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Post by lyse on Oct 4, 2014 10:27:33 GMT -5
I don't see Arm going anywhere any time soon. I think for a 20+ year old MUD, that still crashes often and has stuff in it that nobody knows about still and a steep learning curve having 30+ players during peak is amazing. Coming back to MU*ing after 7-8 years, I've noticed a lot of MUDs and Mushes I used to play simply don't exist anymore but that was starting back when I stopped playing the last time. And those were games that did numbers double what Arm ever did.
The game hit critical mass back in 1998-2001 IMO. That was when the game was the most collaborative between staff and players, which is important for any online game.
While the game doesn't have that same synergy between players and staff, it has something that a lot of MUDs don't: a committed staff (arguably), a commited pbase, and a reputation. The reputation is the most important because people are expecting this harsh world with good RP. I think because of this, it's managed to attract the same number of players that it loses and that's despite the many game killing mistakes it's made over the years.
The thing is if it were ten years ago, the facilitator style of admining might've worked. But the pb literally feels like what they do doesn't matter and anything that they attempt will be met with opposition or fail. There's clan leaders that feel like that, that says a lot. That's something that they can easily fix.
Arm has a certain thing that makes you want to come back. It's got bells and whistles (that combat spam and skill levels), it's got RP (not quite mush level but decent enough), lots of sex (if that's your thing) and violence and a great setting. No other RPI has been able to duplicate that, so it's not going anywhere.
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Post by BitterFlashback on Oct 4, 2014 11:26:47 GMT -5
There seems to be a consensus of some degree that until there is an alternative, Arm won't close for lack of any other outlet. Would that outlet have to be an RPI styled game? Is there some other crucial element that would be required? I dont agree Arm will survive until there's an alternative. But I do agree an alternative would greatly speed up its death. so i suppose that might be a degree of agreement. As to its competition? i think one of the main selling points of Arm is it appears like a game where you're thriving in the face of a dying world. (its reality is something quite different.) It gives your role playing a sort of success-against-the-odds feel when you get into it, which is very appealing. If i had to cite a problem with Black Sands as an Arm alternative (and i'm not ripping on Black sands for this) it's that the danger of the world always felt distant. Like you could choose not to be in danger. Same thing with SoI waaay back when I played it. With Arm youre pretty much always feel some degree of danger. unless you're an immpet. but they don't count. So for an alternative you need to capture that same sense of danger being present from both PCs and NPCs but also present a world where a player can genuinely make their own way. |
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Post by topkekm8s on Oct 4, 2014 11:40:16 GMT -5
In my experience once games start talking about player population and bandying about phrases like "dead game", the game usually never recovers, or is never the same. I think its fallacious to think that just because the mud has been around for twenty years its always going to be around.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 11:54:50 GMT -5
It's more the fact that if those numbers are valid and the game really sports 35ish players in the evening on many occasions and not just on thanksgiving weekends and such, they've lost something like 30% of their pbase in about a year. I can't actually verify that it is often 35 or if that was an outlier, but if it's normal, that's really bad. Since an admin responded that it was normal to see 35 online on a Friday evening, I've no reason to believe otherwise.
The only time I can remember ever seeing under 40 online in the evening was right after the Reborn announcement, back in 2007 or whenever, where it was really low for a couple of weeks before picking back up. Was it even a year ago that they had that big recruitment drive and clocked 60-70ish at peak for some time? 30 players for an ancient text-based game may be impressive with no context, but losing that many players in that little time is REALLY bad.
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Post by topkekm8s on Oct 4, 2014 12:07:46 GMT -5
and its pretty obvious who alienated those players
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Post by gloryhound on Oct 4, 2014 13:51:25 GMT -5
Could it be that this board is a major factor in the decline?
1) Tearing away the veil of mystery for many things. Players can't help themselves but read about all the mages spells and such. Then start feeling meh because the game seems to lose its sense of unknown possibilities.
2) Conversations about staff and trends on Arm aren't suppressed here. People talk and realize it's not just them. Reading about other peoples' experiences adds to their disillusionment and disgruntlement, so they fall away.
3) Potential new players come here, read some rants and flee instead of ever creating characters.
How long has it been since the board opened to the public? A year?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 14:08:31 GMT -5
I hope not. I don't know about the rest of you bitter fucks, but I truly want this game to pull itself out of this rut. I dislike Nyr as much as the next guy, but I won't get any kind of schadenfreude out of it if Armageddon crashes and burns because of him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 14:21:38 GMT -5
Could it be that this board is a major factor in the decline? 1) Tearing away the veil of mystery for many things. Players can't help themselves but read about all the mages spells and such. Then start feeling meh because the game seems to lose its sense of unknown possibilities. 2) Conversations about staff and trends on Arm aren't suppressed here. People talk and realize it's not just them. Reading about other peoples' experiences adds to their disillusionment and disgruntlement, so they fall away. 3) Potential new players come here, read some rants and flee instead of ever creating characters. How long has it been since the board opened to the public? A year? That makes logical sense, but doesn't mesh with the conversations I've had with over a dozen former players. Is your experience different? |
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Post by BitterFlashback on Oct 4, 2014 14:35:35 GMT -5
Could it be that this board is a major factor in the decline? Id say this board is a symptom of the decline, not the cause. If we were pro-actively making an attempt to sink Arm I'd agree with you. But most of what youll find on this this board is reactive to the continued goings on over there. I would agree we may be a minor cause thouh. 1) Tearing away the veil of mystery for many things. Players can't help themselves but read about all the mages spells and such. Then start feeling meh because the game seems to lose its sense of unknown possibilities. This could only be true for people who are 1) new and 2) would have been disheartened when they figured out the staff kill possibilities first-hand. 2) Conversations about staff and trends on Arm aren't suppressed here. People talk and realize it's not just them. Reading about other peoples' experiences adds to their disillusionment and disgruntlement, so they fall away. Are there really people who will just suffer forever because they think they're the only ones? Im seriously asking. As a naturally independent person i don't base my interpretation of if I am miserable in a given situation based on if other people seem miserable. But with that said, there's definitely an argument you could make that this board would cause people with issues to go totally pessimistic. I can see someone starting Arm, having problems, and finding this board after the GDb's aggressively unhelpful attitude drives them to the web for answers. And then come away way more negative towards Arm when they arrived and quit early, because they discover what the can look forward to are a plethora of dismissive behaviors and random punishments. 3) Potential new players come here, read some rants and flee instead of ever creating characters. It's a possibility, but I don't think most people do that much side research prior to playing a MUD. They probably see Arm on mud connector and just jump into it. Maybe they use the official site. But I can't think of any MUD i considered playing where i decided to see if I could find people trash talking it anywhere on the internet prior to trying it and getting pissed off myself. How long has it been since the board opened to the public? A year? I think it's been two yeas.
I hope not. I don't know about the rest of you bitter fucks, but I truly want this game to pull itself out of this rut. As someone aiming for the bitterest fuck award, i can say i'd like Arm to be what it always could have been. that's not going to happen because some of the most problematic people are unremovable staffers. |
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Oct 4, 2014 14:58:41 GMT -5
I've said this before the fact that they don't give Darksun any credit and they still claim they have broken away from it has always irritated me to no end. I think that's a big reason people play and then eventually quit as well. I was never satisfied with their rendition of my favorite campaign and once you discover DS (if you hadn't known about it before arm) then you become disenchanted by Arms lackluster version of it.
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delerak
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"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
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Post by delerak on Oct 4, 2014 15:04:30 GMT -5
Arm 01-03 for me  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 16:04:31 GMT -5
Never played DS, never heard of it before I started playing Arm. Was never a tabletop gamer. I started playing because it said it was inspired in part by Dune which I read and enjoyed. I can see lots of Dunesque things about Arm that keeps me enjoying it. I don't give a rat's ass if it's an offshoot of Dark Sun, the exact same thing, similar, or a bastardization of it. I play it for what it is, not for what it isn't.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2014 16:58:55 GMT -5
It's more the fact that if those numbers are valid and the game really sports 35ish players in the evening on many occasions and not just on thanksgiving weekends and such, they've lost something like 30% of their pbase in about a year. I can't actually verify that it is often 35 or if that was an outlier, but if it's normal, that's really bad. Since an admin responded that it was normal to see 35 online on a Friday evening, I've no reason to believe otherwise. The only time I can remember ever seeing under 40 online in the evening was right after the Reborn announcement, back in 2007 or whenever, where it was really low for a couple of weeks before picking back up. Was it even a year ago that they had that big recruitment drive and clocked 60-70ish at peak for some time? 30 players for an ancient text-based game may be impressive with no context, but losing that many players in that little time is REALLY bad. And that long ass post of comparative numbers that I posted suggested pretty much this same thing over a slower timeline, but still showed it. That's why I simply couldn't help screenshotting that pic to post here. |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Oct 4, 2014 17:06:52 GMT -5
I've said this before the fact that they don't give Darksun any credit and they still claim they have broken away from it has always irritated me to no end. I think that's a big reason people play and then eventually quit as well. I was never satisfied with their rendition of my favorite campaign and once you discover DS (if you hadn't known about it before arm) then you become disenchanted by Arms lackluster version of it. yup a large part of its appeal was its basis in the ds campaign setting esp in its early days when other muds either did the big three (fr dl and lotr) or other offshoot fantasy themes. there werent as many other muds that did ds and arm provided the only rpheavy outlet for that setting. i can see where u could get irritated del but yea there response to ur post dovetailed real well with the eotw shit that allowed them to kill off some clear ds refs so they could scrape by not having to credit ds for if that became necessary |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Oct 4, 2014 17:40:39 GMT -5
How long has it been since the board opened to the public? A year? I think it's been two yeas. nah its been and year and maybe a some change cuz jc opened them up to everyone a few months before anaiah rebelled from the sun legions |
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