nobody
Clueless newb
Posts: 82
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Post by nobody on Dec 8, 2023 8:13:57 GMT -5
That was a nice read about Maristen. I wish I got south more as Kradj Kurac but I mostly dealt with Siamaca. She and Macian were good to deal with. Did you ever get north cause I can't remember if I dealt with you when I was Rhodran Winrothol? What happened to the axle on the argosy was super lame, and typical for staff at the time to just ruin player fun. I remember the Salarri at the time trying to organise trips to Cenyr and everytime shut down by fire gourd gith. The meteor crash site plot fizzled when the Salarri Crew Leader and her mate got imm killed or stored for killing another Salarri I think it was, and when Macian got too old it died.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Dec 8, 2023 11:03:11 GMT -5
A notable point raised on the GDB about the turnover of staffers in the game: the "we can't find enough staffers" argument. It's really the bottom of the barrel, isn't it? I mean at this point, the "good" potential staffers have ethical reservations about contributing to the staff team: or the game in general.
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Post by gringoose on Dec 8, 2023 11:30:17 GMT -5
A notable point raised on the GDB about the turnover of staffers in the game: the "we can't find enough staffers" argument. It's really the bottom of the barrel, isn't it? I mean at this point, the "good" potential staffers have ethical reservations about contributing to the staff team: or the game in general. That makes sense. And at this point anybody that wanted to be a staffer already is one or was one. Even pinkerdlu is a burnt out staffer.
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Post by ohmygravy on Dec 8, 2023 11:36:18 GMT -5
The game had a remarkable run, even considering all the bad and all the toxicity, and I think it could have soldiered on running on fumes for 5-10 more years but this is really just the end.
They'll almost certainly do one season if only because the people who forced this change will probably will that to happen simply to try to prove they were right all along. But it'll take several more months than they're promising as anyone who has any experience with a coding project or Armageddon staff should know. Time estimates are always wildly low and the enthusiasm to implement this change will fade quickly.
Even if you put aside all of the remarkable toxicity and horrible shit that's gone down and how much loathing exists between staff and playerbase, it's kind of remarkable that the game lasted as long as it did.
Frankly, I think it's just straight up delusional to think that an RPI mud will significantly grow its playerbase in 2023. A daily high of 40+ players was actually pretty good, all things considered, and they'll never see it again because probably close to half of their current playerbase doesn't want this and a lot of whatever % is left will stop paying attention as the months of it being shut down wear on.
I don't know why I didn't just realize what this really is from the start - it's Armagddon shutting down for all intents and purposes because there's no reality where they get back to the daily highs they had in November, as underwhelming as those numbers may seem.
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Dec 8, 2023 12:06:40 GMT -5
A notable point raised on the GDB about the turnover of staffers in the game: the "we can't find enough staffers" argument. It's really the bottom of the barrel, isn't it? I mean at this point, the "good" potential staffers have ethical reservations about contributing to the staff team: or the game in general. That makes sense. And at this point anybody that wanted to be a staffer already is one or was one. Even pinkerdlu is a burnt out staffer. I disagree about the staff statement. There are a bunch of people that could have made great staff, including me. My mindset prior to being pkilled by Aromit was to play Larimar for a year or so, move on to a templar, maybe a sorc or psion then apply for staff. I've never applied for staff and I have serious issues with imposter syndrome, even though I have great accomplishments in general, it can at times feel like I am not good enough. It's a good thing that things ended up as they did, I don't think Arm deserves even a minute of my time anymore, but don't get things muddled, for there was a time that I wanted to run the game and implement my ideas. Seeing myself as the top selection on the GDB poll put a smile on my face, as much as they hate me at the top I'm still the people's champion and I think I always will be.
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Post by poorimpulsecontrol on Dec 8, 2023 12:56:18 GMT -5
Hah! I missed that wacky gdb caper. I would have voted for you.
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Dec 8, 2023 13:51:56 GMT -5
Delerak do you remember Larimar killing Canvas? Damn, we could have been buddies. Alas.
She had literally just killed a gaj that RL day haha
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delerak
GDB Superstar
PK'ed by jcarter
"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth." - Otto Von Bismarck
Posts: 1,670
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Post by delerak on Dec 8, 2023 13:55:10 GMT -5
Delerak do you remember Larimar killing Canvas? Damn, we could have been buddies. Alas. She had literally just killed a gaj that RL day haha You played Canvas? Damn. Of course I remember, Larimar only killed 3-4 PCs and Canvas was probably the one I as a player regretted. Ultimately I had to, Canvas didn't seem interested in talking anything out and when you arrived to the scrub I saw you trying to throw a spear and was pretty paranoid about peraine at the time so I had to do something.. sorry
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my2sids
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 341
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Post by my2sids on Dec 8, 2023 13:57:24 GMT -5
Delerak do you remember Larimar killing Canvas? Damn, we could have been buddies. Alas. She had literally just killed a gaj that RL day haha You played Canvas? Damn. Of course I remember, Larimar only killed 3-4 PCs and Canvas was probably the one I as a player regretted. Ultimately I had to, Canvas didn't seem interested in talking anything out and when you arrived to the scrub I saw you trying to throw a spear and was pretty paranoid about peraine at the time so I had to do something.. sorry Yeah no problem! I made a mechanical mistake by trying to throw - didn't have weapon of choice equipped when you rolled in and had to deal with big hits while dealing with throw lag, hehe. Canvas wasn't really interested in becoming an ally, nah. She was just gonna throw a spear and tell Larimar to scram. She was solo'ing bahamets and mammoth kryl at the time, had just killed a gaj 2 hours prior - I wasn't really thinking about the danger as a player, tbh. You'd think I'd identify that "muls are super dangerous opponents" while currently playing one, but alas. That's muls for ya! edit: I went on to play Ellenoire Terash after that so I was really content with moving on, anyway. It was fun while it lasted on Canvas.
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punished ppurg
GDB Superstar
Why are we still here? Just to suffer?
Posts: 1,098
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Post by punished ppurg on Dec 8, 2023 14:07:09 GMT -5
That makes sense. And at this point anybody that wanted to be a staffer already is one or was one. Even pinkerdlu is a burnt out staffer. I disagree about the staff statement. There are a bunch of people that could have made great staff, including me. Absolutely, there are yet still good (exemplary) Arm players that have not had their shot on the staff team. You could include me on there. I would staff up Arm in a heartbeat. The difference being is that these people, like you or me or whoever is conscientious enough, don't get selected for the game. We wouldn't get selected because of our "infamy", but even in a perfect world where we have spotless records- there's something more to it, more personality based. It's like looking at a shadow, but you can see it if you squint: there are certain driving personality factors that the staff team simply does not select for. How can we conceptualize what the staff team is lacking? Every now and then I think back to the story pinkerdlu told me while he was on staff; he was brought on with a fellow new trial guy, who had one driving vision: he wanted to create some sort of long-forgotten dwarf clan that he had been part of when he was playing like a decade ago. This priority was bizarre, distracting, not what the game needed at that point in time. But it was utterly soul-crushing for there to be all of these systemic issues with Armageddon, and on your flank your fellow newbie staffer is dedicated to creating dwarf clan content. The fire is there, and people are willfully ignorant of it - as opposed to trying to address it. pinkerdlu tells the story better than I do. But to the original point. It's not that Arm has run out of potential staffers: it's that they've run out of potential staffers that the current clique is content in raising, and accepting. Assuming that the rumor about the entirety of the staff team was not made aware of the Seasons change before Halaster announced it, it then follows that there is a clique inside the clique: the ones that are actually pulling the strings, and then the busyworkers are the lessers that aren't privy to important things. This elitist approach to game management is how the highest-ups end up rupturing and ruining the trust that the lowbie volunteers are putting into the system: trust is a two-way process on a staff team. If your lowbies see that their opinions don't matter, and that they're not brought into discussions on important things? Anyone with self-respect is going to wander elsewhere; and what's going to be left are the staffers with dark personality traits that are detrimental to the game: we can all list those staffers, we've known them and seen them and dealt with them and had our investment & trust in Armageddon ruptured by them, sometimes carelessly and sometimes maliciously. But the actual health of the game is suffering because of this staff culture: player numbers are going down because of this staff culture. There was an ethical argument to be made when Shalooonsh and Shabago were still around, that a competent person contributing to Armageddon in any capacity (whether they're a staffer or just a player), that competent person's content may, potentially, be weighing on a victimized person's internal scale, and persuading them to continue to participate in an environment where they are being OOCly victimized. Isn't that a dangerous thought? Explore it to the end. Good players, by virtue of being good and providing good content, fuel an environment where abusers can function, can flourish; and it is the roots of those good players, the experiences they've brought to the telnet port, that keep the victim holding on for a little while longer while the victimizers still churn. Really, it becomes an ethical dilemma: do I continue to participate in a system where my good works are captivating fellow players to continue subjecting themselves to the cruelty of this clique? A lot of people opt out.
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Post by uncoolio on Dec 8, 2023 15:00:37 GMT -5
I wonder what the atmosphere among staff is like right now. Most players are against this project, so it stands to reason that some of the staff must be, too. Add the fact that most of them were allegedly kept in the dark about the project until it was revealed by the in-group. That's gotta sting, too. Those staffers must now work on a project that they hate, with colleagues who don't trust them, for a playerbase that is in open rebellion because they oppose the project. Why would anybody remain on staff under such conditions? Doing work you don't want done for people who don't want it done, under the direction of fellow staff members who didn't consider you good enough to include in the decisionmaking process. Yowzer.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 8, 2023 16:08:08 GMT -5
A lot of the staff are dull "company man" types. I think their disappointment is vastly overestimated. Sure, there are some disappointed STs... but by and large, they were completely disrespected by the Producers and think "yeah it makes sense they didn't tell us! it was for the good of the game" because they like the idea of being staff more than they care about the people playing it or the legacy that former players left behind.
That said there is definitely a clique within a clique. It's just that the out-group does not respect themselves enough to stand up for themselves.
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mehtastic
GDB Superstar
Armers Anonymous sponsor
Posts: 1,695
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 8, 2023 18:28:14 GMT -5
Day 3. If you squint hard enough you can almost see the playerbase going through the stages of grief.
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Post by uncoolio on Dec 8, 2023 19:57:29 GMT -5
It's pretty much peak time right now, on a Friday night, and there's ten players on.
Armageddon is officially dead, and the only hope left (if one cares enough to hope) is that the season revives the game. It's no longer an ailing game that needs improvements, it's a dead game that needs to be resurrected. Its future rests entirely with a project that most players are against, that no work has yet been done on, and has - to my knowledge - never been attempted by any RPI ever, so nobody knows if the idea is even viable.
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Post by ohmygravy on Dec 8, 2023 21:50:46 GMT -5
I'll be surprised if season one happens before March.
And after the first season the shutdown between seasons will take even longer.
Then, in late 2025 or so, there will be some announcement about Armageddon Classic coming back or some shit. A bunch of the top imms will be MIA and it'll be some longsuffering storytellers or whatever the hell they're called now hoping they can get the game up to as much as 20 players on a Friday night.
They pulled the plug, just not sure how long it'll take for the death rattle.
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