shenzi
staff puppet account
Posts: 3
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Post by shenzi on Oct 23, 2024 1:10:56 GMT -5
Usiku coming in to paint the last three staff members as bullied victims? Mind blown. Here comes Armageddon’s own version of the Dead Three fighting for control of the elderbrain, as the chaos spills from the shadow realm into the real world—completely bonkers. Especially when you consider that Usiku mocked my mental health in the same way she suggests this board needs to shut down because it’s "old and weird." The cognitive dissonance? Off the charts. Saying “BULLYING ISN’T HARMLESS” in one breath and then questioning someone’s sanity for reporting harassment in the next? Classic “do as I say, not as I do.” I think I was fairly reasonable, and it was just a singular response to yet another attack you had launched at the game and staffing team, months after the fact? And no. I don't class myself as one of the victims. This whole ordeal has been enlightening though. If you can imagine it, I was not aware that essentially half the playerbase was OOCly connected and sharing everything, obviously we knew there were groups, but not the extent. I wasn't ever cool enough to be part of any of those cliques I guess. I also have absolutely zero clue what mehtastic is talking about re. having reported stuff and things, with screenshots, via proper channels and getting brushed off. But as with anything.. there have been so many different staffing teams. We are not the same people. There have been over 600 staff members for Armageddon (isn't that nuts?), shockingly, we are all different.
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Post by pinkerdlu on Oct 23, 2024 1:35:14 GMT -5
You created an impossible situation for people ill equipped to know how to deal with it, and the expectation of them being able to deal with it appropriately was nigh on ridiculous. Fair enough. Now apply this to more situations; like running a dynamic MUD. This whole ordeal has been enlightening though. If you can imagine it, I was not aware that essentially half the playerbase was OOCly connected and sharing everything, obviously we knew there were groups, but not the extent. I wasn't ever cool enough to be part of any of those cliques I guess. I mean, you were cool enough to a part of the biggest and most powerful clique, the staff team. Kinda squandered that though, didn't you? Or you can stick to the idea that your execution of Seasons was... actually kinda awesome. If that's the case, you have a long way to go for True Enlightenment. If you had actually engaged with the community over here on the Shadowboards, I feel like there's a lot that could've been smoothed out. We had similar interests, wanting to fix the game. I suppose you'll never see it that way, and it's too late for that at any rate. Now, I have 3 questions for you. 1. Are you African? 2. Why did you name this account after the hyena that did Scar's bidding? Does Halaster = Scar? Do you plan to devour him? Do you see the irony in this? 3. Did you like when I called you a rat using the request tool?
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najdorf
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 265
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Post by najdorf on Oct 23, 2024 2:31:20 GMT -5
Usiku's avatar on gdb and elsewhere is also a Hyena, so it's not something new
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baron
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
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Post by baron on Oct 23, 2024 4:08:42 GMT -5
The reason your ban remains in place and will not be revoked is demonstrated right here. So you're not going to unban bebop (or presumably the other whistleblowers) from a game...that no longer exists. And you're lording that over them, like a queen in her high castle gazing down on the unruly peasents. I do not know all the sordid details. I bloody well don't want to know. But you're right that game masters in a silly amateur run internet elf game shouldn't be expected to have the education, wisdom, experience to deal with complex real life issues. Except the issue isn't all that complex. At heart, the problem is that the secrecy of the game enabled awful behavior. And here you are still complaining about people communicating with each other, as if that was the problem. Oh no! Half of everyone was talking about a video game in spaces you don't control! The fucking horror of it! People talking to each other! They might say things you don't want them to say!! And so, it falls me to to roleplay the king in the high castle. I'm older than you. I played the game for longer. Thusly, with divine mandate, I gaze upon thee, little unruly peasant, and declare you, Usiku, BANNED. You may no longer play Armageddon. Mostly because it's dead and buried. ha ha.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,689
Member is Online
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 23, 2024 5:33:03 GMT -5
This whole ordeal has been enlightening though. If you can imagine it, I was not aware that essentially half the playerbase was OOCly connected and sharing everything, obviously we knew there were groups, but not the extent. I wasn't ever cool enough to be part of any of those cliques I guess. I also have absolutely zero clue what mehtastic is talking about re. having reported stuff and things, with screenshots, via proper channels and getting brushed off. But as with anything.. there have been so many different staffing teams. We are not the same people. There have been over 600 staff members for Armageddon (isn't that nuts?), shockingly, we are all different. You like to pull out the we're different now card every time this comes up, but you're not all that different. Much of the rhetoric in your first post is indistinguishable from what Nyr or Nergal would have said about the shadowboard in your position. Like them in their last days, you are obviously at the end of your rope, but there is no time like the present to confront the truth. The idea that Armageddon was somehow waged war upon from an outside force is a comforting lie, but the fact of the matter is that the cheating players spread information in a way that was left unchecked and destroyed your game. This happened from within. The shadowboard was more of an accelerant, in the sense that information I deemed public enough was posted here to be made truly public. I felt that players deserved to see what was being said about them and planned against them OOCly, whereas you clearly believe that ignorance is bliss. And before you call me a noble whistleblower again, I don't think it is particularly noble or ignoble to tell someone what is being said about them behind their back. I think it is the decent thing to do. Like telling a coworker her skirt is tucked into her underpants instead of giggling about it with the rest of them. It's basic decency. Many roleplaying games run without this level of drama. Armageddon was designed to fail, kept alive by the sheer will of the 600+ people that engaged in the self-flagellation known as staffing. What is it about Armageddon's design that led to this? It's a competitive roleplaying game. That's it. When you introduce an element of competition, you introduce underhandedness and poor sportsmanship. The ideas shared on here and in the game's Discord server about radical transparency are nice, but they work best in a roleplaying game that is collaborative, more akin to a typical TTRPG. When all the PCs are on one side, and most of the NPCs are on the other, that's the sweet spot for a fair roleplaying game. But like most TTRPGs that allow player-vs-player, Armageddon was played by assholes who sought ways to win the game while telling others that Armageddon can't be won. Should Armageddon ever open up again, you should look at other games that have run successfully. I recommend checking out the plethora of collaborative roleplaying games with public logs. It will be a different game, but at least it will be a game, rather than a duplicate of the Stanford prison experiment. It will be a radically different game, but this will help purge the people who rely on how the game currently works. They will be the least happy about their cheating methods not working anymore because every single thing is posted publicly. Alternatively, you could take the sandbox MMO approach of allowing cliques and secret-sharing. Then OOC communication becomes a social deduction game where players are encouraged to lie as much as they are encouraged to tell the truth. It works in very large MMORPGs, but with a community as small as Armageddon's, you run the risk of some truly nasty shit happening behind the scenes. Like Derain being threatened with murder on Facebook, or Bebop being stalked by Malifaxis, or Nergal receiving white powder in his mail... oh wait that has already happened. Or we can all accept that Armageddon's death is for the best, or at least has a silver lining to it, and move on with our lives.
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Post by uncoolio on Oct 23, 2024 5:49:50 GMT -5
Staff has always loved to insist that there's lots going on in the game, but they seem to base this on the number of threads on the IDB that concern some clan or plotline. The reality is that 99% of that stuff never reaches any given player. Armageddon has always failed really badly at plot visibility and accessibility. It doesn't matter how many threads you have detailing something that's going on when the overwhelming majority of it is completely undetectable to anyone outside of the one clan or the one player that it revolves around. Doubly so for players who aren't part of some OOC info-sharing clique. Let's take the copper rush stuff, since it was supposed to be one of the most prominent features of the season. Before quitting, I played first in AoD, then in the Guild and Magefall movement, and then a rogue mage with the express goal of being an antagonist for the GMHs. Not exactly far-flung hermit roles where you'd expect to be totally isolated from even the game's primary metaplot. At no point did I ever hear anything, anything at all, about the GMHs or whatever they were doing. Never met them, never heard anybody talk about them; they might as well not have existed. And I looked. My last character was devoted entirely to trying to get involved in it. I couldn't. I could never even manage to find a GMH character. And that wasn't from a lack of effort or personal myopia or whatever. I asked a number of characters IC and always got answers like "Uhh, I used to know a couple of their names but I haven't heard from them in ages. Dunno if they're dead." I spent quite a lot of time standing outside the GMH camps hoping to meet anybody, and simply never did. It looked to me like everyone else had the same issue: the thing that was supposed to be one of the flagship plots, something that carried the storyline of S1, was impossible to get involved in. You never even heard rumors about what was going on. You never heard a passing mention. You never met the PCs. It was effectively not a thing that existed. The same thing largely applies to most of the game's so-called plots, and has for years. If you don't happen to be in the actual center of it, to the point where that IDB thread has your character's or clan's name in the title, that plot is probably out of reach. You might never even hear about it at all. Arm has long been like a D&D game where the DM communicates only with one of the players and the rest of the group just hopes that this player is willing to share. Another big problem has been the lack of options for conflict resolution besides PKing. The game's general fabric is too weak for things like political reprisal or financial loss to be relevant. If you have an enemy, killing them is just about the only thing you can do that helps your own position. Combined with the fact that staff has been absolutely atrocious at maintaining anything resembling a healthy and fair PvP environment, the game has been an arms race of twink-PKing. This has encouraged players to keep their plot cards close to the chest and share as little as possible, because this culture of "PK first or get PKed, and any trick goes" has made it suicidal to be inclusive with your plots. So when we say that "nothing is going on," we mean that players who aren't being spoonfed personal plots from above are left in a position where these plots are invisible or unapproachable. Saying there's plenty going on just because you have access to all the information via the IDB shows a basic lack of perspective. Children learn pretty early that the information available to them is not the same information universally available to everyone; other people don't automatically know everything they know. It feels a lot like Armageddon's staff don't grasp this concept entirely.
If a plot falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, it's a shitty plot; and if that describes almost all plots, it's a shitty storytelling environment where players will rightfully complain that there's nothing happening.
And this isn't a case of "we did our best but just couldn't be expected to account for unforeseen outcomes." The measures that would have prevented this situation are so simple, so obvious and straight-forward. Just don't place the GMHs out in the middle of nowhere, and don't gate the entire copper rush behind access to clan-restricted camps. This isn't some astute piece of genius advice that only unusually intelligent people could have come up with. It's basic storytelling. It's no fucking wonder that shit was dead on arrival. Same with the Magefall stuff: if you wanted it to actually be a citywide movement, give it a clan and some sponsored roles, instead of absolutely nothing whatsoever to prop it up. Again, hardly rocket science. You've done a remarkably poor job setting up and facilitating these storylines, and as a result, they didn't work out.
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baron
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
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Post by baron on Oct 23, 2024 6:38:16 GMT -5
I always tried to be maximally inclusive with plot information. There's be people marveling that a tavern had actual people in it...it was because I'd sit there and take my "secret" meetings in the bloody taverns, in full view, so that anyone could come up and participate in the story.
Looking back, two out of the three of my last characters in the MUD were slain by players in positions of coded power (a psion and some guy who was lording over Luirs Outpost at a time when narratively he really should have been running back to Nak with his tail between his legs) explicitly because I tried to include those players and give them roleplaying opportunities off-peak. I put my character(s) in harm's way, in a position where they could easily be PK-ed, with the explicit and sole intention of giving Asshole X and Asshole Y someone to interact with, and so they did interact. With the kill command.
Even the the third character was killed because she was interacting with another player, albeit by (non-animated) NPC bashing her while her stun was low due to Way usage.
OOCly, ICly, in terms of game mechanics, open communication was punished...in a roleplaying game. Venting about those events is what got me banned from the GDB...in a colloborative narrative game.
(I'm not censoring the names of these characters out of respect for IC knowledge....I just don't remember their names. I remember the names of grebby little runners from 10 years ago that never amounted to anything in the plot, but not a psion or the defacto Lord of Luirs Outpost. That's how boring they were.)
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dcdc
Shartist
Posts: 539
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Post by dcdc on Oct 23, 2024 6:59:16 GMT -5
This whole ordeal has been enlightening though. If you can imagine it, I was not aware that essentially half the playerbase was OOCly connected and sharing everything, obviously we knew there were groups, but not the extent. I wasn't ever cool enough to be part of any of those cliques I guess. This just feels like you stated it, but didn't really believe it. I find it hard to believe staff awareness of this issue was so low... especially when I know fuck tons of staff who happily broke this rule when they weren't on staff (before and after). People colluding didn't break the game or kill the game. It went on since the game's inception. I also know plenty of folks who knew shit was going sideways for their favorite char... but played it out. We're all in cliques, it's just Armageddon MudSexers are too proud to admit they are in fact "Mean girls" sometimes. Hell a little staff self awareness on this issue might of done the game better than clutching to a 20 year old rule that literally everyone was breaking.
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Post by jcarter on Oct 23, 2024 7:19:00 GMT -5
[...] I am also a 30-something woman who has been playing this game for 20ish years along with other muds.[...] This whole ordeal has been enlightening though. If you can imagine it, I was not aware that essentially half the playerbase was OOCly connected and sharing everything, obviously we knew there were groups, but not the extent. I wasn't ever cool enough to be part of any of those cliques I guess. you are so unaware and out of the loop regarding in your face aspects of the community yet you spoke from complete confidence to deem what other members of staffing team were/were not aware of. you claim it's ridiculous that your staff members could be accused of impropriety after a long history of it and association with the offender, and seek out to squash it. you're a dangerous kind of incompetent and i am glad that you will no longer be in a position of authority.
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Post by generality on Oct 23, 2024 7:39:53 GMT -5
You let Lizzie / Hestia bully actually talented people away from the game, and when they complained to you Lizzie's 'old lady' defense was accepted wholesale.
You defended Malifaxis/Shaloonsh in the face of accusations and evidence, and some of you have even been quoted not knowing what gaslighting is, while actively engaged in gaslighting.
It is telling indeed that Eurynomos is the most switched on Producer in recent times.
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Post by gringoose on Oct 23, 2024 8:52:48 GMT -5
I can understand the difficult position that staff are in: of not wanting to do a crackdown of problem players for worry of losing too much of the dwindling player base, of taking most of the blame for Arm's problems and being dished out most of the abuse, worry of implementing too many changes and losing more players, of having to deal with the ugly side of Arm constantly when it's not as typically frequent for players since they don't see most of it, of having to delicately mediate OOC conflicts, the other litany of problems of being involved with Arm and regular stress issues with staff workload and watching the game that they're stewarding crumble. It's difficult and it's like trying to balance yourself on a tight rope as you're hit a thousand times.
Arm causes real damage to people and it's the right choice to pull the plug before it causes even more. It's kind of silly we let a 30 year old text game do damage to us but that's the position we're in. Because of all the animosity out there it would be best to vent to each other rather than publicly. You don't have to blame yourselves, or let other people convince you that your frustrations are invalid. I don’t blame just the staff for Arm’s problems. The community is wholly toxic. Everybody involved in Arm, at least for some substantial length of time, has been exposed to an ongoing abusive environment to varying degrees. No one group or one person is to blame for all of this.
Everything will be fine and you have other staff that are all going through the same issues to support each other.
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bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 131
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Post by bebop on Oct 23, 2024 10:38:03 GMT -5
This whole ordeal has been enlightening though. If you can imagine it, I was not aware that essentially half the playerbase was OOCly connected and sharing everything, obviously we knew there were groups, but not the extent. I wasn't ever cool enough to be part of any of those cliques I guess. See—this is the issue. No accountability. I have to call your bluff on this because claiming ignorance of these people abusing power out-of-character and communicating OOC? That was literally a huge part of what I posted when the game imploded, and I was banned. You would’ve had to work really hard to avoid knowing this. I explicitly said—Shalooonsh took inappropriate photos of Delirium in person and distributed them without her consent. I told staff (and you’re staff, right?) that Shalooonsh showed up where I lived and worked, taking pictures, which were sent to Draugr and Nessalin. Cuusardo came forward and said Shalooonsh groped her at a party. Delirium said she was removed from the game for refusing to interact with Shalooonsh. Belgiokiss said he tried to offer her roles to get her attention after she blocked him, and when that didn’t work, he stalked her husband and started messaging Fnord on social media. Before I ever came forward, staff had all those screenshots. Val is married to Zoltan. Delirium is married to Ender. I’m married to Captain Shmarmy. As early as a few years ago, Aromit, Drinn, and Shalooonsh were meeting up with players half their age in Portland. I believe Sanvean and several staff members were at Shalooonsh’s wedding when he married a woman he started dating when she was sixteen, and he was like, thirty-six. There’s been meet-up after meet-up over the years. Mansa and Drinn/Ourla dated. And when I made “the whistleblower post,” Drinn was staff for Mansa, who was a Templar, had a special weapon, and got skill boosts three times faster than me. It's well known that Mansa has regular communication with staff, if he isn't staff himself and then was first inline to become a moderator. So please, spare me the “we didn’t know” act. Of course you had some inkling of the OOC communication and corruption—look around. You came on as a staff member during the community’s biggest implosion. You had access to all these complaints and aspects of the community that most players will never see. This was all made public when I came forward. If you didn’t know, you chose to ignore it, because the information, screenshots, and signs were all there, glowing in the dark. And if you truly didn’t know, you should be questioning Halaster for onboarding you without preparing you for the environment you were entering. So, which is it? Halaster is blameless, or Halaster lied to the PB, covered for Shalooonsh, and wasn’t open with you about the state of OOC communication in the game? Which is it? That’s the problem. That’s where staff is culpable. Instead of doing any real "healing" or work, you refused to apologize to the women who were hurt or welcome them back. Staff covered this up for years. Sanvean dismissed Shalooonsh, and the current staff let him back in. This was a slow-moving train wreck that staff had every chance to divert, but they didn’t. And now, instead of owning up, you’re still blaming the players for management’s failures. Even framing this as "I guess I just wasn’t cool enough" shows you’re still stuck in a victim mentality, which doesn’t suit someone in leadership. And you're sticking with the idea that the victims of sexual abuse and harassment "hurt staff by putting them in a position they didn’t know how to handle." You’re still posting that and standing by it. You still can’t see your part in all this. Real healing would have been accountability and doing right by the players who were hurt. But instead, staff (and yes, this is where you come in, Usiku, because you were part of this) chose to ostracize and bury the victims of staff abuse and just keep plowing ahead. And now you’re acting shocked that there was widespread OOC communication? ---Who cares? You can't control everyone on the internet and their private conversations. ---Gatekeeping the game’s code was a bug, not a feature. It’s a hallmark of bad game devs. Imagine playing a character and not even knowing what skills they’ll have because, shhh, magick. ---When people enjoy and love a community they're going to meet up and talk about it. Look at literally every game and LARP. That should have been a compliment, but staff needed secrecy (or at least the toxic illusion of it) to keep cheating and manipulating their players. They created and enforced this to cover their own terrible behavior. ---You all broke the game by breaking its rules. You set up the pins and knocked them down. You claimed no staff were playing sponsored roles, and not only were they doing that—they were manipulating the entire game. No one is buying it that the staff aren't the problem anymore. You have been so eager to point fingers at the players, the leak, the "anomaly" bad apple in the staff bunch. Yet even now, when the game continues to be shut down, has lost all brand equity and trust - ya'll still won't sit with the simple fact that staff were the stewards and leaders of this game and they led it into the ground with systemic cheating, harassment and strategic secrecy to cover their tracks and poor decisions. What's worse, is people got hurt in real life. That's why the game is where it is right now. It's not those pesky players. It's not the shadowboards existing to keep abusers accountable. It's not the leak. It's not that people can't know how the code of a game they play works. It's the staff. The chance to "heal" as you put it is gone. It's time to end the game, but ya'll can't even do that with finality and grace. It's more drama, and a leak and a sad addiction to rigged theatrics that are seeping into the real world since there is no virtual world left to play in. The players made that virtual world and the staff destroyed it with all of the aforementioned bullshittery.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 386
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Post by jesantu on Oct 23, 2024 11:25:44 GMT -5
You defended Malifaxis/Shaloonsh in the face of accusations and evidence This is all that needs to be said. Every other accusation against staff is just additional fuel for an already massive bonfire. Any defense you guys raise, any "poor me" argument is just a lot of hot air. You should've known better and what's worse: you DID know better yet you continued to do it and only stopped when a large number of players rose up against you. If it was as little as 5 or 6 less angry players you probably wouldn't have agreed to ban him. And just think, then pedophile Shalooonsh would've never left and maybe HE'D be posting here now with you, Usiku! One of the biggest cheaters in the game (perhaps THE biggest) would be here with you, "schooling" us on what awful cheaters we are! That's so disgusting.
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Post by catacost on Oct 23, 2024 11:29:41 GMT -5
I don’t know bebop and I’m too new to even understand half this drama. But holy shit that post was an epic mic drop.
+1
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Oct 23, 2024 11:40:22 GMT -5
I think it's a good point to make that, everyone that came "here" and stayed here, had something to say, was someone that got burned by Arm in some way or another. First it was Jcarter getting burned by Nyr, "make your own forum". Then the dialogue around claiming the forbidden knowledge like branching paths from the insider-clique, turned to the indignities and unfairness shown to people. This was a place for someone to come and define their injury in a (so far) uncensorable way: it's the way that the Mumble gang was logging in every night, sharing their injuries that they felt over the investment and love they put into this game, the hurt that came from being burned by it. We helped each other get through those sick feelings: it felt good to not be alone, to not be insane, to not be singularly anomalistic in how much hurt we felt over the game. And the more that came to light, the more sure we all could be that — it's not a fluke, and it's not that someone "deserved" it. The system itself was broken, the culture was broken. Really, the Shadowboard is a support group. If there was one point of feedback that I could supply that would have the most impact over the past years of the game, it would have been... It would be nice if the Armageddon community had not necessitated the Shadowboards.
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