jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jan 25, 2015 11:42:59 GMT -5
It's because people feel that if your half-giant isn't a hapless moron, you're ignoring the supposed disadvantage of the race. It's regarded a bit like an elf who rides. People don't trust other players to have their half-giants make the occasional sensible decision or contribute to roleplay in a meaningful manner while still allowing the race's mental restrictions factor into the character's actions. In a way I see the underlying point as someone rolling up a half-giant and playing it like a human would be abusing the game, but the problem is that people make that judgment immediately upon seeing a half-giant do anything that makes sense.nail on the head |
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Post by someguy on Jan 25, 2015 13:02:07 GMT -5
Ranger / Slipknife is just terrible.
Ranger / Rogue on the otherhand...
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Hardboiled
Clueless newb
Eggs, their good for you.
Posts: 116
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Post by Hardboiled on Jan 25, 2015 13:06:05 GMT -5
I don't doubt a ranger can survive against a warrior before getting killed by running away. Even hold his own against a warrior more easily on mount not to mention they have archery. However a ranger going head to head with a warrior and winning, let alone actually kill the warrior is not going to happen unless the ranger out skilled the warrior in an utterly insane way, because disarm and two-handed skill is very strong. Rangers in this thread are being made to seem utterly OP when they do have some significant weaknesses in combat that warriors don't, mainly getting disarmed. While a warrior has no such weakness and will keep on smacking you with his two-hander even as you are pulling out another shitty weapon to compensate. The ranger really needs to poison a warrior, or he is most likely going to die in a head to head fight.
The whole argument is based around the fact people think its easier to twink out rangers as opposed to warriors. That not necessarily true though. Warriors even clanned warriors do branch exotic weapons. Weapon skills being the hardest skill to train, defense/offense skill isn't very difficult to train, no real twinkage needed either, just read around these forums for some ideas. Sorry but the best warriors in the game, are still warriors, not rangers. This post makes them seem like they are OP with little to no weaknesses and that is just not true. I would really hate for staff (who clearly do read these forums) to see threads like this and be influenced by them, possibly nerfing rangers, the same way someone was saying throwing spears might have gotten nerf.
Again, good luck twinking your ranger past the point where my equally twinked out warrior won't three shot you while disarming you. Don't forget one of those strikes will probably come when you try to flee now. I'd be surprised if Stilt lizards haven't been secretly nerfed yet or are being used as twink bait.
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Post by sirra on Jan 25, 2015 13:18:24 GMT -5
I don't doubt a ranger can survive against a warrior before getting killed by running away. Even hold his own against a warrior more easily on mount not to mention they have archery. However a ranger going head to head with a warrior and winning, let alone actually kill the warrior is not going to happen unless the ranger out skilled the warrior in an utterly insane way, because disarm and two-handed skill is very strong. Rangers in this thread are being made to seem utterly OP when they do have some significant weaknesses in combat that warriors don't, mainly getting disarmed. While a warrior has no such weakness and will keep on smacking you with his two-hander even as you are pulling out another shitty weapon to compensate. The ranger really needs to poison a warrior, or he is most likely going to die in a head to head fight. The whole argument is based around the fact people think its easier to twink out rangers as opposed to warriors. That not necessarily true though. Warriors even clanned warriors do branch exotic weapons. Weapon skills being the hardest skill to train, defense/offense skill isn't very difficult to train, no real twinkage needed either, just read around these forums for some ideas. Sorry but the best warriors in the game, are still warriors, not rangers. This post makes them seem like they are OP with little to no weaknesses and that is just not true. I would really hate for staff (who clearly do read these forums) to see threads like this and be influenced by them, possibly nerfing rangers, the same way someone was saying throwing spears might have gotten nerf. Again, good luck twinking your ranger past the point where my equally twinked out warrior won't three shot you while disarming you. Don't forget one of those strikes will probably come when you try to flee now. I'd be surprised if Stilt lizards haven't been secretly nerfed yet or are being used as twink bait. That would be hilarious if staff came HERE to find out the truth of things, which their own GDB is worthless for. Since who would ever admit having this knowledge over there? |
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Post by Procrastination on Jan 25, 2015 13:39:35 GMT -5
Sharing learned information about the game is sort of the shadowboard's calling. It would almost be silly of them to not respond in some way if the shadowboards point out a glaring flaw, and everyone starts abusing it. Fifty players online usually in game. A great deal of them passing through here. If we say something works, chances are a bunch of people will try it, right or wrong. Figure I'm gonna go convince someone ankheg are the best way to train bash now. That way I'll actually see one nerfed and dead.
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515 
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 25, 2015 14:00:17 GMT -5
I really don't know what to say... Your entire basis for downplaying the OP nature of a ranger is claiming that a ranger has to poison or arrow a warrior before fighting them... Okay, they can do that. So let us suppose that we have a ranger (Elrum) and a warrior (Zarah) and on foot they are 30% chance of winning 70% chance of winning. Now let us add in some factors... 1. Rangers can hide/sneak giving minor advantage to initial attack 2. Rangers can fight mounted giving a bonus against opponent 3. Rangers get flee as a skill and can flee competently 4. Rangers can poison weapons 5. Rangers have access to both throw and archery We go from a 30% winrate for the ranger to at least a 70% winrate (in my opinion). The warrior advantage of being a better toe to toe fighter isn't significant enough to compensate for the rangers ability to ALMOST match them in toe to toe and completely overpower them with any preparation. The power of the warrior vs ranger is at its highest in the early to mid game. It's once the ranger gets parry that it begins to equalize and from that point onward the ranger only draws closer to a 50/50 outright fight and a 70/30 prepared fight. Lets not forget warriors do not get a good forage, do not get direction sense, do not get the ability to craft, do not get a very good ride, do not get poison, do not get the ability to make cures, do not get hide, do not get sneak, do not get scan, do not get listen, do not get climb. The class as a whole is pretty much as much a flavor choice as being a pickpocket. EDIT - I've been loath to make this comparison but I will. In a competitive game like League of Legends or Magic the gathering or Smash bros. There are 'tiers' and these tiers relate to their strength of a champion, card, or character. The way these tiers are often decided is with efficiency. To use a simple example if anyone can win with Meta Knight in smash bros but winning with jiggly puff is hard even for someone who spends all their time playing her, then meta knight is a higher tier because with the same amount of effort you achieve a superior result. Rangers with the same amount of effort as warriors can achieve a superior result not just in combat but in utility. That isn't to say that with every ranger and every warrior it will always pan out that way. I am simply saying that competent players who understand how to grind will achieve more with a ranger than a warrior in the longterm because at the end of the day even the mightiest badass warrior can die to poison that a ranger can put in their food or arrow them or knife throw them or a warrior can be dropped off a cliff by a whiran which a ranger would survive but a warrior wouldn't blah blah blah. (PS - Warriors can't even check their food for poison unlike rangers and assassins  ) 2ND EDIT - To be fair gickers are 1st tier characters, they surpass all others in terms of results for effort. As far as mundanes go Ranger is tied in #1. |
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jan 25, 2015 14:55:38 GMT -5
That would be hilarious if staff came HERE to find out the truth of things, which their own GDB is worthless for. Since who would ever admit having this knowledge over there? yup and everyone laughs until the staff starting fixing all the useful exploits that the more careless posters dont limit to pm |
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Jeshin
GDB Superstar
Posts: 1,515
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Post by Jeshin on Jan 25, 2015 16:13:53 GMT -5
Exploits and balance issues should be addressed. Now whether they do it wisely or not is another story.
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Post by gloryhound on Jan 25, 2015 16:50:19 GMT -5
How about a half-giant magicker. I've considered that as a valid means for such a character to break out of the "friendly idiot who is incapable of planning" mold.
The half-giant might not fully understand, but his elementalist nature could prompt him along the path to accomplish some specific feat. If you think about it, half-giants might even be more amenable to embracing a natural view, compared to other races with their intellectual distractions, ideas and personal goals.
If that was written clearly into the character application and the staff approved it, no one would have a basis for complaint.
I'm done with mages, but maybe someone else would like the idea.
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jkarr
GDB Superstar
Posts: 2,070
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Post by jkarr on Jan 25, 2015 17:27:28 GMT -5
How about a half-giant magicker. I've been considering that as a valid means for such a character to break out of the "friendly idiot who is incapable of planning" mold. The half-giant might not fully understand, but his elementalist nature could prompt him along the path to accomplish some specific feat. If you think about it, half-giants might even be more amenable to embracing a natural view, compared to other races with their intellectual distractions, ideas and personal goals. If that was written clearly into the character application and the staff approved it, no one would have a basis for complaint. there once was a hg rukkian that pretended to be a statue off the side of the highway, think someone else mentioned him here. right up that alley |
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Post by lulz on Jan 25, 2015 20:46:35 GMT -5
My contention is that even with akai picks, the assassin pick isn't good enough to get into most places. I got into most places on a routine basis. Play a max assassin with pick making branched then come back to me. If you'd like some tips, give me a PM and I'll try to help you (regarding pick and how to get very, very good). You are fine with the ripping I gave burglars and pickpockets, right? I don't have a dog in that fight. |
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Post by lulz on Jan 25, 2015 20:47:24 GMT -5
Ranger / Slipknife is just terrible. Agreed. |
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Post by sirra on Jan 25, 2015 20:59:12 GMT -5
How about a half-giant magicker. I've considered that as a valid means for such a character to break out of the "friendly idiot who is incapable of planning" mold. The half-giant might not fully understand, but his elementalist nature could prompt him along the path to accomplish some specific feat. If you think about it, half-giants might even be more amenable to embracing a natural view, compared to other races with their intellectual distractions, ideas and personal goals. If that was written clearly into the character application and the staff approved it, no one would have a basis for complaint. I'm done with mages, but maybe someone else would like the idea. This was addressed very eloquently by another poster on this board, but I can't find it for the life of me. Essentially, half-giants only work for ruks since they can pre-cast. Everyone else gets boned by the low mana. |
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Post by Tektrollnes on Jan 27, 2015 2:51:45 GMT -5
I used to be an adventurer like you..
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Kronibas 2.0
Displaced Tuluki
this account will go inactive once I hit 420 posts
Posts: 389
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Post by Kronibas 2.0 on Jan 27, 2015 11:21:08 GMT -5
Have to factor in that most warriors have higher strength and endurance than rangers while rangers usually have higher agility.
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