grumble
GDB Superstar
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Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Jul 1, 2016 15:00:38 GMT -5
YAAAAAY! Now I won't be the only one triple-posting anymore!
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Najniaj
Clueless newb
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Post by Najniaj on Jul 5, 2016 14:53:46 GMT -5
Not worth a thread -
Hello. I had a random thought about ARM and I am now back. Were back semi-recently, about three, four weeks ago.
The first thing I noticed was how the population doesn't seem to be booming, at least not from where I am currently playing from. Then I walked into a tavern, struggled for five minutes as I remembered the syntax and felt right at home, especially after three separate people with really unique, colorful and exciting descriptions snubbed me.
I'm a devout sadomasochist when it comes to Arm, in a very intimate, underground sort of way. I'm going to start playing again, randomly, because nostalgia.
How's things?
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Post by lyse on Jul 5, 2016 17:20:20 GMT -5
Arm has always been a game of who you're playing with. Sometimes you end up in a clan or city where people interact with you and were willing to simply play off each other just to be entertained. Now it's more like "motherfucker entertain me or I'm logging out." Or you can end up in a clan where people are doing all those things. So you can either have a soul sucking dead world or a lively experience. It seems to have gone the way of people playing in small groups in their little hideyholes.
I think over time people just stopped talking and interacting with people they don't know. But that's pretty much a thing on most games now; or at least they're going to wait to see what you're going to do first.
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Najniaj
Clueless newb
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Post by Najniaj on Jul 6, 2016 4:23:21 GMT -5
When you think about it, it is a large part of why the game is so toxic towards newbies. Which is such a shame.
I lost all my notes. The last time I played was three computers ago. Now, I am missing a whole pile of maps and recipes. Not to mention how 99% of people I knew must be dead. Though that is OK because I do not remember them either without the notes. We persevere.
Is there any recent major change I should be aware of, code wise? I hesitate to dive into the General Boards.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
Posts: 1,619
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Post by grumble on Jul 6, 2016 8:20:33 GMT -5
I run on memory alone. I have no maps, no recipes, no spreadsheets.
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Post by latrineswimmer on Jul 6, 2016 19:57:01 GMT -5
I used to use maps. Now I run on amphetamines alone.
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Post by lyse on Jul 6, 2016 20:19:04 GMT -5
When you think about it, it is a large part of why the game is so toxic towards newbies. Which is such a shame. I lost all my notes. The last time I played was three computers ago. Now, I am missing a whole pile of maps and recipes. Not to mention how 99% of people I knew must be dead. Though that is OK because I do not remember them either without the notes. We persevere. Is there any recent major change I should be aware of, code wise? I hesitate to dive into the General Boards. I don't think it's toxic towards newbies, I think it's very accommodating to newbies. So much so a lot of veterans pretend to be newbies, just to take advantage. Either people will be tripping over themselves to have you join their clan or they won't even shoot a pose your way. The gdb is pretty quiet, except for the usual passive aggressive stuff that usually goes on. They also started posting "release notes" about most changes. Everything is pretty much unchanged as far as the landscape, some blue plant might be three spaces over, but that's about it. One thing that might matter is if your watch isn't high enough you won't notice when someone looks at you. |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Jul 7, 2016 1:55:51 GMT -5
One thing that might matter is if your watch isn't high enough you won't notice when someone looks at you. one of the stupidest changes they put in this year. seeing that the main complaint was that it was too spammy, a fucking look brief toggle couldve made all looks default to hemotes when its turned on |
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Najniaj
Clueless newb
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Post by Najniaj on Jul 7, 2016 4:51:22 GMT -5
I don't think it's toxic towards newbies, I think it's very accommodating to newbies. So much so a lot of veterans pretend to be newbies, just to take advantage. Either people will be tripping over themselves to have you join their clan or they won't even shoot a pose your way. In a fair few years of playing, I've only (mostly) seen the latter. My own experience was that Armageddon was one of the most difficult games I've ever had to get into. A world that wants to kill you at every step, next to no available information about how to play the game, a mostly hostile, incestuous playerbase on a mostly pointless forum, uncaring, deaf admins, cliques and OOC friend circles ruling all meaningful rp and a combat system built in such a way that I need be be decently high to even attempt to try and work with it. Not that I disagree completely but in what way is it accommodating? Can you even use that word when talking about Arm? - Also: Thank you for the information! To be honest, the look thing sounds like a change with relatively little effect, all in all. It would have been more graceful to solve it with a toggle but... It's not that bad. |
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Post by lyse on Jul 7, 2016 9:03:49 GMT -5
jkarr I agree, it also helped to let you know if someone was idle or not.
Najniaj, Arm is super accomodating to newbies as long as you aren't trying to solo beetles at one day played. The world is harsh sure, if you don't run from aggro things, don't know how to get food and water, etc. But those are obstacles you can easily overcome. And like I said, all of those things could be true, its more of who you're playing with. You could be logging on off peak, when the only people playing only care about skilling up. You could be playing in a clan where the staff isn't interested in you or quite frankly neither are the players. You could log onto the gdb and believe the complete and utter bullshit some off them are talking about. Over the years though, I've noticed if you find the right people to play with someone will take your hand and show you. They might not tell you codedly how to skill up or find water, but they will tell you in the context of the game.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
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Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Jul 7, 2016 10:45:12 GMT -5
I like that look is a hemote now.
EDIT: Look spam would get absurd at RPTs and HRPTS... not only that, it's not really always a thing you SHOULD notice. If people seem idle because you can't see them look at you, then mayhaps the other player needs to up their game a little bit. Plus, this gives yet another way to get scan fails, WITHOUT having to poke your head down Hathor's (and risk getting it chopped off).
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Najniaj
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Post by Najniaj on Jul 7, 2016 14:23:49 GMT -5
Lyse, what you're saying is that the community can be accommodating, if you find the right people, which is absolutely true. You've noticed and learned the ropes over the years. Actual years. And once you did, the game was easy and fun.
None of that matters to a brand new player, who, upon logging into a roleplaying game, expects people to want to engage in roleplay. Or people who would help a newbie. Or staff that wants to help, guide, explain and seem proud of what they've created. Or a forum where he can ask a question without having dance around a myriad subjects he does not know of like so many landmines. Or even a tutorial. Something. Anything.
Armageddon tells you to 'learn' the game - And forbids you to know the rules.
Starting and sticking with Arm was an incredibly frustrating, alienating experience for me in the context of an RPG. I'm certain it's the same for many, many people that have tried their hand at it.
(I like being abused over Telnet so I liked it unconditionally but not everyone has my kinks.)
Of course, this is very old news on a subject that's been moot since the 90's. I'm just happy I stuck with it and pity the people that have to go through acclimatization.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Jul 7, 2016 14:40:58 GMT -5
Starting and sticking with Arm was an incredibly frustrating, alienating experience for me in the context of an RPG. I'm certain it's the same for many, many people that have tried their hand at it. (I like being abused over Telnet so I liked it unconditionally but not everyone has my kinks.) Of course, this is very old news on a subject that's been moot since the 90's. I'm just happy I stuck with it and pity the people that have to go through acclimatization. the bolded part may highlight the generational divide in the expectations of new players now versus a decade and more prior who welcomed and even entered the game because of the handsoff approach to learning the game in that way i cant blame arm staff doing more and more shit to appease to this new generation into staying when theyve been so eager to bleed out the veterans who are vocal about adding context to these decades of changes in game attitudes and policies |
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Najniaj
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Post by Najniaj on Jul 7, 2016 15:07:31 GMT -5
I don't think this is entirely about a change in player mentality, jkarr or about any sort of generational divide. Looking at the short list I wrote on those very expectations, above, I don't think they're unreasonable to the point where only the pampered 'new' generation of players could expect them.
In fact, they're simple, essential things that most communities based around a game have and have 'always' had, be it golf, competitive bridge, roleplaying or geocaching.
You expect to know the rules to a game you will play.
You expect to be taught, some questions answered, or even just nudged in the right direction.
You expect fair arbitrage. It is a game, after all.
You expect interaction within the game - and normally, that need for interaction is a two-way street.
I started playing arm 5-6 years ago for the first time, and I was well into adulthood by then... and my expectations were the same.
EDIT: I'd love to see chart with average and median player ages over the years. Armageddon remains a relatively obscure game to the new generation and even more so to the 'newest'.
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grumble
GDB Superstar
toxic shithead
Destroyer of Worlds
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Post by grumble on Jul 7, 2016 16:45:59 GMT -5
Honestly, I rarely had problems finding IC help, and once I had the gist of what I was doing, I went out of my way to help newbs that were trying to get into the game, sometimes bending some background rules to do so, both with interaction and information... but not all players are like that, can't expect them to be. Handholding newbs is tedious, the more the text explains the rules, mechanics, what have you, the less I have to go through the motions of dunking new players into the experience.
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