ask
Clueless newb
Posts: 128
|
Post by ask on Oct 23, 2024 12:44:06 GMT -5
Yeah, Bebop certainly did report before, as did many of us. The game's a joke. Future MUDs, if any do end up cropping up (I know of some in the works), need to have strict staff policies in place and self-police. When you're staff, you're meant to be a facilitator. You're not meant to have your ego blown. If you can't get with the program and have your players have fun and also keep them safe, then you need to leave. Unfortunately, Armageddon staff never got that memo and they're too mired in their own poisonous pride to realize their folly. Anyway, staff abuse has been reported on for years. Nobody did shit about it. I love nessalin with all of my heart, even though he blocked me on Facebook after my big reveal here from my staffing time, but he and other Producers (and this includes hierarchies on other games) just sit like skeletons on cobwebbed thrones, dictating policy and projects without interacting with players on even the most basic of levels. If you can't name the movers and shakers or at least 3 player plot arcs going on at any given time, you need to fuck off of staff and go back to playing. And if harassment is reported, you investigate it. I don't care how OLD your friendship is. STOP BEING FRIENDS WITH CREEPAZOIDS. Okay. Now that I've settled from my very uncaffeinated and thus, unfocused reply, does this mean Usiku's banned from the dead game since she came over here to post and share info?
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,689
Member is Online
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 23, 2024 12:45:16 GMT -5
The staff will just say it was never reported and that they have no idea what you're talking about, while not paying any regard to the fact that every staff member has access to a "Delete" button on requests. Staff are not supposed to click it, but it's there, and it works. A lot of the requests that staff claim not to find were most likely deleted by Shabago or Shalooonsh.
If staff wanted trust and accountability, they would have implemented audit logs for all material staff can access. Just a timestamp and a username every time a request was accessed, changed, or deleted. But they have all the ethics of an office that sells fake medicine to old people and has a lot of shredders.
|
|
|
Post by actuallyender on Oct 23, 2024 12:57:12 GMT -5
The staff will just say it was never reported and that they have no idea what you're talking about, while not paying any regard to the fact that every staff member has access to a "Delete" button on requests. Staff are not supposed to click it, but it's there, and it works. A lot of the requests that staff claim not to find were most likely deleted by Shabago or Shalooonsh. If staff wanted trust and accountability, they would have implemented audit logs for all material staff can access. Just a timestamp and a username every time a request was accessed, changed, or deleted. But they have all the ethics of an office that sells fake medicine to old people and has a lot of shredders. Man, I wish it was just Shabago and Shalooonsh being smart about covering their tracks, but I know for a fact my complaint was known by the rest of staff SIX MONTHS before Bebop's post here. Halaster KNEW Shalooonsh had creeped on my wife, took pictures of her without her consent, and STILL our requests to have Shalooonsh not interact with my wife was deemed too much and both of our characters were stored for having the audacity to request such a thing. I received an apology like... a year or so after (and not from Halaster), but it was far too late. How could anyone have felt safe in an environment like that?
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
|
Post by punished ppurg on Oct 23, 2024 14:09:02 GMT -5
The staff will just say it was never reported and that they have no idea what you're talking about, while not paying any regard to the fact that every staff member has access to a "Delete" button on requests. Staff are not supposed to click it, but it's there, and it works. A lot of the requests that staff claim not to find were most likely deleted by Shabago or Shalooonsh. This is pretty damning IMO. Even moreso than the runlogs getting deleted so "events older than 2 months cannot be investigated." A culture of unaccountability when it is useful. A lot of people are sick over Armageddon shutting down again. I want you to think about being in a situation like Bebop, where bad things are happening to you but to pursue accountability is to also risk alienation from the community. As so many of us have, here on the shadowboards. To insist that the staff team hold themselves accountable to the lip-service they pay to ameliorate these ethical issues: one would be forgiven for taking the staff team at their word, their projected image of ethics; and then also one would be forgiven to be scandalized after they asked for help with an honest heart from the staff team, and the request was rejected. I don't see the events around this Templar death being any condemnation of Bebop. I see it as a testament to the dysfunctionality that is wound up in the Armageddon community, with these opportunities for sponsored roles, account karma, and staff favor / animations / staff support in the pursuit of plots — all of these things are at risk if someone rocks the boat. There is a phenomenon that identifies this behavior in an Institution. It is called, "Organizational Silence". I encourage you to look it up. Why can Jerry Sandusky take advantage of 40 boys over the course of 15 years? Because the boys, and the witnesses, were instructed that they would suffer (in loss of agency, opportunity, or through stress inflicted on peers) if they came forward. I'm certainly not alleging that the Armageddon issue is as serious as the Penn State case: merely using this as an example of the phenomenon. Claude helps me define the term. When it became apparent that Bebop no longer had anything left to lose, Bebop no longer had any stake in the game that was the withholding factor of the announcement; and also, when Bebop was disheartened that any attempts to reach the right solution through the staff's invitations & methods, failed; then, Bebop came here! The producer team were poor stewards for allowing this to happen under their watch. I don't think that Usiku and Halaster were "evil" when they did that — I think they were reluctant and unprepared to face the idea that Shaloonsh was a predator, and that they were enabling him. And he was such a good writer, too.
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 113
|
Post by delirium on Oct 23, 2024 14:11:30 GMT -5
Even now, I have the impulse, albeit faint, to make a carefully thought-out post listing my observations of various issues and suggestions for improvement. The old me would have, and then inevitably spiraled when what seemed glaringly obvious was dismissed by staff, and thought "well, maybe if I rephrase it..."
I was not always right, of course. Sometimes I leapt to conclusions, sometikes personalities clashed, sometimes I got emotionally invested in an outcome and only realized it later, sometimes the foibles of text communication got in the way.
None of that changes the real damage that staff behavior was doing to my mental health, or the fact that my apologies for said mistakes were weaponized against me, or the wisdom of my decision to quit.
Many of the game's issues would have been avoidable if there was real transparency and collaboration between staff and players. Abuse thrives behind iron curtains.
All that is to say I'm hardly shocked that the staffing model remained broken, that nobody learned any lessons, and that even now, accountability is non-existent. Radical, systematic change was needed, but staff settled for cosmetic changes, then blamed the inevitable collapse on anything but the actual root causes.
ArmageddonMUD had its glory days but all things come to an end, some things not nearly as swiftly as they should have.
And I say good riddance.
|
|
alleys
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by alleys on Oct 23, 2024 14:22:28 GMT -5
I think it's a good point to make that, everyone that came "here" and stayed here, had something to say, was someone that got burned by Arm in some way or another. First it was Jcarter getting burned by Nyr, "make your own forum". Then the dialogue around claiming the forbidden knowledge like branching paths from the insider-clique, turned to the indignities and unfairness shown to people. This was a place for someone to come and define their injury in a (so far) uncensorable way: it's the way that the Mumble gang was logging in every night, sharing their injuries that they felt over the investment and love they put into this game, the hurt that came from being burned by it. We helped each other get through those sick feelings: it felt good to not be alone, to not be insane, to not be singularly anomalistic in how much hurt we felt over the game. And the more that came to light, the more sure we all could be that — it's not a fluke, and it's not that someone "deserved" it. The system itself was broken, the culture was broken. Really, the Shadowboard is a support group. If there was one point of feedback that I could supply that would have the most impact over the past years of the game, it would have been... It would be nice if the Armageddon community had not necessitated the Shadowboards. Here is another point. Probably it would be better to feel lonely for a while over something trival like a game and forgetting it all together then continously thinking, tinkering and speaking over it for many many years turning it something more then a simple hobby.
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 113
|
Post by delirium on Oct 23, 2024 14:29:58 GMT -5
Counterpoint: it wasn't the loss of the game by itself, it was the community. You might as well ask why people didn't simply ghost an entire group of friends and acquaintances whom they gamed with for 5, 10, 20 years when something bad happened - and still, some did.
|
|
punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
|
Post by punished ppurg on Oct 23, 2024 14:47:10 GMT -5
Here is another point. Probably it would be better to feel lonely for a while over something trival like a game and forgetting it all together then continously thinking, tinkering and speaking over it for many many years turning it something more then a simple hobby. I respect your argument. You have an opportunity here to establish a rather strong rhetorical win for your position if you followed through with your own advice and forgot about Armageddon altogether.
|
|
mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,689
Member is Online
|
Post by mehtastic on Oct 23, 2024 14:47:45 GMT -5
I think it's a good point to make that, everyone that came "here" and stayed here, had something to say, was someone that got burned by Arm in some way or another. First it was Jcarter getting burned by Nyr, "make your own forum". Then the dialogue around claiming the forbidden knowledge like branching paths from the insider-clique, turned to the indignities and unfairness shown to people. This was a place for someone to come and define their injury in a (so far) uncensorable way: it's the way that the Mumble gang was logging in every night, sharing their injuries that they felt over the investment and love they put into this game, the hurt that came from being burned by it. We helped each other get through those sick feelings: it felt good to not be alone, to not be insane, to not be singularly anomalistic in how much hurt we felt over the game. And the more that came to light, the more sure we all could be that — it's not a fluke, and it's not that someone "deserved" it. The system itself was broken, the culture was broken. Really, the Shadowboard is a support group. If there was one point of feedback that I could supply that would have the most impact over the past years of the game, it would have been... It would be nice if the Armageddon community had not necessitated the Shadowboards. Here is another point. Probably it would be better to feel lonely for a while over something trival like a game and forgetting it all together then continously thinking, tinkering and speaking over it for many many years turning it something more then a simple hobby. You Armageddon fans love to tell people to just move on and forget about it, then act surprised when all the people you told to move on, happen to end up in the same place.
Yet you still can't quite put your finger on why Armageddon and its community try to sweep so many players under the rug.
Either you're purposefully being obtuse or you genuinely lack the intelligence and empathy to figure it out.
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 113
|
Post by delirium on Oct 23, 2024 14:49:36 GMT -5
p.s. staff should read up on trust thermocline theory. It's not a perfect analogy but it's broadly applicable.
|
|
alleys
Clueless newb
Posts: 87
|
Post by alleys on Oct 23, 2024 15:03:02 GMT -5
Delirium, Seriously I don't get it, probably because I never built a network of friends through online gaming and communities. I am not in contact from ARM community IRL other then one or two from my university from 20+ years ago whom I hardly ever share a word or two. For some people here, I guess game being down is helpful getting rid of their bad memories. If so then I am glad for those.
punished ppurg I am not into that blame game. It will end shortly anyway. I just feel sorry you know. It's a bit nostalgia taking of me, writing down these unneccesary arguments which are pointless. I played I don't know maybe 200+ days worth along many years. Whenever I got bored, I returned and enjoyed a written RP game for several weeks. It was something reminding me of my younger days I guess. And it's no more. I am just sorry for losing a small personal sanctuary.. like a corner cafe from my past is closed if you will.
|
|
eugene
Clueless newb
Posts: 112
|
Post by eugene on Oct 23, 2024 15:12:11 GMT -5
Armageddon’s a sinking ship because it sheltered cheaters, abusers, and lied to its player base for years—despite being repeatedly shown evidence of wrongdoing. As an outsider, this is what sort of amazes me: even in the 2000's, Armageddon had this reputation. Are these people really this dense?
|
|
hates2
staff puppet account
Posts: 42
|
Post by hates2 on Oct 23, 2024 15:16:54 GMT -5
Alleys, people can have empathy for you losing something you enjoyed. Somehow, though, it's like you lack the empathy for the people who did not end with a positive experience from Armageddon. Have you created a checklist for how people should get over a bad experience and you are now upset that people have not completed enough of the checklist to satisfy you?
|
|
bebop
Clueless newb
Posts: 131
|
Post by bebop on Oct 23, 2024 15:31:34 GMT -5
When it became apparent that Bebop no longer had anything left to lose, Bebop no longer had any stake in the game that was the withholding factor of the announcement; and also, when Bebop was disheartened that any attempts to reach the right solution through the staff's invitations & methods, failed; then, Bebop came here! The producer team were poor stewards for allowing this to happen under their watch. I don't think that Usiku and Halaster were "evil" when they did that — I think they were reluctant and unprepared to face the idea that Shaloonsh was a predator, and that they were enabling him. And he was such a good writer, too. This but just wanted to add to something that people may forget or not realize. Shalooonsh took pictures outside of the building I lived and worked in, in a small Midwest city's downtown even though I hadn't seen or spoken to him in over five years. Yes, not having the game would have sucked but I was at actual real risk of being impacted in real life by this unsettling behavior. Shalooonsh used to walk around my block and befriend my neighbors and estranged family members to keep tabs on me. I only knew this man in person like one real life year. This sort of behavior went on for several years, increasingly online, intermittently in person. Most probably don't realize this, but I didn't come forward until about six months after I left the state he was living in/near. Not only did I not care if I was expunged from the game, I finally felt at a physically safe distance and emotionally supported in real life. Because of those things, I didn't have to worry about my real life being impacted anymore or that my place of business/home would be visited if I came forward. As I've emphasized, there have been real life repercussions to the other staff empowering him to use Armageddon MUD as his conduit for connecting with players and triangulating them into online and in-person abuse.
|
|
delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 113
|
Post by delirium on Oct 23, 2024 15:44:41 GMT -5
After reading the whole thread:
Open communication and accountability were required to fix the rotten community. That was too tall an ask and its been far too late for a long time.
Even now, the cry is "I didn't know!"?
Considering the entire scope of events, that's a woefully hollow defense.
If your plot hooks can be ruined by people knowing about them, they're bad plots. OOC communication is the scapegoat, not the root problem.
I talked to maybe 3-5 people semi regularly, and even fewer now, and I still had to deal with people telling me shit sometimes. You know what I did? I kept it separate and focused on what kind of story I wanted to tell. If people play to win at the expense of others, address that issue by rewarding those who don't. You will never win if you try to control what cannot be controlled. It's self-defeating.
|
|