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Post by sirra on Nov 21, 2015 22:00:32 GMT -5
I would turn around and bet that from your irrational hatefulness that you're probably Kaineus. For myself, I didn't feel the need to hide behind anonymity, I came straight out and said who I've played. I'm not afraid of an internet bully, sir or madam or whatever you are. Just stop humblebragging and claiming I'm making stuff up. No one cares what level of karma an innocuous little mundane reaches, whose never gone past advanced weapons, and is no threat to anyone. I deliberately aimed my comments at those who are seriously considering trying to maximize their Offense/Defense and weapon skills using the information presented here, and the possible consequences of doing so (absent a streak of extraordinary good luck). This is the forum for seeking honest answers. Not coy GDB circle jerks. Your post was extremely misleading to anyone that didn't read your followups and got a fuller picture. And it was EXTREMELY typical of the kind of misinformation that gets spread on the GDB. There's a place for people that are perfectly content with shitty-skilled mundane characters, and who don't care about coded power. It's not a thread about twinking offense/defense and weapon skills. That's not bullying. If I was gonna bully you, I'd call you a faggot. But I didn't. So untwist your knickers. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 22:02:14 GMT -5
I do want to get a master weapon skill the hard way, one day. And I agree that there's a ton of fuckery involved. It's a turn off to any player who isn't attracted to that style of play.
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Post by sirra on Nov 21, 2015 22:03:39 GMT -5
I do want to get a master weapon skill the hard way, one day. And I agree that there's a ton of fuckery involved. It's a turn off to any player who isn't attracted to that style of play. Fair enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 22:04:07 GMT -5
Sirra, I'd rather not talk to you, to be frank. You're hostile, paranoid and rude, and I feel like we just met, so. Jesus. Most likely you'll go your way, and I'll go mine. Done, easy, finished.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 22:06:21 GMT -5
So, Pro, do you think there's any alternative method that doesn't involve buttfucking a stilt lizard while you crunch data and stare at your watch? Is it completely fucked?
More or less, is it only obtainable realistically through questionable PVE?
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Post by Procrastination on Nov 22, 2015 0:12:05 GMT -5
If you seek it within a reasonable amount of time, and you're using PvE, then yes, it will be questionable. If you're clanned with the right people, PvP can be your nonquestionable way to attain it (drills are there for a reason in clans). And I'm not talking about the Byn. People die too fast, so they'll not give you the misses you need.
I'd say through non-questionable PvE, you can get to advanced pretty simply. Master, branching, and then taking the next skill up to a useful level is the point where you're going to see trouble. IE-Tridents after having gotten piercing to master.
Come hang out in the Discord some time. We'll chill. Tell you a few things.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2015 11:20:21 GMT -5
So if you're trying to maximize weapon gains would you ever really want to fist fight? I mean, it would just raise your base O which you want low to get misses correct?
Sparring weapons are bad for raising weapon skills but do they still raise base O, base D, parry and shield at normal rates?
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Post by sirra on Nov 22, 2015 11:34:20 GMT -5
So if you're trying to maximize weapon gains would you ever really want to fist fight? I mean, it would just raise your base O which you want low to get misses correct? Sparring weapons are bad for raising weapon skills but do they still raise base O, base D, parry and shield at normal rates? Fist fighting, not raising weapon skills, is how you actually become a great fighter. If you're a ranger, you'll be able to raise all your weapons to mastery regardless of your offense. Past a certain point, you'll need to rely almost exclusively on blind-fighting and using scan to attack hidden creatures. It's the same with warriors, but who presumably, their true end game, is getting an advanced weapon high. You're going to need to do twinky, stupid things, no matter what, to master a weapon skill. Because the game has been designed in such a way as to be impossible to master a weapon without doing twinky, stupid things. This goes doubly for branching advanced weapons. In that sense, you shouldn't be worried about raising Offense, because you'll need to do the same things regardless. To be safe and to avoid frustration, assume that sparing weapons are worthless past apprentice. Although getting hit with them still raises your Defense, and they do raise parry to max/dual wield to max. Anyone that says you want a low offense, btw, doesn't know what they're talking about. Offense takes such a long time to max out (longer than a weapon skill) that it is perfectly self-defeating to avoid raising it. |
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Post by Procrastination on Nov 22, 2015 12:18:30 GMT -5
Here is where it comes down to opinion I think. I never bare handed fight. Getting your weapon skills up gets your base offense up just by fact of misses. At a certain point you'll stop missing with a well trained weapon skill and at that point you may be moving onto a new weapon skill instead and finding misses while there for your base offense. You box for your defense. Has little to do with offense. It CAN be used to guarantee offense skill ups, but you won't be struggling to get those until you're long mastered in many weapon types.
So I shouldn't say I never do it. But I can say that I don't until I have parry at the very least. Its for defense.
Only use boxing for offense in the way late game. You can box after a weapon sparring session just to make sure you got a defense fail if nothing.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Nov 22, 2015 12:53:31 GMT -5
Would it be advisable to start out using two-handed on a ranger to raise defense since it doesn't automatically branch parry?
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Post by Procrastination on Nov 22, 2015 13:07:57 GMT -5
Not my suggestion, in fact. Take dual wield to late journeyman, then fuck off for a time with two hand, then go back to dual wielding to get those last few points to branch. Its a bit of guess work but you'll find that better than putting in a request to branch parry. Unless you've no intention at all to raise dual wield. In which case, that'd be a redundant question.
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Post by Procrastination on Nov 22, 2015 13:11:49 GMT -5
I suppose if you intend to master two handed anyhow, which you should as a ranger, you might hold off on asking for the parry even after master and take your time. It'll keep you weak longer but you'll be stronger for it in the end.
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Post by Prime Minister Sinister on Nov 22, 2015 13:23:13 GMT -5
I suppose if you intend to master two handed anyhow, which you should as a ranger, you might hold off on asking for the parry even after master and take your time. It'll keep you weak longer but you'll be stronger for it in the end. Basically what I was thinking about doing. 2handed2gud |
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Post by sirra on Nov 22, 2015 13:28:34 GMT -5
Here is where it comes down to opinion I think. I never bare handed fight. Getting your weapon skills up gets your base offense up just by fact of misses. At a certain point you'll stop missing with a well trained weapon skill and at that point you may be moving onto a new weapon skill instead and finding misses while there for your base offense. You box for your defense. Has little to do with offense. It CAN be used to guarantee offense skill ups, but you won't be struggling to get those until you're long mastered in many weapon types. So I shouldn't say I never do it. But I can say that I don't until I have parry at the very least. Its for defense. Only use boxing for offense in the way late game. You can box after a weapon sparring session just to make sure you got a defense fail if nothing. In all likelihood, if you never bare hand fight, you have probably never had an obscenely powerful, coded mundane character. We seem to have different definitions of what we consider late game as well. For me, getting to the point where I can't miss anyone or anything with ANY weapon, is only the very start of the mid-game. I suppose if you intend to master two handed anyhow, which you should as a ranger, you might hold off on asking for the parry even after master and take your time. It'll keep you weak longer but you'll be stronger for it in the end. This is also bad advice. Because if you seriously want to twink a character, you will want to raise dual wield no matter what. Dual wield is a great way of eking out more misses on certain critters, and it's also VERY important for unarmed combat. So you're going to raise dual wield regardless, and you shouldn't (and shouldn't have to) ask staff for anything. Beyond that, two-handed only raises on misses. There's been some bad information out there about it raising from attack speed or something. That's completely false, and I've tested it repeatedly since hearing it. You must get a miss. And once you reach advanced, there's no other way to get misses but through blindfighting. Or else, I guess, sparring the very very very best player in the game, but you'll still mostly get parried by them. All this advice about people intentionally staying weak, or avoiding boxing, or worrying about their offense and defense. It's so misguided. If you just want to be a 'good' fighter, then do whatever you want, and you'll get to a place where you're decentish eventually. If you want to be a GREAT fighter, and want to do things like master a weapon (I mean not just branch it at 60, but get it allll the way to 70), or hell, train up a branched weapon...You're going to have to do some specific, twinky things REGARDLESS of your offense or defense. So in the end, you're just harming yourself either way. Either you only care about being an all right fighter, in which case just play your character as normal and you'll be just like kmart, getting an advanced weapon skill now and then, and nothing else. Or you want to be a twink, and in which case, your offense REALLY won't matter. You just want it as high as possible, as it won't affect your training regimen. If you can still get misses using ANY weapon without blindfighting or fighting silt striders, then you've still got a very long ways to go. |
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Post by sirra on Nov 22, 2015 13:43:46 GMT -5
And there's no such thing as having a better fighter sherpa you to greatness. They can sherpa you to goodness, but that's it, sparring wise. Sparring VERY quickly becomes entirely worthless, and anyone still benefiting from sparring is still in the early game. Very quickly, the only benefit you get from other players is from boxing. This is usually around the time parrying/shield use gets maxed out.
You might be able to continue working dual wield on some veteran characters for a little while, but you're much better off boxing and focusing on kick/bash/disarm (if you're a warrior).
It's very easy to tell in this thread who's actually had a powerful character in the past, and who just thinks they know what they're talking about.
The guy really benefiting from sparring, aside from the rawest recruit, is the monster whose base OFfense/Defense has been twinked high enough, to simply box people who are using sparring weapons. Once you get to that point, your Off/Def really skyrocket, and the game becomes a whole different experience. If you've never been to the point where you can comfortably box an armed opponent (with journeyman+ weapon skills) and defeat them easily, then you've never had a truly potent mundane.
Worrying about your off/def getting too high is utterly silly. You want it as high as possible, and to raise it as much as possible, from day one. It will not meaningfully affect your ability to master a weapon.
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