game.
I've never legit ragequit a game in my life, but here we are.
New Worlds: Ateraan broke me.
New Worlds: Ateraan continuously asserted RPI status, while not really adhering to what any of us here would consider a solid RPI atmosphere. Curious, I decided to give it a fair shake. After quitting Armageddon a couple years back, I've always kinda been looking for another MUD to settle down in. You know how it goes, and with the promise of a cultivated RP environment, New Worlds looked inviting. Bitter suggested that I write about my experience, so here goes:
It quickly became apparent that NW lacked just about everything that makes an RPI an RPI as we know it. There is permadeath, but their system is very lenient (you have to die a -lot- in a short period of time, or have your resurrect flag revoked by a staff member after RP calling for it or whatever), which kind of appealed to me because nothing kills my good-times boner like losing a character to NPC critter baddie #2984-- and I was looking for something kinda casual anyhow, so long as the RP was quality. They also have a sort of half-assed explanation as to why you respawn at a temple when you die, which I could live with. Upon dying to an NPC, you get the option to pray to one of three religions, and are made corporeal again at a respective temple. You lose all of your equipment, one point in every skill, your racial/background powers, and the name of everyone you have "intro'd" yourself to, having to RP forgetting everyone you've met. While NW claims that these are "serious consequences", it basically boils down to your friends finding you after you die and re-introducing themselves to you, and everyone carrying on like nothing happened. I should also mention that -everyone in the kingdom- is alerted to your death when you die. Bottom line, death in NW is trivial as hell. Sometimes it even leads to friendly, more experienced players giving you buff equipment and other neat things when you respawn.
The few things that really got me were the other players, the lack of tools for interacting with said players-- as well as the world, and their Guild system.
The players: Here is a log snippet. It should speak for itself.
Gahlen Tavern
The Gahlen Tavern is bright and filled with tables and smells of ale and
foods. The Merchant Guild has purchased the tavern and hires the bartender to
manage the sale of food and drinks. A gaming lounge is down some stairs and
several private recesses for conversation are available out one of the doors
leading north, east, and south as shown:
North - Large private receNorth - Large private recess for up to eight people.
East - Small private corners for two people.
South - Small private recess for up to four people.
A food menu (foodmenu) and drink menu (drinkmenu) is posted on the wall,
showing the items available.
Obvious exits : west, down, north, south, northeast, east and southeast.
Female Elf.
Male Feline.
Female Human.
Male Human.
Female Human.
Female Gnome.
Female Human.
Alluhana.
Darci the serving wench.
Gahrsher Rowe.
Togile holds Faea.
Faea smooches Togile lovingly.
Togile smooches Faea lovingly.
Zuvabell tells Xireena her name.
Faea loses Togile.
Faea follows Togile.
Zuvabell tells Xireena a great deal about who she is.
Togile stands up and takes Faea's hand.
Togile hums a merry tune.
Togile and Faea leave west.
Trisara leave west.
Xireena scoots closer to Zuvabell and wiggles.
Leylore asks to Xireena, "How are you... Priestess? Acolyte?"
Zuvabell says to Leylore, "Shhh... she's doing her mating dance."
Xireena asks to Leylore, "Disciple, and I am well. Do...we know each other?"
Neechi snickers.
Xireena laughs at Zuvabell.
A mystic rune flashes and disappears.
Leylore says to Xireena, "We met at your sermon."
Leylore says, "I'm Leylore Moonstar, Merchant Nightsmith, Deputy of the Crown,
and Rune Knight."
Leylore tells Xireena his name.
Leylore tells Xireena a great deal about who he is.
Leylore eats a raisin cookie.
Xireena says, "Ahh, yes, I had a bit of a run in with a kangaroo."
Leylore nods.
Leylore says, "Glad you're recovered."
Neechi says, "Damn those kangaroos."
Zuvabell says, "She did her mating dance with the kangaroo and it got upset."
Leylore says, "I..."
Zuvabell says, "I'm pretty upset right now."
Neechi snaps her fingers.
Leylore muses in thought.
Xireena looks at Pouch.
Arnorr arrives from the west.
Xireena looks at Backpack.
Zuvabell says, "But I kinda like it."
Zuvabell looks at Box of candy.
Arnorr puts five banana breads in Pouch.
Zuvabell takes a piece of scrumptious candy from a box and eats it.
Xireena chuckles at Zuvabell.
Arnorr waves.
Arnorr leaves west.
Neechi says, "Guess it didn't like that kind of dancing."
Leylore looks at Backpack.
Zuvabell looks at backpack.
Xireena says to Zuvabell, "It ate your candy."
Leylore gets a Tabac vanilla cigar from the
Backpack.
Dian leaves west.
Zuvabell says, "I have five boxes."
Leylore leaves west.
Zuvabell gets a note from the backpack.
Zuvabell looks at note.
Leylore arrives from the west.
Zuvabell shows note to Xireena
Vanterron arrives from the west.
Finniss looks at Amber dragonfruit tea.
Leylore says, "I should devote, eventually."
Xireena says, "I'm not a very good dancer, so I can't imagine that it would."
Finniss tastes tea.
Leylore looks at Finniss.
Vanterron asks, "Anyone here part of the hunt?"
Vanterron looks at parchment.
Neechi shakes her head.
Zuvabell puts a note in backpack.
Vanterron leaves west.
Arlenna arrives from the west.
Finniss looks at Leylore.
Neechi hums a merry tune.
Leylore looks at Neechi.
Leylore greets Neechi.
Arlenna asks to Leylore, "Are you the merchant for the scavenger?"
Leylore shakes his head at Arlenna.
Arlenna nods.
Leylore says, "No, I just made food."
Arlenna leaves west.
Leylore yells, "Really. Great. Food."
Neechi snickers.
Finniss leaves west.
Leylore leaves west.
Leylore arrives from the west.
Leylore gives an Amber dragonfruit tea to Xireena.
Leylore gives a Glazed sweet bread to Xireena.
Xireena looks at Amber dragonfruit tea.
Xireena smells tea.
Xireena holds the tea up to her mouth and tentatively takes a sip.
Xireena tastes tea.
[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Sia arrives in New Worlds.
[*****************************************]
Zuvabell leaves west.
Darci turns to Neechi and says,
"Some soldiers were in here talking over drinks, saying that Leylore did a
commendable job during the recent incident with the guards"
Leylore peers at Darci.
Leylore says, "I was the only Merchant awake for a while, it wasn't hard to be
commendable."
Leylore chuckles.
[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Xarinella arrives in New Worlds.
[*****************************************]
Neechi chuckles.
Darci turns to Leylore and says,
"I heard that a thief finally got a taste of her own medicine."
[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Deith arrives in New Worlds.
[*****************************************]
Leylore exclaims to Neechi, "See! I've matured!"
Neechi says to Leylore, "It's a miracle."
Sia arrives from the west.
Leylore looks at Sia.
Neechi gives a slight smile.
Leylore greets Sia.
Sia gives a little wave.
Leylore exclaims to Neechi, "Someday, I might make Marshall!"
Renarin arrives from the west.
Renarin leaves east.
Renarin arrives from the east.
Renarin leaves east.
Renarin arrives from the east.
Zanene <Kingdom> hunters, you have ten minutes left! good luck!
Renarin leaves west.
Neechi says to Leylore, "Good for you."
Leylore beams brightly.
Neechi twirls around.
Neechi leaves west.
Sia leaves west.
The Gahlen Tavern is bright and filled with tables and smells of ale and
foods. The Merchant Guild has purchased the tavern and hires the bartender to
manage the sale of food and drinks. A gaming lounge is down some stairs and
several private recesses for conversation are available out one of the doors
leading north, east, and south as shown:
North - Large private receNorth - Large private recess for up to eight people.
East - Small private corners for two people.
South - Small private recess for up to four people.
A food menu (foodmenu) and drink menu (drinkmenu) is posted on the wall,
showing the items available.
Obvious exits : west, down, north, south, northeast, east and southeast.
Female Elf.
Male Feline.
Female Human.
Male Human.
Female Human.
Female Gnome.
Female Human.
Alluhana.
Darci the serving wench.
Gahrsher Rowe.
Togile holds Faea.
Faea smooches Togile lovingly.
Togile smooches Faea lovingly.
Zuvabell tells Xireena her name.
Faea loses Togile.
Faea follows Togile.
Zuvabell tells Xireena a great deal about who she is.
Togile stands up and takes Faea's hand.
Togile hums a merry tune.
Togile and Faea leave west.
Trisara leave west.
Xireena scoots closer to Zuvabell and wiggles.
Leylore asks to Xireena, "How are you... Priestess? Acolyte?"
Zuvabell says to Leylore, "Shhh... she's doing her mating dance."
Xireena asks to Leylore, "Disciple, and I am well. Do...we know each other?"
Neechi snickers.
Xireena laughs at Zuvabell.
A mystic rune flashes and disappears.
Leylore says to Xireena, "We met at your sermon."
Leylore says, "I'm Leylore Moonstar, Merchant Nightsmith, Deputy of the Crown,
and Rune Knight."
Leylore tells Xireena his name.
Leylore tells Xireena a great deal about who he is.
Leylore eats a raisin cookie.
Xireena says, "Ahh, yes, I had a bit of a run in with a kangaroo."
Leylore nods.
Leylore says, "Glad you're recovered."
Neechi says, "Damn those kangaroos."
Zuvabell says, "She did her mating dance with the kangaroo and it got upset."
Leylore says, "I..."
Zuvabell says, "I'm pretty upset right now."
Neechi snaps her fingers.
Leylore muses in thought.
Xireena looks at Pouch.
Arnorr arrives from the west.
Xireena looks at Backpack.
Zuvabell says, "But I kinda like it."
Zuvabell looks at Box of candy.
Arnorr puts five banana breads in Pouch.
Zuvabell takes a piece of scrumptious candy from a box and eats it.
Xireena chuckles at Zuvabell.
Arnorr waves.
Arnorr leaves west.
Neechi says, "Guess it didn't like that kind of dancing."
Leylore looks at Backpack.
Zuvabell looks at backpack.
Xireena says to Zuvabell, "It ate your candy."
Leylore gets a Tabac vanilla cigar from the
Backpack.
Dian leaves west.
Zuvabell says, "I have five boxes."
Leylore leaves west.
Zuvabell gets a note from the backpack.
Zuvabell looks at note.
Leylore arrives from the west.
Zuvabell shows note to Xireena
Vanterron arrives from the west.
Finniss looks at Amber dragonfruit tea.
Leylore says, "I should devote, eventually."
Xireena says, "I'm not a very good dancer, so I can't imagine that it would."
Finniss tastes tea.
Leylore looks at Finniss.
Vanterron asks, "Anyone here part of the hunt?"
Vanterron looks at parchment.
Neechi shakes her head.
Zuvabell puts a note in backpack.
Vanterron leaves west.
Arlenna arrives from the west.
Finniss looks at Leylore.
Neechi hums a merry tune.
Leylore looks at Neechi.
Leylore greets Neechi.
Arlenna asks to Leylore, "Are you the merchant for the scavenger?"
Leylore shakes his head at Arlenna.
Arlenna nods.
Leylore says, "No, I just made food."
Arlenna leaves west.
Leylore yells, "Really. Great. Food."
Neechi snickers.
Finniss leaves west.
Leylore leaves west.
Leylore arrives from the west.
Leylore gives an Amber dragonfruit tea to Xireena.
Leylore gives a Glazed sweet bread to Xireena.
Xireena looks at Amber dragonfruit tea.
Xireena smells tea.
Xireena holds the tea up to her mouth and tentatively takes a sip.
Xireena tastes tea.
[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Sia arrives in New Worlds.
[*****************************************]
Zuvabell leaves west.
Darci turns to Neechi and says,
"Some soldiers were in here talking over drinks, saying that Leylore did a
commendable job during the recent incident with the guards"
Leylore peers at Darci.
Leylore says, "I was the only Merchant awake for a while, it wasn't hard to be
commendable."
Leylore chuckles.
[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Xarinella arrives in New Worlds.
[*****************************************]
Neechi chuckles.
Darci turns to Leylore and says,
"I heard that a thief finally got a taste of her own medicine."
[************--Rumour Monger--************]
Deith arrives in New Worlds.
[*****************************************]
Leylore exclaims to Neechi, "See! I've matured!"
Neechi says to Leylore, "It's a miracle."
Sia arrives from the west.
Leylore looks at Sia.
Neechi gives a slight smile.
Leylore greets Sia.
Sia gives a little wave.
Leylore exclaims to Neechi, "Someday, I might make Marshall!"
Renarin arrives from the west.
Renarin leaves east.
Renarin arrives from the east.
Renarin leaves east.
Renarin arrives from the east.
Zanene <Kingdom> hunters, you have ten minutes left! good luck!
Renarin leaves west.
Neechi says to Leylore, "Good for you."
Leylore beams brightly.
Neechi twirls around.
Neechi leaves west.
Sia leaves west.
Quality
Also, I don't have a log of it, but the other day some dude, Kfir was his name, was killed in the middle of the tavern in front of everyone because he was being annoying. He summarily returned within a minute to gather his equipment before leaving again.
Oh, and every time someone logs in, there is a server-wide announcement.
New Worlds: Ateraan had a couple of logs posted somewhere of a big event, and everyone had their big-boy RP pants on, but even then it was lackluster and people forget that the "emote" command even exists the instant a big event ends.
Speaking of the emote command, it is about as robust as any run-of-the-mill H&S mud. No speech emotes, no action emotes, no possessive emotes, none of that. Just emote. Which, it just as well not exist because for every person that throws out an actual emote every now and again, there's another twenty that rely on canned emotes exclusively.
Their guild system is a real pisser too.
It works like this.
When you start the game, your character is in the "Immigrant" clan. The only skills you have are based on your history and racial selections. Nymphs get mysticast and magic-elements, Centaurs get trample and martial-strategy and so on as racial abilities. Sojurnes get sojdodge and thief dodge and Sudens get martial-defense and sudefense and so on as history abilities. I should note here that their documentation does not cover what skills each race and history get, and they find trying them out and immediately deleting the character very meta-gamey. So you're basically stuck with what you blindly chose. Anyhow, while in the immigrant clan, your job is basically to grind. You get XP for killing stuff or for prolonged interaction with other players, which somehow you can earn money by just talking to people a lot. At level 9 you are required to write up a bio for your character and get it approved before you can advance to level ten.
Upon reaching level ten, it is announced to everyone in the Kingdom (if you started north) or in Darmahk (if you started south) that you're done with being an immigrant and are now a Serf, ready to join any of the few guilds in the game. Joining any of them is incredibly difficult, and it ultimately wound up being the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I could look past everything else I find wrong with this game if I could just make some sort of progress. After reaching level ten, you can no longer advance at the Immigrant's guild. You have to join any of the other guilds.
Want to join the Mage's Tower? Prepare to write an essay to the leadership explaining why you want to join, apparently "wanting to learn magic" isn't good enough-- and you have to have another esteemed member of the Tower vouch for you. It also requires that you know a thing or two about magic in the game already, which you can't know because you've never been a mage, and asking other mages yields a "gotta find out that shit on your own, yo".
Moving on from that, I tried to join the Rogue guild, which is a whole 'nother kind of bullshit. Asking about it on the question channel revealed that it's the easiest guild to join.
Basically, you have to find the monastery. Many people will tell you that you have to find the monastery on your own, which will lead to you dying a lot searching the wilderness. You'll lose your equipment and have to make do with whatever you can beg for or buy if you still have money. It's a huge annoying grind, dying. If you make it apparent that you've been searching for the monastery for days, someone will eventually break and tell you where it is.
Once you get in the monastery, you're given a warning that you'll either succeed or die. Once you step in, the exit is sealed. You find the monk. He does some typical peaceful monk shit, bow, and apologize for what he's about to do to you.
k cool
So you fight the monk. He's incredibly tough. He's far stronger than your level-ten character that can't advance because guildless. He will kill you unless you're wearing gear far above what you can acquire through normal means as a level-ten character. So you die and start over again.
After a few hours of asking around and grinding for money, you manage to buy some decent gear and some neat gadgets from another player. You also stock up on food, because you can eat mid-combat and it replenishes your health, energy, and stamina.
So you go to fight the monk again, more prepared. You use three fire scrolls, a dart blower, four healing flowers, and you eat every scrap of food you have. You finally beat him. Awesome. The only exit is to the west. Fearing another fight, you wait until your health is full.
You go west. SURPRISE, darts come flying at you out of the walls. One hits you. You type "score" to see how much damage it did, BECAUSE THEY HAVE PROMPTS DISABLED-- THEY BELIEVE PROMPTS DETRACT FROM RP. Shit, it chunked you for half health. By the time you realize what's going on, a second dart hits you, killing you.
So you go through the whole process again, gathering equipment, grinding for money, etc. You go in, kill the monk, and spamwalk west before any darts can hit you. Now you're in a room with a master monk. He says you have a choice between three doors, each leads to a different path in the Rogue's guild (I can only assume different skillsets). You are given absolutely zero indication as to what the difference between all three of these are. Hope you're lucky because you're gonna be stuck with whatever you get.
Into the gray door, inside is a gray monk. He initiates combat with you. Holy fucking shit he is three times stronger than that last monk. You are dead before you can type "eat potato".
In short, fuck this game.
I've never legit ragequit a game in my life, but here we are.
New Worlds: Ateraan broke me.
