jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Mar 5, 2023 1:19:54 GMT -5
. This entire story all unravels like a brilliant Shakespearen comedy. Looked at from that angle, it's a masterpiece! can we go with tragic comedy? Or dark comedy? It's like one baby step forward (the apology, though it didn't address apologies for not believing us about Blaze's behavior, just that they were aware of the "allegations"), but then big step back by piling on returning staff who have proved of questionable at best behavior. Not all are bad actors but even one returning to the fold after the Blaze debacle just makes me Big Fucking Sigh. Yeah I was slightly impressed at least with Halaster's willingness to acknowledge things directly, no more beating around the bush and just openly saying THIS EXACT STAFFER WAS A PROBLEM. But then it's immediately followed by bringing qwerty back on staff!?! For me it's, to use your turn of phrase, darkly comedic! Qwerty was allowed here by Arm staff because he was also on staff, while others were banned for posting here at all. He was not only allowed but he admitted to being an obnoxious petulant troll for "experimental purposes".
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Patuk
Shartist
Posts: 439
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Post by Patuk on Mar 5, 2023 4:11:49 GMT -5
Eh, getting banned juuust for posting here was more of a Nergal thing. I post here under my account name and continue to be just fine.. Insofar this whole mess is fine in the first place, anyway.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 5, 2023 4:46:00 GMT -5
qwerty was posting here well after Nergal's departure, I think it's safe to say that qwerty / ForearmedLurker / Obtutus saw himself as an agent trying to sow discord for the glory of Armageddon. He made the ultimate sacrifice in service to his game. RIP bucko.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 5, 2023 4:58:50 GMT -5
On a more serious note I tend to agree with TedCruz in that bringing qwerty/ForearmedLurker onto staff was a very stupid move in light of everything that has happened. My guesses are: 1) Staff aren't aware that qwerty, ForearmedLurker, and Obtutus are all the same person, even though they all have the same writing style, same thoughts, etc. But now that they are aware, because we all know they obsessively read this forum while calling it the "derpboard" like it's still 1998, they'll do the "right thing" and feed Obtutus to the piranhas. 2) Since staff have "no way to verify things" and "only concern themselves with the Armageddon community" they basically give free reign to people like Dar / Obtutus / etc. to have a spot here, on Reddit, and on the Arm staff to be an attack dog. We already know how much staff love their attack dogs! I think #2 is more likely because staff are incredibly slow to cede ground and when they do, it's only under immense pressure, not a drive to do the right thing.
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jesantu
Displaced Tuluki
Posts: 339
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Post by jesantu on Mar 5, 2023 6:03:25 GMT -5
I post here under my account name and continue to be just fine. These days, sure. I don't think staff would dare intervene in a player posting here now. That doesn't negate the past however and it certainly should not be forgotten at a time like this.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 5, 2023 7:31:28 GMT -5
I mean there was already an attempt to change the messaging here with that weirdo pretending to be a leaker on staff. It's pretty clear that someone was very recently trying to discredit the stuff on this forum but gave up when they realized that posters here tend to be able to think critically and don't just huff whatever staff are farting.
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delirium
Clueless newb
grumpy cat
Posts: 89
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Post by delirium on Mar 5, 2023 13:35:59 GMT -5
My memory is a lot of easily insulted people who you can't say anything negative to/about without dreadful consequences to yourself/your character. Your memory is accurate.
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Post by rahnevyn on Mar 5, 2023 13:43:11 GMT -5
My memory is a lot of easily insulted people who you can't say anything negative to/about without dreadful consequences to yourself/your character. Your memory is accurate. Thirded. The end result of this on the staff side was an emotionally draining slog of trying to navigate the politics of not pissing people off and still trying to get anything done, while also trying to reduce the harm of the more egregious bad ideas from those with almost unilateral authority to implement them. On the plus side, I learned a lot of lessons which have been useful in my career in corporate life, so I guess there’s that.
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 5, 2023 14:38:53 GMT -5
"The Future of the GDB and Discord" per Halaster:
Before: Staff heavily overmoderate discussions to the point of rendering them useless After: Staff pressure players to heavily overmoderate discussions to the point of rendering them useless, if they wish to keep staff's favor. Other players blame the player moderators instead of staff.
I feel like if you sign up to be a player moderator you're basically signing up to be a human shield.
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Post by Azerbanjani on Mar 5, 2023 14:40:46 GMT -5
I will shit + cum if a 'player' is selected and its blatantly a staff alt
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delirium
Clueless newb
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Posts: 89
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Post by delirium on Mar 5, 2023 15:16:40 GMT -5
"The Future of the GDB and Discord" per Halaster: Before: Staff heavily overmoderate discussions to the point of rendering them useless After: Staff pressure players to heavily overmoderate discussions to the point of rendering them useless, if they wish to keep staff's favor. Other players blame the player moderators instead of staff. I feel like if you sign up to be a player moderator you're basically signing up to be a human shield. I was a player moderator for years and never found it necessary to moderate to even a percentage of what's going on currently. I also recused myself from moderation if I had strong feelings on the subject or was the target and asked someone else to handle it. Player moderation by responsible players does work, but only if staff stays hands off with the process and the moderators follow clear and responsible guidelines. I specifically asked to be removed from the Helper and moderator lists when I quit, but I was one of the only ones left from an experiment years ago. An experiment which worked, but probably only bc they chose from current helpers, had clear guidelines to prevent abuse which we could and did follow, and only a few of us actually stuck around, and probably the only one still active for 4-5 years was yours truly. So who knows how it'll pan out in this new iteration but if they stick to the original implementation, pick responsible players who aren't going to power trip (provided there are any left...), and then staff stays entirely hands off on moderating unless absolutely necessary, it might just work. It's cart before horse though, because first, the forum rules need an overhaul. I used the rules more as a guideline than a rulebook bc as they presently stand they're both too vague and don't allow for nuanced situations.
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Post by rahnevyn on Mar 5, 2023 15:18:58 GMT -5
Before: Staff heavily overmoderate discussions to the point of rendering them useless After: Staff pressure players to heavily overmoderate discussions to the point of rendering them useless, if they wish to keep staff's favor. Other players blame the player moderators instead of staff. I feel like if you sign up to be a player moderator you're basically signing up to be a human shield. The only way the model will work is if the overmoderation angle is addressed along with who is doing the moderating. Otherwise you're basically right, you're just adding an extra layer of people to defend an unsustainable core. Moderation should prioritize the health of the community first - meaning ruthlessly stomp out harassment, unwanted advances, creepy behavior, assaults on people's humanity, etc. A much lighter touch should be used to preserve the integrity of the game - which is, after all, a game, and has no feelings. In the past I have seen "don't share IC info" punished harder than "don't be a creep", which is I think why the game ended up where it is today. You also want who is doing the moderating to be someone who has people skills and is transparent, fair, and disinterested in their actions. You want to keep the favoritism issue off the table, or even the appearance of favoritism. That, uh... hasn't always been the case in the past.
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Post by ocotilloskewers on Mar 5, 2023 18:04:40 GMT -5
Meh, I think this is a good change. Keep in mind this is ArmageddonMUD, and these kinds of leaps are absolutely unheard of over the last 20 years. Seeing who got picked for mod gives me some encouragement. These people don't seem like pets at all. (EDIT: For example: Rahnevyn, awesome choice.) And if the storytellers and admins like the retired Hestia who has far too much time on her hands can't moderate anymore, that's just an all-out good thing. I guess we'll see how it pans out?
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mehtastic
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Post by mehtastic on Mar 5, 2023 18:43:05 GMT -5
I wish I shared your optimism but I've seen how this game handles gradual change. It commits to it for a little while and then something else explodes and completely bungles it. So I guess we'll see if the staff can control themselves for 4 months.
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Post by paladont on Mar 5, 2023 18:59:13 GMT -5
I was a player moderator for years and never found it necessary to moderate to even a percentage of what's going on currently. I have similar experience on a largish discord (800-900 online, who knows total). A healthy community is self-moderating. I can't imagine inheriting the responsibility of a large 10+ year old community that has no posted rules, no written expectations of moderator conduct, nothing. It's all been ad-hoc moderation since inception. All that was necessary to do was make timely, simple and understanding announcements and remove bad moderators to prevent community outrage. It seems brain-dead to not realize that. I think Halaster may be too boomer to understand how community works these days. Boomer is fine. Just don't go full boomer.
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