vortex
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Post by vortex on Oct 27, 2024 10:03:32 GMT -5
I guess since the game is closing, I can go ahead and say this.
Natharion? Fuck you you fucking prick dipshit.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 27, 2024 10:11:24 GMT -5
This mehtastic guy really paints things in black and white and to the extremes. He can continue to toss around his view of course but I hope I’m not the only one rolling his eyes every time he makes such definitive claims. To the casual reader, this “shadow board” sounds sinister and diametrically opposed to the main player base but it’s really just a haven for the disgruntled. Who all have reasons to raise their annoyances and concerns. They are definitely not unified or capable of any semblance of an “attack” on the main community or the game as far as I can tell. It’s like 4 daily posters talking in circles. The main discord, at least as of last week, had pitched a number of ideas to help resolve some of Arm’s fundamental design flaws that contributed to its most recent downfall. Unsurprisingly, 200+ people do not have the same point of view and the community is far less an echo chamber than this one. Some people are probably really sad and maybe even to an unhealthy level that their pastime is in danger of never returning, but definitely not at the scale this guy implies 😆 From an observers perspective this community seems more focused on retribution and the official community on resolution. That’s not to say there aren’t some actually aggrieved individuals here who deserve closure at a minimum, but it is the dominate focus of this board and largely attached to year or decades old scenarios. Readers: Just bear in mind this is an unofficial forum with a micro-community rallying around angst. You can whine all you want. Doesn't change the truth that the staff said "we need to close and figure this leak out" and the first opinions the players bombarded them with were "this is stupid", "you should just reopen anyway", "you are going to kill the game" and similar dreck.
The only ideas that have come up to target Armageddon's fundamental design flaws, like the radical transparency stuff, are good and also would make Armageddon not an RPI anymore. If that's what the players want, great -- there is a lot of toxicity inherent in the RPI model that enables cliques, secret info sharing, and cheating in the first place.
It doesn't change the fact that the producers know how many of their players are toxic assholes who are lying directly to their faces, thanks to the screenshots that "someone" sent to their producers@ email.
The people who are really sad to an unhealthy level that their pastime is in danger needed to get their heads out of the sand yesterday. It was in danger for years thanks to cheaters and abusers.
You don't need to talk down to people -- most people have the intelligence to figure out what this board is for. The people who say "umm ackshully this is the shitboard and derpboard" are some of the cheatiest cheaters the game has. And they're definitely not using this board to cheat.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 27, 2024 10:17:45 GMT -5
I guess since the game is closing, I can go ahead and say this. Natharion? Fuck you you fucking prick dipshit. His player was just one of many cheaters. It's sad to see the lengths players will go to to "win Armageddon" only to have their character die because they decided to go AFK.
If Armageddon restarts as a radically transparent non-RPI, Natharion's player and his clique will fuck off to another game where their method of cheating will actually provide an advantage.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 27, 2024 10:24:36 GMT -5
Is no OOC communication a hallmark of an RPI? I know that limited OOC channels in-game is but I'm not sure out of game non-communication is a pre-requisite.
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vortex
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Post by vortex on Oct 27, 2024 10:34:41 GMT -5
I guess since the game is closing, I can go ahead and say this. Natharion? Fuck you you fucking prick dipshit. His player was just one of many cheaters. It's sad to see the lengths players will go to to "win Armageddon" only to have their character die because they decided to go AFK.
If Armageddon restarts as a radically transparent non-RPI, Natharion's player and his clique will fuck off to another game where their method of cheating will actually provide an advantage.
I laughed pretty hard when I heard what happened. Could not have happened to a bigger prick. |
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 27, 2024 10:52:12 GMT -5
Is no OOC communication a hallmark of an RPI? I know that limited OOC channels in-game is but I'm not sure out of game non-communication is a pre-requisite. Communication about in-game activities out-of-game circumvents in-game ways to discover secret information. That's always been an RPI maxim.
Could you make an RPI with that type of OOC communication allowed or even encouraged? Sure. It would probably look like a social deduction game where people are expected to lie to one another at least as much as they tell the truth, but given that the "game" now comprises the space outside of the game itself, expect extra toxicity in addition to the natural devolution of the game into powerful cliques and disconnected nobodies.
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 27, 2024 10:58:04 GMT -5
It's been a maxim of Armageddon but I think there have been more RPIs that don't care about whether you know who plays who or about the event from last week than ones that have had Armageddon's purist view of it.
Like if I publish all the information for the system on a website wiki and people are allowed to share who they play.
As long as in-game ooc channels are restricted and all activity in-game is always IC/RP than I think that is an RPI.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 27, 2024 11:04:57 GMT -5
It's been a maxim of Armageddon but I think there have been more RPIs that don't care about whether you know who plays who or about the event from last week than ones that have had Armageddon's purist view of it. Like if I publish all the information for the system on a website wiki and people are allowed to share who they play. As long as in-game ooc channels are restricted and all activity in-game is always IC/RP than I think that is an RPI. Not even Armageddon cares if you tell people who you play privately, and the only reason the producers care about sharing that information publicly is because of incidents like some crazy motherfucker making a throwaway Facebook account to tell Derain he was going to be murdered unless his character got out of the wagonmaking business.
We're talking about two different things. The outdated purist approach is not something any RPI engages in (edit: except maybe Sindome). The talking-about-IC-plots-OOCly stuff is something every RPI expects its players not to do and being true to that is fundamental to the model. The only exception might be in games where PCs are largely on the same side.
"Radical transparency" people are suggesting that everything should be out in the open, including IC plots. Public RP would be publicly logged and viewable by all players. That would make Armageddon not an RPI. This is not a bad thing.
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ask
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Post by ask on Oct 27, 2024 11:12:13 GMT -5
An RPI is meant to be roleplay intensive. Not a single RPI that still exists can claim that's the way of it though, or they'd have more staff support or changing gameworlds or characters in charge. *shrug*
They're just hack-n-slashes with mudsex because there's nothing else to do or no plot otherwise to pursue.
People are always going to share OOCly. You have to plan for that and be okay with it.
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Post by uncoolio on Oct 27, 2024 11:33:01 GMT -5
I still think they just didn't want to run the game anymore and this whole leaker business was a convenient excuse to call it quits. Permanently closing the game because of concerns about privacy is... I mean, come on. Shalooonsh was a literal IRL stalker of multiple players, travelling to their homes and workplaces and taking pictures of them. Staff was willing to turn a blind eye to that up until the players rebelled too much for it to be swept under the rug. And now because some mystery leaker is feeding plot info to certain players, that's suddenly such a great security risk that the game cannot continue?
They couldn't save the game from dying, and they don't want to be in charge of its end of life care. The rest is a face-saving ruse. It's actually kind of understandable that they don't want to keep working on a game that's circling the drain, and whose community is so out of love with it that staff members and whole Discord cliques of players are happy to cheat. Saying "fuck this, I'm out" is a perfectly reasonable impulse. There was no need to feign concern over people's personal safety.
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foobar
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Post by foobar on Oct 27, 2024 12:01:08 GMT -5
I still think they just didn't want to run the game anymore and this whole leaker business was a convenient excuse to call it quits. Permanently closing the game because of concerns about people's personal security is... I mean, come on. Shalooonsh was a literal IRL stalker of multiple players, travelling to their homes and workplaces and taking pictures of them. Staff was willing to turn a blind eye to that up until the players rebelled too much for it to be swept under the rug. And now because some mystery leaker is feeding plot info to certain players, that's suddenly such a great security risk that the game cannot continue? They couldn't save the game from dying, and they don't want to be in charge of its end of life care. The rest is a face-saving ruse. It's actually kind of understandable that they don't want to keep working on a game that's circling the drain, and whose community is so out of love with it that staff members and whole Discord cliques of players are happy to cheat. Saying "fuck this, I'm out" is a perfectly reasonable impulse. There was no need to feign concern over people's personal safety. Yeah, it was never an choice of "either close the game or sacrifice the player's privacy on the altar of the game". Complete false dichotomy. |
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Post by catacost on Oct 27, 2024 12:32:04 GMT -5
You don't need to talk down to people
That's rich lol. ------ I agree uncoolio - it's the only way I can make sense of it given the heaps of evidence here and elsewhere that this leakage isn't a /new/ problem. |
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Post by pinkerdlu on Oct 27, 2024 13:37:06 GMT -5
Why are staff like Ammut and Usiku STILL lamenting the fate of the staff specifically? Are you guys all trauma-bonded from sipping and serving the escapism/addiction purple drink? (Look up sipping syrup non-Americans.) Ironically, it sounds like YOU also need a support group and are coming here to vent for reasons similar to those of the players. That seems to be the case; you're not crazy. Look at Ammut's post history on here specifically and you'll see that he was banned and heckled by staff on multiple occasions. Years later, he goes out on a limb and applies to staff. Gets accepted and immediately ingratiates himself with them, thankful to be accepted. Only to be trauma-bonded for life after answering a few requests from Azerbanjani type players who ask inane questions about the geological tilt of the Red Desert and so on. Bleary-eyed after a long evening of caring for his elderly family members, drinking beer, watching Football and Marvel movies, he sees that Armageddon MUD is closing down. He immediately suffers a bout of PTSD after recalling all of the horrifying requests and barely literate Bynners, so he decides to complain about his staff duties and does a quick prayer for the remaining and former Staffers. They gotta stick together, y'know? Must never "betray" each other. And then he leaves without reading about or even considering what the game and playerbase has gone through to reach this point. Meh. You might've been onto something with the cult analogy. Cult or not, effectively there doesn't seem to be much of a difference from what's played out here. SNIP The main discord, at least as of last week, had pitched a number of ideas to help resolve some of Arm’s fundamental design flaws that contributed to its most recent downfall. Unsurprisingly, 200+ people do not have the same point of view and the community is far less an echo chamber than this one. Readers: Just bear in mind this is an unofficial forum with a micro-community rallying around angst. Kay. I'm sure all 200+ of the Arm discord members were chipping in with some marvelous solutions. I'm totally gonna take you serious when you're engaging in the same form of exaggeration and embellishment that you're accusing mehtastic of. I'm not sure why you're fixated on constantly denigrating and dismissing the size or impact of this community. You can scroll through hundreds of threads here with thousands of posts, many of which talk about the code, game design, organizational structure, themes of Armageddon and the behavior of it's players. But yes, we're a small 4-person cabal of evil-doers. An evil community, almost as micro as what lay in your pantaloons. Please don't expose us any further. And don't expose yourself. No one wants to see that. It's not the animations that overwhelms them. It's the endless resolving of requests. The only staff animation I ever received in my last play was from pinkerdlu, funny enough. I think maybe Gynesis did one, but she did NOT understand Tuluk enough to get the nuance of my needs. From my perspective, it's usually 2-3 staff members who answer 80+% of general requests, character applications, and so on. I only saw one other staff member besides myself doing semi-regular animations (Shalooonsh). The rest would log on for maybe a couple of hours a day to work on a side project or find some way to keep themselves busy while chatting in wiznet/imm chat/discord. For example, Gynesis doing that totally unnecessary Byn compound/npc rework where they go HOWDY PARDNER, BACK FROM THE SANDS? YA HAVE A GOOD JOB OUT THERE? SEE ANY KANKS? My perception/time was limited, but that's what I saw, and it seems to line up with my experience as a player as well. There's a whole lot less going on than they want you to believe, than what YOU (the avg player) want to believe. Staff members that go above and beyond are extremely rare, seem to burn out quickly under the heel of uninspired head storytellers/producers, or make it to the top and go insane (Nergal). I didn't burn out, but I cut my losses and moved on ASAP, realizing that my effort would be better spent trying to make my own game than trying to change/fix Armageddon from the inside. Your character was almost single-handedly keeping an entire sphere alive, and I saw how they treated you. How they treated and managed the game as a whole. I know why Nergal was disgusted. Good times. |
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 27, 2024 13:38:22 GMT -5
You don't need to talk down to people
That's rich lol. ------ I agree uncoolio - it's the only way I can make sense of it given the heaps of evidence here and elsewhere that this leakage isn't a /new/ problem. I get to talk down to you until you prove you are more than an average Armageddon player. Practically all of your posts have been stupid.
I still think they just didn't want to run the game anymore and this whole leaker business was a convenient excuse to call it quits. Permanently closing the game because of concerns about privacy is... I mean, come on. Shalooonsh was a literal IRL stalker of multiple players, travelling to their homes and workplaces and taking pictures of them. Staff was willing to turn a blind eye to that up until the players rebelled too much for it to be swept under the rug. And now because some mystery leaker is feeding plot info to certain players, that's suddenly such a great security risk that the game cannot continue? They couldn't save the game from dying, and they don't want to be in charge of its end of life care. The rest is a face-saving ruse. It's actually kind of understandable that they don't want to keep working on a game that's circling the drain, and whose community is so out of love with it that staff members and whole Discord cliques of players are happy to cheat. Saying "fuck this, I'm out" is a perfectly reasonable impulse. There was no need to feign concern over people's personal safety.
I think if the producers wanted to stop running the game, they could have just handed the keys over to the next three storytellers in line and shifted to different positions, or resigned entirely. I think they were genuinely shook by some of the leaks that came out and put a pause on the game to reassess. Perhaps they're struggling with the truth that half their playerbase are cheating scum. Perhaps they're worried about what other information is being spread and/or what is known. For example, I know all of the plans for season one's main metaplot from start to finish, but have declined to dump all of it because I can respect the labor put into it more than the average Armageddon player. I doubt the staff trust me to stick to my clearly-stated principles, though.
There's a difference between "we don't want to run the game anymore" and "we feel the game should not be run". The producers' actions align more with the latter statement than the former.
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Post by jcarter on Oct 27, 2024 13:55:09 GMT -5
Some people are probably really sad and maybe even to an unhealthy level that their pastime is in danger of never returning, but definitely not at the scale this guy implies 😆 huh? people on the official community were the ones mailing things to people they hated IRL and sending death threats over facebook. this is a board on the internet to bitch and bullshit. it is used for bitching and bullshitting. there's no retribution on here unless you're a member of the group that considers an anonymous person claiming someone is a dick and a cheat as 'retribution' and cyberbullying. |
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