mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 6, 2023 7:01:12 GMT -5
Also, random thought I will just throw out there:
Armageddon Seasons is an idea born from the decline of the playerbase and the growing inability to actually fill the gameworld with players. Additionally, staff are too stretched thin.
The single biggest decline in the playerbase came from the complete mishandling of Shalooonsh and driving away dozens of players rather than do anything about the elephant in the room. The driving away of players did not only occur towards the end of Shalooonsh's tenure in the game, but all throughout his tenure, with players and staff members silently leaving after watching in horror as the game continued to defend and retain him. From the time the staff pushed Nergal away because he proposed Shalooonsh be punished for his misbehavior, to the time Shabago allowed themselves to be debased by Shalooonsh's request to make his firing look like a voluntary departure.
Ergo, all the people that supported Malifaxis/Shalooonsh over the years, declaring him a good writer, a necessity to keep around in the game, a driving force behind plots, etc. are at least partially responsible for this outcome. From the current and former staff that defended Shalooonsh, to the players that were part of Malifaxis's clique, you all made this happen.
So good job, guys. I sincerely hope you get what you worked towards.
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nobody
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Post by nobody on Dec 6, 2023 7:40:32 GMT -5
Malifaxis was fucking awful to watch as staff, and when I found out he was Shalooonsh I was dumbfounded. Armageddon maybe does deserve to just die, but its bs as I can see so many ways to fix it and could do so much with it's codebase.
At least Arm forcing me away permanently will get me enthusiastic to be working on my own project again, and I won't keep getting distracted by going back to play.
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ask
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Post by ask on Dec 6, 2023 7:48:24 GMT -5
Also, random thought I will just throw out there: Armageddon Seasons is an idea born from the decline of the playerbase and the growing inability to actually fill the gameworld with players. Additionally, staff are too stretched thin.
The single biggest decline in the playerbase came from the complete mishandling of Shalooonsh and driving away dozens of players rather than do anything about the elephant in the room. The driving away of players did not only occur towards the end of Shalooonsh's tenure in the game, but all throughout his tenure, with players and staff members silently leaving after watching in horror as the game continued to defend and retain him. From the time the staff pushed Nergal away because he proposed Shalooonsh be punished for his misbehavior, to the time Shabago allowed themselves to be debased by Shalooonsh's request to make his firing look like a voluntary departure. Ergo, all the people that supported Malifaxis/Shalooonsh over the years, declaring him a good writer, a necessity to keep around in the game, a driving force behind plots, etc. are at least partially responsible for this outcome. From the current and former staff that defended Shalooonsh, to the players that were part of Malifaxis's clique, you all made this happen. So good job, guys. I sincerely hope you get what you worked towards. Hey, I love you, but that bold part -- I can't really delete well while I'm on the phone to hone in on it visually -- is that true, or are you being facetious? I ask because I ran all three GMHs while staff for a few months and I never once felt stretched too thin. It's more that none of these people know how to manage their time or resources. There is no project management. There is no goal that anyone is working towards. Almost every MUD and sometimes MUSHes suffers from this fate: no one wants to do work that they don't care for. People will always claim, "Oh, but they're volunteers!" I hate to tell them, or anyone who has not actually volunteered anywhere ever, but, when you volunteer somewhere, you are usually given directives. You can't just roll up to a Habitat for Humanity work site and do whatever you want. You're instructed on what the goal is for that day. You don't just roll up to a soup kitchen and start throwing biscuits at people. You don't volunteer at a low income salvage store and give stuff away for free. There is always structure, and MUD staff has, by and large, not had this. I think the last time that I experienced this as a staffer was when I worked at Atonement building. I was told we needed x done by y date, and I got it done. I just hate the volunteer malarkey. People volunteer to play the game too. It's just disingenuous.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 6, 2023 7:55:55 GMT -5
Yeah I meant to say that staff's excuse for all of this is "staff and players are too stretched thin". Not being facetious per se, but I don't personally buy into the staff arguing that they are stretched thin. They have more than enough people to do the job, but no direction and poor management, like you say.
I do genuinely believe the playerbase is too small for the size of the world though, but that's a self-inflicted wound.
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Patuk
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Post by Patuk on Dec 6, 2023 8:14:13 GMT -5
About a year or so ago, my character was playing in Kadius. We didn't have many people in it (who the fuck wants to play in Kadius?), we didn't have huge ambitions, but we had a huge line of scents and nowhere to sell them and so the merchant of the time decided we were gonna open a perfume shop in Tuluk.
Tuluk has a noble house that does construction, Tenneshi. Tenneshi had a noble in it. The noble signed off on it all after payment- great! Fantastic!
But nothing came of this. Months passed, literal months, before we even got a brick. Staff are stretched thin, you see, there aren't enough of them.
They can read fifty reports. They can cover for the sexual abusers among them. They can dole out bans and mod around on Discord and browbeat people into believing that SURELY it's all on them-
But an afternoon's work to open up a lousy god damn shop? No sir. Not enough people. We need to, um, focus. To, uh, downsize.
Maybe the world is too big. Maybe things are stretched toot hin. But, frankly, I don't trust the people who can't open a stupid shop to care for that. It's a little telling that the past two staff announcements have been 'we get to play cool shit again btw(staff can now be psions)' and 'you won't get to play cool shit again btw(karma changes)'.
Had a good run though, I guess. I'll be very surprised if this works out with the MUD surviving, let alone something good happening here.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 6, 2023 9:30:57 GMT -5
This idea would be an easier sell in a game where the staff are actually actively supporting player plots. "This is working, but there are also serious flaws with our organizational model, so we're going to do this a different way."
In this scenario, the staff are flailing, unwilling to put the work in to support the game, and their promise of future support in a seasonal model is just "trust us bro". They have done nothing to prove they are competent at running any game at all, let alone one that will radically change in 2 months max.
I foresee a successful spinoff game or two from players who can actually put the time into developing one, as opposed to whatever this is.
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jenki
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Post by jenki on Dec 6, 2023 10:39:27 GMT -5
My first thoughts are 'Why?' They've got a perfectly good platform to tell their stories. Is there some shortage of creativity that makes them need to go back to reboot the lore of the past? I understand that reboots are very popular but why are they successful? If they want to just trash the world and create a whole new world, it's make more sense to me to go forward in time to create a different setting than go backwards. It even make more sense to do time travel storylines.
I agree with those saying that pulling the plug in the game as it is will be bad. There's a lot of truth when people call it Crackageddon, it's addictive. When players stop playing they'll go get their fix somewhere else and then over a few months (or more) will realize they're really liking where they are. They may look back and try the new game but they won't want to waste the time to relearn the new game world and new lore, in a way starting over with the new learning curve.
Depending on who's running the show and the dedication of their team, this just might be it.
Watch out MUD community the dam is going to burst and those ARM players are bringing Armageddon to your games.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 6, 2023 10:58:32 GMT -5
Watch out MUD community the dam is going to burst and those ARM players are bringing Armageddon to your games. Oh fuck I wasn't even thinking about this yesterday. Now I'm not laughing anymore.
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Post by uncoolio on Dec 6, 2023 11:12:12 GMT -5
And thus, in the year of our Lord 2024, the world of RPMU*s was destroyed by an unstoppable plague of socials and uncapitalized/unpunctuated speech. A bloodstained journal was found in the smoldering ruins of Arx, where a local's last dying recount of the calamity speaks of marauders saying things like "their gonna love us" while nodding repeatedly.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 6, 2023 19:31:37 GMT -5
It's been a day since the announcement. Let's check the MSSP stats: iberia.jdai.pt/mudstats/mud/armageddon_mudOh dear. If you thought the 40-person peak was a myth already, check out the 17-person peak today, with an average player count of 12.
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Post by blahblahblah on Dec 6, 2023 20:13:30 GMT -5
My first thought seeing the announcement was, "Armageddon: Seasons? Huh. Does it snow in Zalanthas?"
My next thought was, "Will Pets be next? Or, Ooooh! Or Nightlife! Are there gonna be vampires?!"
Jokes about The Sims aside, this is staff closing areas and clans without closing areas and clans. And 100 years into the future? Eeesh.
I feel bad for anyone that had any kind of lasting legacy in that game... what little was supported and aknowledged by jealous staffers of the past. That player footprint will likely be discarded, regardless what is being told to everyone now. When players see the tiny amount of a niche they managed to make for themselves in Zalanthas blasted away by obliviousness, disregard or simple disrespect, there will be a general and deeper pang of loss. I hope that I am wrong about that, but we have seen that there is little to no care given for proper record keeping by the staff.
I mean that pretty literally. If you think you mastercrafted that sword of awesome doom, according to the database, no you didn't. There are no records of character or player authorship in regards to past contributions to the game. Which is part of why people are not credited for anything. A fellow staff member told me, full chested, that he and another staffer had been scrubbing player information from items on the database because he didn't personally think it should be there. There is also no way to get back all the information that he deleted.
Honestly, I don't trust that there will be much left by the time this is done. Maybe they will have a backup for the game they were stewards of, before they tear into things and change them. Perhaps, they will simply create new bits of world for the purpose of this experiment, and section them away from the old. I find myself annoyed by the possibility because it feels as if something treasured was stolen from the general MUD community, tarnished, and left to languish. Now we get to see carrion picking over bits of the corpse.
I kinda wish they had just handed the code to others graciously and stepped aside. My heart actually aches for what is about to happen to those thousands of rooms and memories. How selfish.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Dec 6, 2023 20:48:52 GMT -5
"And they were like, 'Please spare us! The game is running well enough already!' Hilarious. I love this job." - Halaster
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Post by Azerbanjani on Dec 7, 2023 0:10:36 GMT -5
Honestly I see a lot of these ideas as really good, I just think staff will probably fuck it up. Everyone is going 'They are ruining the roleplay!' but, and I may be the autist out of wack here, ...I've always gotten really dog shit roleplay from Armageddon?
It's always been One hour long roleplay scene that may or may not be interesting. Grind for 23 hours Try to find another one hour roleplay scene. Grind for 25 hours. Try not to fall into a death room. Argue with staff in the request tool about some basic shit. Have a funny 15 minute roleplay scene. 50 more hours of grinding.
Like. Armageddon play has been fucking dog shit for me, and it could entirely be my fault. But I don't think I'm particularly bothered by losing a character in *checks notes* 6-10 months or so? That's generally how long people are going to live anyway. I do see issues with making people want to hop on in the latter half of the season though. They could offer skill bonuses (Hey staff, where the fuck are the age bonuses to skills the code mentions thats been in the game forever?) and other aspects.
But if staff is actually taking what they are saying seriously. More agency amongst players and what not. Leaving lasting impressions. It'd be cool.
Being stored is lame though, full stop. Let me play an old fuck version of my character for the first few weeks before I croak. OR play a dwarf that casually lives 2 seasons cause STRONG AS FUCK DWARF BOIS.
Armageddon isn't some peak roleplaying machine it's a barely functional combat mud with perma death that people sex roleplay on. These changes support moving things to a more story driven system. If you don't like it, power to you. Will I like it? Probably not I fucking hate staff.
Despite it all. I sit back and look a few posts above. And see 'Staff took literal months for me to make progress on a simple stand' and I think "Yep, they suck"
Anyway I build on Apoc now. This isn't an ad. It's a retrospection. If someone puts an item in on Apoc I get to see it. I can pop in on my builder. I can make the item in less than ten minutes if I give a shit, probably a lot less. So why when I put in a request to make items in armageddon it takes them a fucking week before I get a message back? And I only have one a fucking month? What are they doing in that request tool? Are they divining whether or not my item should work using seer stones? Are they sending each other physical letters asking for permission? Do they lose internet for a week in a freak accident everytime I send in a craft? The fuck is going on in there.
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Post by uncoolio on Dec 7, 2023 2:03:36 GMT -5
Honestly I see a lot of these ideas as really good, I just think staff will probably fuck it up. Everyone is going 'They are ruining the roleplay!' but, and I may be the autist out of wack here, ...I've always gotten really dog shit roleplay from Armageddon? It's always been One hour long roleplay scene that may or may not be interesting. Grind for 23 hours Try to find another one hour roleplay scene. Grind for 25 hours. Try not to fall into a death room. Argue with staff in the request tool about some basic shit. Have a funny 15 minute roleplay scene. 50 more hours of grinding. Like. Armageddon play has been fucking dog shit for me, and it could entirely be my fault. But I don't think I'm particularly bothered by losing a character in *checks notes* 6-10 months or so? That's generally how long people are going to live anyway. I do see issues with making people want to hop on in the latter half of the season though. They could offer skill bonuses (Hey staff, where the fuck are the age bonuses to skills the code mentions thats been in the game forever?) and other aspects. But if staff is actually taking what they are saying seriously. More agency amongst players and what not. Leaving lasting impressions. It'd be cool. Being stored is lame though, full stop. Let me play an old fuck version of my character for the first few weeks before I croak. OR play a dwarf that casually lives 2 seasons cause STRONG AS FUCK DWARF BOIS. Armageddon isn't some peak roleplaying machine it's a barely functional combat mud with perma death that people sex roleplay on. These changes support moving things to a more story driven system. If you don't like it, power to you. Will I like it? Probably not I fucking hate staff. Despite it all. I sit back and look a few posts above. And see 'Staff took literal months for me to make progress on a simple stand' and I think "Yep, they suck Yeah. Ever since Nyr installed his weirdly totalitarian red-tape philosophy, the game has been on a downward trajectory. It's been about a decade of that, now. It used to be better back in the 2004-08 era (though the Reborn farce was a large blemish on that period), and then it had a few years where it was losing its mojo but still in relatively decent shape. Then the rot truly set in and Arm became a parody of itself. Nyr launched a two-pronged attack on the playerbase: 1) He was just a piece of shit, a truly awful human being who was impossible to reason with. Anyone who has had the displeasure of communicating with him directly can probably attest to the fact that he was very likely a legitimate narcissist whose primary goal in any interaction was to make the other party feel bad. He'd look for any reason to scold, punish or otherwise shit on you, often for no real reason. He needed to put others down in order to make himself feel bigger. This created a huge rift between players and staff, with many players growing embittered. Some quit, others stayed but adopted a distrust and antipathy towards staff. This was, of course, felt by the staff, some of whom came to loathe the playerbase in return. It created an 'us vs them' mentality from both sides. This has gotten better in recent years, but there's still some of that stink left. 2) He wanted to be in control of everything. His infamous red tape bogged the game down with stifling bureaucracy. His default approach to any and all player efforts was to look for a way to say no and turn them down, and even if he didn't formally reject your request for assistance, he would either stall until your character was gone or find some other way to prevent you from doing what you wanted. Former staffers have said that the same applied to them, forcing them to ask his permission for anything they wanted to do, and often getting told no if he could contrive to see the slightest fault with whatever they proposed. As a result, the game ground to a halt and Arm entered what I like to call the Nothing's Fucking Happening era. The game never got out from under that. It just drained the entire community's energy. Because of these things, a lot of the good players quit, the ones who had the drive and ability to do noteworthy things. Players with standards found other places to spend their time. Many of those who remained were of the type who are content to just live in a simulated world where basic activities like hunting and crafting are enough to satisfy them. They're the ones who will respond to complaints of stagnation with "what are you talking about? I'm having a blast," and then their version of fun gameplay is logging in to hunt, then craft something useless out of the shit they skinned from the animal, and then log off. There was another group that also remained: the ones to whom the whole RPI thing was a sidenote, something to lend a sense of gravity to their joy of PKing or the pride of having the most skilled warrior in all the land. These two demographic now made up the majority of the playerbase. It's no surprise, then, that the roleplay turned to shit. Half the playerbase had no concept of meaningful, worthwhile roleplay and the other half didn't really take it very seriously in the first place. The small minority of good players who still remained found it increasingly hopeless, and in some cases they joined one of those two majorities because it was at least a way to justify playing. They stand out as the rare individuals who can actually emote, portray a believable character, behave realistically and so on, but they've largely given up trying to actually accomplish anything because today's Arm is like a cooking show where the chef tells you to make a filet mignon but hands you a packet of wheat toast and an onion as the ingredients you have at your disposal. No matter how much you love filet mignon, you can't make it out of toast and onion, so why even take the trouble to try? When I see the GDBers wailing about losing their current PCs, or having to say goodbye to their "story" every year and a half or however long a season lasts, I shake my head and wonder what the hell it is they're clinging to. Do they cherish the current state of Arm so much? Do they think it's so great that they would rather stick with that than try something that sounds like it could genuinely be really cool? My doubts about this project don't stem from the plan that staff has presented, because I think it would be great if it panned out. My doubt is in their ability to actually get it done. It's much more likely that this three-month downtime turns to four, five, then six months, and then one day they announce that it fell apart and they're finally pulling the plug. Still, it's not as if the current state of Arm is worth preserving. If they can't make the game interesting as it is, they might as well have a crack at doing something innovative. Who knows, maybe they can actually pull it off.
In spite of all the game's crippling problems, Arm always had one thing going for it: it was actually a pretty good 'text-based Skyrim' exprience. It's got a certain Dark Souls aspect to its gameplay, and the resource-gathering survival element that is currently popular in conventional gaming, with the added potential (even if rarely realised) to provide the occasional bit of interesting roleplay. Developing a character's skills and material possessions can be as satisfying as doing the same in a regular RPG, and while the code is ancient and riddled with terrible design, there's something fascinating about figuring out its intricacies and leveraging them to your advantage in order to survive and thrive. That's one thing I've never found in any other RPI. The roleplay on Arm is trash-tier and has been for a decade, but I can occasionally appreciate the game the same way that I enjoy playing Fallout 4 in Survival mode. If anyone knows Project 1999, an emulation of classic Everquest in its original state, they'll know what I mean. Or Old School Runescape, for that matter. Armageddon fits right in with that niche of gaming. It's satisfying to overcome the jank and succeed.
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jkarr
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Post by jkarr on Dec 7, 2023 3:57:08 GMT -5
Personally I think they should just pull the plug. I was cautiously optimistic about a rework previously. But now? I just can't expect anyone to work under the abuse this community will put out. In fact the thought of it appalls me. A lot of you simply disgust me. lololol
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