|
Post by generality on Oct 30, 2024 9:33:55 GMT -5
That was more or less the conclusion about moderation that I had, yes.
|
|
baron
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
|
Post by baron on Oct 30, 2024 14:52:43 GMT -5
Also, the best social deduction game is Blood on the Clocktower. It actually is what armageddon politics aspired to be in a 1 to 2 hour package. Blood on the Clock Tower is the best. The only problem is that it encourages players to split off and go into separate rooms to share information. If I was hosting a bunch of Armageddon players in my house for a game, I would have to insist that they keep the doors open, for a variety of reasons. Worth noting that while that's become most popular variation of the game (mostly because of Ben Burns, and how he runs the game), it wasn't the original intention. In the original concept, players weren't supposed to break off into private areas. They could, at most, whisper to each other. That's how the Lunatic was supposed to work, for example, with the evil team having imperfect information about each other, because they couldn't break off to have extended conversations. Of course, most games of Clocktower nowadays are online, and use the pandemic era conventions set up by Ben Burns.
|
|
baron
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
|
Post by baron on Oct 30, 2024 15:14:07 GMT -5
Museum mode: gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,61083.msg1110043.html I appreciate this. This is something I would log on to, from time to time. A step further would be to preserve the code/data in a public space, so that it can be instantiated 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now (if anyone still cares to).
|
|
bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 131
|
Post by bebop on Oct 30, 2024 15:34:16 GMT -5
I think how staff is handling this is more or less indicative of their tone deaf capacity to be completely uncollaborative with their player base to the bitter end.
If I had populated a game for over ten years with my time and writing only to be locked out of the public forum so staff could take a victory lap and parade their work without any mutual dialogue - I'd be pissed. I mean that DID happen to me, a year ago but you know what I mean.
Plus, as an observer I don't even get to see Lizzie short circuit as they attempt to both defend staff and advocate for the game's continuation. This is the worse ending since Bran became king.
They can't even end the game collaboratively. They've locked the players out of the general discussion boards (there are still active discussion boards, you're reading one) effectively robbing them of an individual and collective voice as the game concludes.
I think it's par for the course, staff-centric and insulting. The overall message is clear that the staff's work is in the spotlight, and the players aren't entitled to a voice even thought it was literally another corrupt staffer that led to the game's end. (Supposedly.)
But --- the players that remained did so completely aware of the sexual abuse, lies, cheating, staff's disregard for them, in ability to finish projects and whistleblower expulsion that took place and plugged on anyway. So fuck 'um I guess. I'm not really too concerned about advocating for either side at this point. It's an interesting spectacle to observe before the catharsis of knowing it's done sets in.
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on Oct 30, 2024 19:39:17 GMT -5
where were the improvements for the mundanes? basic systems to make the gameplay loop of gathering resources important, meaningful, or have any dependance on it? why the fuck would anyone want to walk into this game after seeing a post for it and sign up to be a byn trooper? oh boy, 100+ hours of grinding out combat skill gains just to go on a mission in the sewers where a trapdoor opens and slides me to my death. In fairness, the code copper/bronze smelting was fairly involved and interesting, if the documentation was reflected in the code, with pitfalls built-in for mages. It could have been more so. Like with the elemental convergence, maybe copper has the effects of what they proposed for bronze, and bronze could have gone to 11, just bloody awful for mages to be around. Blood spewing from your eyesockets bad to equip the stuff on an elementalist. The number of times the docs stated "but templars and sorcs are immune" was a little disappointing. If you're going to give mundane characters their own special toys to play with, then go all out. Maybe bronze helmets and masks could have protected people from psionic bullshit as well, at the cost of not being able to use the Way for communication unless you take your headgear off. The story of "Bronze Age Arm" is interesting enough that it could have been the starting point. Some merchant house or another discovers the secret of smelting tin + copper at day 0, the inciting incident, with all crafting recipes for the new material developed by crafter players as the player-base emergently discovers the effects the stuff has on ginkers (and templars and sorcs and psions, in my version). That would have given the anti-witch faction some real teeth. who's going to have access to those rare and incredibly desired items? sponsored roles like nobles, templars, and GMH family members. they're also going to be the ones guarding the knowledge. the sorc immunity part is incredibly cheesy. the ultra powerful characters commonly played by staff can't possibly have a weakness, no matter how difficult and rare it is to achieve that item.
|
|
baron
Clueless newb
Posts: 119
|
Post by baron on Oct 30, 2024 20:09:36 GMT -5
Theorycrafting, it could have been interesting if a tin and copper deposit was discovered in the caverns under Allanak, and an eastside elf tribe were the ones that rediscovered the secret of bronze smelting. And the rinthi, using their new toys, were able to stick it to the templars and declare a degree of autonomy for a new population of tunnel elves. With infravision! And tunnel running! But no magic or psionics. That would set up a clearer line: do you play as the shiny new elves, or the magical gemmies on the surface, or a member of the established order?
(For previous enchanted bronze items in the game, ie, Magekiller, it's safe to assume those items came from a bygone era.)
|
|
|
Post by uncoolio on Oct 31, 2024 4:05:50 GMT -5
Well, S1 didn't even have an eastside clan at all. The 'rinth was left wholly untouched from its pre-season state except they didn't open any elven tribes, so that entire half of the area was just dead on arrival. I guess you can theorycraft that into existence as well, but it's as far removed as possible from what S1 actually offered. Either staff abandoned plans to have the eastside elves represented by actual players (maybe someone was supposed to be in charge of that but quit before release, and then the producers decided to just leave it out altogether), or never had such plans in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by generality on Oct 31, 2024 7:41:18 GMT -5
Retroactively, I think the ban on staff playing the game killed staff retention. It's all moot now though.
Maybe when the code gets released in ten years and three people play the game it'll be worth looking into.
|
|
Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 552
|
Post by Patuk on Oct 31, 2024 7:44:10 GMT -5
Retention wasn't even very high before that got axed. It turns out doing all the busywork and very little cool shit isn't all that fun.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,688
|
Post by mehtastic on Nov 1, 2024 4:58:50 GMT -5
Not that it matters anymore, but the system was designed so that staff would take sabbaticals on occasion to play their game so they don't lose touch of what's important, and take a break from any busywork they don't like. It's worth noting that plenty of Armageddon staff liked resolving requests and animating as long as the players they're working for weren't being dicks.
The inherent problem with that is that people like Halaster and Brokkr liked to set up the conditions for their next character while they were on staff, then resign from staff to play with the classes, spells, and systems they coded. I am positive that, had the game lasted longer, Halaster would have finished setting up the necromancer class to be one of the first people to play it.
The best staffing model in the end is one that is run by staff that conduct themselves honestly and professionally.
|
|
najdorf
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 265
|
Post by najdorf on Nov 1, 2024 11:48:55 GMT -5
all that work they post they've been working on, my PCs never got 1% of that kind of plots. we (and people like me) really were NPCs for decades lol
|
|
|
Post by generality on Nov 1, 2024 11:49:43 GMT -5
Unless you were one of the chosen few, you were a set of numbers and fetch quests and not much else.
|
|
delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
|
Post by delerak on Nov 1, 2024 14:56:13 GMT -5
I am positive that, had the game lasted longer, Halaster would have finished setting up the necromancer class to be one of the first people to play it. I really don't see anything wrong with that either. If the guy worked on it and implemented it and then retired his staff account I think he would deserve to play it. Sure he might have insider knowledge on some stuff but ultimately the conflict was the hypocritical multiplaying of staff since its inception. With that gone I could have happily played the game knowing that perhaps the playing field wasn't completely level but level enough that I'm not being tracked by a staffs knowledge simultaneously while they are logged onto their avatar multiplaying.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,688
|
Post by mehtastic on Nov 1, 2024 15:07:54 GMT -5
You'd have a great point if Armageddon was run honestly, but unfortunately the Armageddon staff proved time and time again that "level enough" gets tipped in staff's favor very quickly.
|
|
|
Post by jcarter on Nov 1, 2024 16:59:07 GMT -5
I am positive that, had the game lasted longer, Halaster would have finished setting up the necromancer class to be one of the first people to play it. I really don't see anything wrong with that either. If the guy worked on it and implemented it and then retired his staff account I think he would deserve to play it. Sure he might have insider knowledge on some stuff but ultimately the conflict was the hypocritical multiplaying of staff since its inception. With that gone I could have happily played the game knowing that perhaps the playing field wasn't completely level but level enough that I'm not being tracked by a staffs knowledge simultaneously while they are logged onto their avatar multiplaying. dude let's be realistic. halaster made the necromancer class so he could play it and stomp faces. it's a ridiculously overpowered class that becomes immune to poison, blind, deafness, sleep, intoxicate, and parch, doesn't need to eat/drink, never ages, has self-healing, can change bodies, dispel magic, create AND summon powerful meatshields. and of course the anti-magic tools that became available this season wouldn't work on them at all. the class was made to be his mary sue character, plainsman 2.0. it doesn't even fit into the existing gameworld.
|
|