mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 24, 2024 19:48:18 GMT -5
mehtastic Were any of the leaks directly from a staffer or were they all friend of a friend or passed through cliques before they got to you? It would be funny if it was multiple staffers leaking to their friends and not even the leaker knows if it was themselves or not. If so, Arm players, if you don't want the game to shut down time to turn in your friend. It was a mix. I received what could best be described as anonymous tips via DM as early as March. They had to have been from a staff member or someone very close. But the vast majority of leaks came from clique groups.
I think that there are probably multiple leakers, and that they were probably unaware that they were causing damage for at least some time. I can't imagine them being unaware of what they've done now.
I will note that I have my suspicions about who these leakers are, but there's no way for me to know for certain. I don't intend to share my suspicions about who is responsible until the game is closed with no chance of coming back.
I will also note I haven't received new insider information since October 21. I have no idea what staff are discussing internally, beyond what has been publicly announced. In other words, the cliques only started to shut up when they realized their game was in existential danger.
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dcdc
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Post by dcdc on Oct 24, 2024 19:52:29 GMT -5
We're in a much different place then we were 10 or even 5 years ago. I didn't mean to imply it be super easy... but certainly be easier then in the past. Certainly easier NOW, then any previous time in history. 20 years ago, I could see it being a very difficult undertaking, especially if you had no prior experience programming or engineering. Today? That's just not the case. Making games is hard, yea... but very doable. There's a near infinite amount of utterly free resources in which one can learn, utilize, and create from. I would think, with sufficient motivation, any difficulty would be overcome. It's that lack of motivation... or more honestly, it's the fact it's not "Armageddon Mud" that really kills the motivation. For whatever reason folks have. I genuinely think it's worth that self reflection. You're absolutely right in that there are more resources, templates and source material to work with than ever before. However I think that's outweighed by the rest of what we encounter in modernity. In 2024, the creative, innovative workhorse "nerds" that would've been experimenting with MUDs, Diku and Java in the 90s, are now building games with Unity and Unreal engine instead. They're delving into data science and advanced AI learning algorithms. They're making visual games using the vast libraries of openly available 3D models. The only people concerned with MUDs nowadays are niche hobbyists like Griatch w/ Evennia or Japheth w/ FutureMUD, etc. And those guys are the shining stars of the community. The rest of us are degens lingering amongst the RPI ruins and stagnant MUSH sex-topias. Yes, there are more resources available; but there's also less incentive. You could also argue that our attention is "stolen" and more divided nowadays than ever before with social media, our smart phones & apps, the steam storefront and so on. While back in the 90s, MUDs were one of the few online mediums where one could attain a similar escape from reality. Very few kids nowadays would pick MUDs over a GTA roleplay server. Very few DEVELOPERS would choose MUDs over GTA roleplay servers and assets. These are excuses at the end of the day, you're right in that the resources and potential is there for an individual(s) with the right motivation and desire to innovate. But over-abundance of choice, analysis paralysis and the coding acumen required for a MUD compared to other mediums are all a real bitch to deal with, that much is for sure. I think you give Armageddon MUD too much credit, but I could be wrong. I am still posting on this forum after all these years, after all. All fair points. |
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Jeshin
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Post by Jeshin on Oct 24, 2024 20:02:58 GMT -5
Remember that time I spent over 10,000 dollars trying to develop a professional MUD and failed due to runway?
Personally I do think there is a market in text-based games because story and narrative have value. I believe that even more after moving on from RPIs and doing all those other RP communities. The issue that I had back then was I was not a coder but now I can muddle through and I did not possess enough $$$ to fund the development long enough to get to the end. I think anyone developing any type of game will tell you that $$$ to offset the time especially when you actually know what you're doing is probably the biggest hurdle. There is a reason gaming studios release games incomplete. Those years of development where they are paying these teams to work on something are years where they are losing money on that project and eventually you have to stop spending and start earning. For text-based games given the smaller audience and the fact almost all the codebases except FutureMUD and Evennia are copyrighted to free that makes it pretty hard.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Oct 24, 2024 22:38:52 GMT -5
If the game reopens and players return (peaking at the usual 30 or whatever it was lately) then it demonstrates those people will put up with truly anything.
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baron
Clueless newb
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Post by baron on Oct 24, 2024 23:39:23 GMT -5
Anyone new looking for text-based roleplay these days is doing so via an LLM. Don't throw your time away developing a traditional MUD. That's crazy in 2024, unless you're doing it for purely hobby reasons with zero expectation of having any audience play your game.
It would be prohibitely expensive to do it today, but I'm fairly confident that as price of inference drops it'll be possible to simulate your own Armageddon or similiar game, with both real players and virutal players/staff. As I envision it, the experience would be richer than a text based MUD populated by human players and staff. Any aspect of the world would be fully interactive, like having staff on call to animate anything 24/7. It wouldn't even have to be fully text based, with fine-tuned image and sound generators waiting in the wings to draw a scene and set it to music.
That's the ultimate solution to the staff problem. An impartial team of robots that don't care about winning (or stalking girls) simulating a world.
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Post by terminal on Oct 24, 2024 23:55:55 GMT -5
the suggestion that the shadowboard community and the armageddon community at large are differentiated in any meaningful way is pure fantasy you'd have a hard time convincing anyone on the arm discord that this is the case lol yeah idk about that. it seems to me that a majority of sb posters are on the arm discord |
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Oct 25, 2024 1:31:47 GMT -5
you'd have a hard time convincing anyone on the arm discord that this is the case lol yeah idk about that. it seems to me that a majority of sb posters are on the arm discord yeah ur moms on the discord |
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Oct 25, 2024 5:06:20 GMT -5
If the game reopens and players return (peaking at the usual 30 or whatever it was lately) then it demonstrates those people will put up with truly anything. This is the most likely outcome if the game opens on or before Tuesday.
If the game doesn't come back by Tuesday, and staff start to hype a Season Two, or Season One Redux, or some kind of fresh start, months into the future... I think we will see the same thing we saw in June. A huge flood of players returning followed by a sharp decline once people realize Armageddon is still Armageddon.
It's noteworthy that as far as I can tell, only two people on Discord changed their names to their PC names and said they quit, and both of them are deeply connected in the game's OOC web. If they stay quit and the game reopens the game will be in slightly better health than it was before, if anything.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Oct 25, 2024 5:54:18 GMT -5
Yeah I can definitely see there being a temporary surge when and if the game reopens. But all that means is people are (briefly) desperate to play after being unable to for a while. Maybe they should just do this every few months to keep the numbers up!
Also, Usiku, we're still waiting on an explanation as to how Brokkr and Shalooonsh would've been dealt with if the shadow board had never existed.
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Post by uncoolio on Oct 25, 2024 6:21:57 GMT -5
Apparently the game will be permanently shuttered if no leaker has come forward by Tuesday and turned themself in.
I don't think there is one leaker who's single-handedly responsible for all this. All sorts of staff members have been giving their friends inside information for many years. It's probably a pretty normal thing. There may not be anyone who's sitting there right now feeling like they're the one who's behind all this. It could be that a number of staff members are thinking, "did I give my friends more information than the others did? Did I take it a bit too far and make it too obvious?" I don't think there's one person thinking, "it was I! I'm the one Halaster is talking about! Muahaha!"
In any case, I really doubt anyone's going to turn themselves in before Tuesday and allow Arm to be opened again, so it seems clear that this is the end. We'll take a cup of kindness yet for the sake of auld lang syne.
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Post by generality on Oct 25, 2024 6:33:09 GMT -5
Until the patterns of behavior are disrupted, I don't think the playerbase will ever improve.
You have the 'must wins' and you have the 'just existing' people trying to play on the same table.
You have people who will complain on Arm discord IMMEDIATLY when something goes poorly for them in game (and never get punished).
You have people who will play with your OOC sensibilities in an IC scenario deliberately and then complain when you put a boundary in play for them.
And those people aren't even the worst kinds as far as Arm denizens go. But the Shadowboards are a hive of scum and villainy, guys.
I would say I am on the Arm discord, but I left more or less when I said I would.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
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Post by jesantu on Oct 25, 2024 6:33:23 GMT -5
]I really doubt anyone's going to turn themselves in before Tuesday and allow Arm to be opened again, so it seems clear that this is the end. Since it's coming from Halaster who has totally never said he's quitting and then not quit, we know he definitely means it. |
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sawbot
staff puppet account
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Post by sawbot on Oct 25, 2024 9:13:33 GMT -5
It's over arma bros....  |
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Post by gringoose on Oct 25, 2024 9:22:23 GMT -5
I think they'll shut it down. The stress isn't worth it and staff don't even play PCs anymore.
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Post by uncoolio on Oct 25, 2024 9:29:05 GMT -5
and staff don't even play PCs anymore. I wonder if that might have been part of it. When none of the people who work on a game are ever allowed to play it at all, it's probably a lot easier for them to decide that they don't wanna do it anymore. |
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