Post by dcdc on Jun 1, 2014 19:20:23 GMT -5
I was spamming up the shout box talking about c-elves. Felt I might as well make a thread to discuss when the documentation doesn't work.
I don't feel the c-elves work currently, entire race of thieving sociopaths that don't trust anyone (even each other unless of the same "tribe") just doesn't work.
As of now, personally, they're already all these barriers in terms of pc's interacting on any level. Play times, cliques, and documentation. (OOC motivations aside, but those can be big when trying to get a character involved)
The concept is solid, up till elves distrust elves unless of the same tribe. That's really silly, and makes any chance to work together rather unrealistic (lulz loyalty tests!). I feel two city elves, regardless of tribeless or virtual tribe, would generally, on the whole, trust each other enough to work together. Trust each other to the point that isn't much need for a "loyalty test", except for the trust any normal sentient creature builds over time spent. It's silly to force all these potential characters into lone, prideful thief. You're a c-elf, you basically can only play their very certain way with little variation.
Further to the point, being the only gemmed during a certain play time fucking sucks. People complain about twinky OP mages, but the reason we have that, is because player interaction can be so limited. Why not fucking spam cast 3 hours every night at the temple? what the fuck else can I do? emote chaffing from my crying furious masturbation sessions?
For example, sometimes I role a ranger or warrior, I hardly get time to skill up some days. In fact I gotta log in on off peak just to get the chance. Shit can start happening with a human character real quick. So fast that you can't twink, people want to involve other pc's and when documentation isn't in the way, they're going to do it, the more players you can stuff in the clan/group the better chance its going to be awesome.
I don't claim to know the best way approach it while still maintaining the very important atmosphere (elves are shady, magick is fucking dangerous). Yet there is some very real barriers that prevent even basic interactions.
Magick for me is difficult, how do you maintain its mystique while allowing a wide range of possible scenario's to happen? I would love to input from this.
C-elves just needs a little bit of the doc relaxed, maybe a couple more clans to join as tradesmen, and the ability to trust other elves enough. (Besides just more folks playing elves).
A good example is human/human interaction, is pretty open, even with social barriers. It's possible to be a human, and actually fuck some one over and them NOT see it coming. In most cases other players don't always expect another human character to fuck over their clan/plans/ or themselves. So there can be this real element of surprise, a chance for some good nature conflict. There is no doc or social norm blocking this, its possible, and it can make it fun. Everyone likes a sudden betrayal.
elf/human? HELLL NO. Doc's state human's don't trust elves PERIOD. So why hire them? Why drink with them? Why do anything with them? Why not Kill on sight? You are already pre-warned that this elf is almost REQUIRED to steal from you. and you are REQUIRED to distrust them. It's fucking silly. You killed any chance of any meaningful plots right out the gate with a overly zealous and very narrow view of an entire race of sentient humanoids. As if there was not individual difference between the lot of them.
Half-elves and dwarves don't have this problem. People might openly dislike them, and generally they are consider less then human, but there is avenues in which to hire and work with them, in most clans.
Half-elves desire to be accepted, this generally isn't much of a secret. Human leaders will use that fact as a solid reason for giving one a job. The sad part is, most Half-elves usually desire to be accepted by HUMANS only. Why? No reason other then, more players play human characters because human characters have avenues in which to get involved in plots. city elves? Not so much. So as very sad by product, all half-elves generally desire to be human (this is a theme I've notice among half-elf players). It's not fault of the players, but of the documentation on city elves. Elves don't trust elves, let alone a half elf, not like there will be many pc elves to interact with anyways.
A dwarf might be a second class citizen, but again focus, and their reputation for that, makes them desirable. If a dwarf's focus aligns with a desired plot? It's fucking magic. No one thinks the dwarf is a thief, no one suspects the dwarf to steal from them (whether that's true or not). No one bats an eye at a dwarf mercenary or hunter, same with half elf.
City elf? Fuck you, docs state you're a thief, and I now that OOC that you are, because doc's REQUIRE you to be that way. City elf? Fuck you, I know you don't trust me, so I don't trust you, because OOC doc's state thats the case.
It just furthers the running point of these boards. Parts of Armageddon are broken and they should focus on creative ways to fix THAT instead of worrying the size of Tuluk. So what you gotta walk nine extra rooms for mud sex? Just don't mud sex that elf, doc's state you can't trust them, so you don't.
/end rant, maybe my focus is all fucked up, too much green tea.
I don't feel the c-elves work currently, entire race of thieving sociopaths that don't trust anyone (even each other unless of the same "tribe") just doesn't work.
As of now, personally, they're already all these barriers in terms of pc's interacting on any level. Play times, cliques, and documentation. (OOC motivations aside, but those can be big when trying to get a character involved)
The concept is solid, up till elves distrust elves unless of the same tribe. That's really silly, and makes any chance to work together rather unrealistic (lulz loyalty tests!). I feel two city elves, regardless of tribeless or virtual tribe, would generally, on the whole, trust each other enough to work together. Trust each other to the point that isn't much need for a "loyalty test", except for the trust any normal sentient creature builds over time spent. It's silly to force all these potential characters into lone, prideful thief. You're a c-elf, you basically can only play their very certain way with little variation.
Further to the point, being the only gemmed during a certain play time fucking sucks. People complain about twinky OP mages, but the reason we have that, is because player interaction can be so limited. Why not fucking spam cast 3 hours every night at the temple? what the fuck else can I do? emote chaffing from my crying furious masturbation sessions?
For example, sometimes I role a ranger or warrior, I hardly get time to skill up some days. In fact I gotta log in on off peak just to get the chance. Shit can start happening with a human character real quick. So fast that you can't twink, people want to involve other pc's and when documentation isn't in the way, they're going to do it, the more players you can stuff in the clan/group the better chance its going to be awesome.
I don't claim to know the best way approach it while still maintaining the very important atmosphere (elves are shady, magick is fucking dangerous). Yet there is some very real barriers that prevent even basic interactions.
Magick for me is difficult, how do you maintain its mystique while allowing a wide range of possible scenario's to happen? I would love to input from this.
C-elves just needs a little bit of the doc relaxed, maybe a couple more clans to join as tradesmen, and the ability to trust other elves enough. (Besides just more folks playing elves).
A good example is human/human interaction, is pretty open, even with social barriers. It's possible to be a human, and actually fuck some one over and them NOT see it coming. In most cases other players don't always expect another human character to fuck over their clan/plans/ or themselves. So there can be this real element of surprise, a chance for some good nature conflict. There is no doc or social norm blocking this, its possible, and it can make it fun. Everyone likes a sudden betrayal.
elf/human? HELLL NO. Doc's state human's don't trust elves PERIOD. So why hire them? Why drink with them? Why do anything with them? Why not Kill on sight? You are already pre-warned that this elf is almost REQUIRED to steal from you. and you are REQUIRED to distrust them. It's fucking silly. You killed any chance of any meaningful plots right out the gate with a overly zealous and very narrow view of an entire race of sentient humanoids. As if there was not individual difference between the lot of them.
Half-elves and dwarves don't have this problem. People might openly dislike them, and generally they are consider less then human, but there is avenues in which to hire and work with them, in most clans.
Half-elves desire to be accepted, this generally isn't much of a secret. Human leaders will use that fact as a solid reason for giving one a job. The sad part is, most Half-elves usually desire to be accepted by HUMANS only. Why? No reason other then, more players play human characters because human characters have avenues in which to get involved in plots. city elves? Not so much. So as very sad by product, all half-elves generally desire to be human (this is a theme I've notice among half-elf players). It's not fault of the players, but of the documentation on city elves. Elves don't trust elves, let alone a half elf, not like there will be many pc elves to interact with anyways.
A dwarf might be a second class citizen, but again focus, and their reputation for that, makes them desirable. If a dwarf's focus aligns with a desired plot? It's fucking magic. No one thinks the dwarf is a thief, no one suspects the dwarf to steal from them (whether that's true or not). No one bats an eye at a dwarf mercenary or hunter, same with half elf.
City elf? Fuck you, docs state you're a thief, and I now that OOC that you are, because doc's REQUIRE you to be that way. City elf? Fuck you, I know you don't trust me, so I don't trust you, because OOC doc's state thats the case.
It just furthers the running point of these boards. Parts of Armageddon are broken and they should focus on creative ways to fix THAT instead of worrying the size of Tuluk. So what you gotta walk nine extra rooms for mud sex? Just don't mud sex that elf, doc's state you can't trust them, so you don't.
/end rant, maybe my focus is all fucked up, too much green tea.
